CDC: Full Reopening of Schools and Colleges Presents 'Highest Risk' for Spread of COVID-19
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Author Topic: CDC: Full Reopening of Schools and Colleges Presents 'Highest Risk' for Spread of COVID-19  (Read 972 times)
Frodo
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« on: July 11, 2020, 01:37:36 PM »
« edited: July 11, 2020, 02:15:58 PM by Virginia Yellow Dog »

Trump wants to sicken and kill teachers, school children, and college students for his re-election campaign:

Coronavirus: Internal CDC documents warn full reopening of schools is 'highest risk,' New York Times reports

Quote
Internal documents from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention warned that fully reopening K-12 schools and universities would be the "highest risk" for the spread of coronavirus, according to a New York Times report, as President Donald Trump and his administration push for students and teachers to return in-person to classrooms.

The 69-page document obtained by the Times marked "For Internal Use Only" was among materials for federal public health response teams deployed to coronavirus hotspots to help local public health officials handle the outbreak, the newspaper reported.

The document was circulated this week, the Times reported, as Trump slammed the CDC guidelines around reopening schools and he, Vice President Mike Pence and Education Secretary Betsy DeVos increased their pressure on schools to fully reopen by the fall.

It is unclear whether the President viewed the CDC document, according to the Times.
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SevenEleven
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« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2020, 01:56:27 PM »

Lots of teachers will be retiring or not returning to work should schools reopen in an unsafe way.
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Penn_Quaker_Girl
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« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2020, 02:01:56 PM »

PENN is doing a "hybrid semester" this Fall...whatever the hell that means.  
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Middle-aged Europe
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« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2020, 02:05:23 PM »

This is the tyranny of the Deep State. Trump needs to issue an executive order dissolving the CDC now. Tongue
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Inmate Trump
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« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2020, 02:08:45 PM »
« Edited: July 11, 2020, 02:14:23 PM by Chancellor Gowron »

The President is a racist, a sexist, a xenophobe, a homophobe, a transphobe....he’s also a scumbag who will be committing manslaughter by reopening too soon and sending children back to school.
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politicallefty
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« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2020, 02:11:51 PM »

How long before "Nobody knew the ChinaVirus could spread so easily in schools"?
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T'Chenka
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« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2020, 03:13:59 PM »

Many conservatives do NOT care. They want to live their lives the way they want to live their lives, PERIOD. Others dying because schools are open isn't THEIR problem.
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ProudModerate2
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« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2020, 04:43:17 PM »

Another day of waking-up and believing that all this trump-stupidity must have just been a bad dream.
Absolutely incredible!
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Hammy
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« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2020, 04:45:17 PM »

The President is a racist, a sexist, a xenophobe, a homophobe, a transphobe....he’s also a scumbag who will be committing manslaughter by reopening too soon and sending children back to school.

I would argue murder given he is doing this with malicious intent, as he's willing to let people die just to trigger the other side.
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Pericles
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« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2020, 04:50:13 PM »

I have mixed feelings about reopening schools given the risk of the spread is relatively low and children are a low-risk demographic, and being away from physical schooling has a lot of negative educational and social consequences. However if the virus is too prevalent then even relatively less risky measures like school reopenings will be too dangerous. So for states like Arizona, Florida and Texas it is a bad idea. However, it should be a priority for the government and definitely should be done before stuff like bar reopenings (which is much higher risk). I don't know exactly which states it would be safe in though.
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anthonyjg
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« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2020, 04:50:37 PM »

PENN is doing a "hybrid semester" this Fall...whatever the hell that means.  

I go to a regional college and they’re “embracing a learn from anywhere modality.” Pretty sure even the admin has absolutely no idea what the fall will look like.
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Koharu
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« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2020, 01:33:15 AM »

If we had enough teachers, what I wish could happen for K-8th:

- 1 teacher with 5 students
- Classrooms in various businesses/locations that aren't being used because of the virus to help lessen interaction at arrival time and virus spread via HVAC
- teacher teaches all subjects (like usual for lower elementary)
- paper sack lunches prepared by the district and picked up by the teacher
- high schoolers would unfortunately mostly get distance learning, but with breaks where physical activity is encouraged every day
- temperature checks every morning

However, we don't have enough teachers for 1 teacher to 30 students, let alone something like this that would basically make it like a small learning family and help reduce possible interactions if someone does have it. The lives of teachers, staff, at-risk family members, and the kids themselves aren't worth forcing this. Safety has to come first.

What I'd truly like is for every family to be given enough money for one parent/guardian to be home with kids and help them with school, as well as a district special ed person to be assigned to every family with a kid who has a IEP. I know families who can afford to stay home but are not equipped to teach their child with special needs. But our country won't even cough up enough to help people avoid eviction, so expecting a UBI fur the duration of this crisis is too much.

I have four close friends who are teachers and I am so worried about them. I'm worried about their kids. There's just no good answers, but forcing schools to act like everything is fine and run like normal is the worst answer.
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SevenEleven
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« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2020, 02:21:41 AM »

I have mixed feelings about reopening schools given the risk of the spread is relatively low and children are a low-risk demographic, and being away from physical schooling has a lot of negative educational and social consequences. However if the virus is too prevalent then even relatively less risky measures like school reopenings will be too dangerous. So for states like Arizona, Florida and Texas it is a bad idea. However, it should be a priority for the government and definitely should be done before stuff like bar reopenings (which is much higher risk). I don't know exactly which states it would be safe in though.

The kids may be low risk but the teachers aren't. And with teachers tending toward more susceptible demographics and difficulty finding enough good teachers as it is, and few substitutes willing to work in this environment, there's a lot more to consider. I'm happy that you're able to live in a country that is able to work toward a common interest, and in many ways envious. It's tough to strike a balance and here in the US we are likely to see a lose-lose rather than a win-win.
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dead0man
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« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2020, 05:14:16 AM »

several points...
1.there is no correct answer here, every option has really bad side affects
2.no matter what happens, it's going to hurt poor people worse than non-poor people
3.home schooling is going to explode and many kids will never go back to school, this is probably a good thing...but it's not going to help the kids of the working poor, the ignorant and the dumb
4.there needs to be a place to send the kids of the working poor that doesn't cost an arm and a leg, I have no idea how to do it, hopefully there are smart people thinking on this
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Landslide Lyndon
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« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2020, 05:30:26 AM »

Trump and his cultists don't give a sh**t about the lives of kids, teachers, parents, or the quality of their education. The only reason they want schools to reopen is because it will lead to some resemblance of normality that will help his reelection bid.
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Del Tachi
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« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2020, 11:42:23 AM »

Trump and his cultists don't give a sh**t about the lives of kids, teachers, parents, or the quality of their education. The only reason they want schools to reopen is because it will lead to some resemblance of normality that will help his reelection bid.

So at-home, online instruction is "higher quality" than traditional schooling?  When so many kids have s[inks]t parents/adults in their life who don't care whether they learn or not?

The Left is tripping over itself to keep the most disadvantaged kids in America away from critical resources and education all in an attempt to "own" Donald Trump and Republicans.
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Del Tachi
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« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2020, 11:58:16 AM »

For anyone actually interested (i.e., not any of the liberal posters on this site), here's the document.

It's really just a summary of what strategies schools/IHLs have been considering so far, while reiterating existing CDC guidance for educational institutions from May.

In the context of the document, the phrase "highest risk" (which only occurs once in reference to K12 schools, on page 2, and once again for IHLs on page 7) is used only to compare full reopening to virtual or hybrid learning.  Full reopening is only the "highest risk" relative to alternative strategies; the CDC does not call it "high risk" in a vacuum.

And people wonder why conservative have a problem with the fake news media?  NYTimes took a single document, extracted two words out of context, and then built a narrative that President Trump and Republicans are culpable for child deaths that haven't happened yet.
 
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T'Chenka
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« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2020, 08:50:21 PM »

NYTimes took a single document, extracted two words out of context, and then built a narrative that President Trump and Republicans are culpable for child deaths that haven't happened yet.
 
... but THEY WILL, or rather, the children will get others killed via infection. Your argument is equivelant to "they say they're going to drop a big bomb on the city, and the fake news built a narratibe around civilian deaths that haven't happened yet." They will happen.
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Del Tachi
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« Reply #18 on: July 12, 2020, 09:11:40 PM »
« Edited: July 12, 2020, 09:14:58 PM by Del Tachi »

NYTimes took a single document, extracted two words out of context, and then built a narrative that President Trump and Republicans are culpable for child deaths that haven't happened yet.
 
... but THEY WILL, or rather, the children will get others killed via infection. Your argument is equivelant to "they say they're going to drop a big bomb on the city, and the fake news built a narratibe around civilian deaths that haven't happened yet." They will happen.

Your reasoning that THEY WILL is based on the fake news narrative that articles like this expose, not anything the CDC, scientists or real-world evidence would suggest.  Your idea of WHAT WOULD happen is based only in the panic narratives publishers peddle to garner the most clicks. 

Did you even read the document linked above?  or is it too science-y for you?
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Badger
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« Reply #19 on: July 12, 2020, 09:18:32 PM »
« Edited: July 13, 2020, 12:08:29 AM by PQG and Libertarian Republican Pimp Slapped Coronavirus! »

I'm just going to offer what our local school district is doing. We are going to combine in class schooling with homeschooling. Apparently half the kids will be attending live Mondays and Tuesdays while the other half is taught via Zoom, and then switching for Thursdays and Fridays, and the entire class will be homeschooled on Wednesdays to give the chance to cleanse and disinfect the school as well. You were kids on the bus and in class will allow, the theory is, for greater social distancing. Masks are going to be generally mandatory. Kids from the same family will be assigned the same attendance days, which I'm very glad about having two boys in the same school this year. I'm not sure how exactly teaching a class that's partially alive and partially the video is going to work, but it beats the hell out of doing 100% long distance learning.

In a perfect world, I would so much rather have my kids hot live. One of my sons actually thrived and enjoy the online learning David doing quite well. The other child not as much, it hasn't proven of tremendous problem. He'll benefit more from the in-person teaching.

There are probably many Theses written by doctoral students in children's education oh, but I believe that even beyond the socialization element children learn better in a live environment. The best I can articulate it is it simply allows ideas to feedback better not just between teacher-pupil but among the pupils themselves than it does in a video setting.

At the same time, in the world we wouldn't be dealing with a potentially lethal disease. Children do get sick from covid-19, and even if the recovery rate is strong, there are indications that it can have lingering health effects long afterwards in terms of lung capacity, Etc. 99% of people survived polio too, but it doesn't mean I'd want to wind up like FDR. We are very worried about the increase in cases, and believe a balanced effort like this it's probably for the best.

I have absolutely zero problem with raising taxes, either locally, Statewide, or federally, in order to subsidize the means for children who can't afford at least a phone on which they can dial in Via Zoom can have one on loan from the school district for as long as necessary.

Trump and DeVos have, as usual, offered all the leadership as a blind and deaf mule, and seems to only you getting back to some semblance of normality to boost his re-election bid.
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It’s so Joever
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« Reply #20 on: July 13, 2020, 12:06:01 AM »

I think the biggest problem both sides (although one side more than the other) have when talking about reopening schools is the tendency to lump in everyone under 20 into one category.
The timelines for reopening primary and secondary schools should look dramatically different, because Covid-19 acts differently between kids before puberty and adolescents.
https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/18/how-likely-are-kids-to-get-covid-19-scientists-see-a-huge-puzzle-without-easy-answers/

We are finding that younger kids (5-12ish) tend to be spared from Covid-19 and also are just bad at spreading it.
However, teenagers seem to spread it at the similar levels as young adults, which honestly would make sense. Biologically, a 16 year old is closer to a 25 year old than a 6 year old.
The current outbreaks and anecdotal evidence from places such as Camp Kanakuk also support this idea.
Plus one of the biggest reasons to open schools is because parents have to work. This makes sense for elementary aged children, who probably shouldn’t be left alone for long periods of time, but teenagers are different (obviously) so the reasoning doesn’t apply to them as much.
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AndyHogan14
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« Reply #21 on: July 13, 2020, 01:24:03 AM »

My school district just approved a plan in which students will be separated into two cohorts and cohort "A" coming to school on Tuesdays and Thursdays and cohort "B" in school on Wednesdays and Fridays. Mondays will be a "collaboration" day in which teachers check in with students that are 100% online (around 10% of our parents opted for that) and for everyone to receive some sort of online lesson.

At all levels, there will be a maximum of 15 desks (the maximum number we could fit in a room with them all being six feet apart) with all non-essential furniture being moved to storage. Secondary students will remain in the same classroom all day with teachers changing rooms (I hate this part because my room has significantly more technology than some of the others) and all secondary students will also be required to wear masks. Teachers will be provided masks and a face shield and we will be required to wear at least one (preferably both). I have also heard (but it has not been confirmed) that were are going to be required to keep our doors and windows open (luckily they all open to the outside) and that the HVAC system should not be used. The after school program is going to be greatly expanded to allow for students to be looked after on days when they are supposed to be at home. The program expansion is actually going to force the fifth grade to move to the middle school which would normally not work but next year's fourth, fifth, and sixth grades are all small (they were born in the midst of the last recession).

I am hoping that this plan works because, while I would know the 8th graders (I teach 7th and 8th), trying to get to know my 7th graders online would be a struggle. Also, this plan would also allow us to slide easily back into regular schooling if the conditions warrant it.
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T'Chenka
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« Reply #22 on: July 13, 2020, 01:53:01 AM »

Did you even read the document linked above?  or is it too science-y for you?
No, because I haven't seen anybody credible comment on it. What's the short version? Some scientist says that not only do kids not get sick with COVID-19, but they also do not spread it to their friends and family members? Does that scientist have any respect / good-faith built up in the science community, or are they a schill? Have any other scientists come to that same conclusion?
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Brittain33
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« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2020, 06:58:20 AM »

This is a terrible situation with no winners. Teachers can't safely reopen schools given the continuing spread of the coronavirus and the lack of resources or plans to open and manage schools safely. Parents can't have another year without either the child care or their children's progression in their learning. Any solution is going to hurt large numbers of people. Teachers and Parents are fighting and Trump's making it worse. It's so ugle.
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lfromnj
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« Reply #24 on: July 13, 2020, 07:46:42 AM »

I'm just going to offer what our local school district is doing. We are going to combine in class schooling with homeschooling. Apparently half the kids will be attending live Mondays and Tuesdays while the other half is taught via Zoom, and then switching for Thursdays and Fridays, and the entire class will be homeschooled on Wednesdays to give the chance to cleanse and disinfect the school as well. You were kids on the bus and in class will allow, the theory is, for greater social distancing. Masks are going to be generally mandatory. Kids from the same family will be assigned the same attendance days, which I'm very glad about having two boys in the same school this year. I'm not sure how exactly teaching a class that's partially alive and partially the video is going to work, but it beats the hell out of doing 100% long distance learning.

In a perfect world, I would so much rather have my kids hot live. One of my sons actually thrived and enjoy the online learning David doing quite well. The other child not as much, it hasn't proven of tremendous problem. He'll benefit more from the in-person teaching.

There are probably many Theses written by doctoral students in children's education oh, but I believe that even beyond the socialization element children learn better in a live environment. The best I can articulate it is it simply allows ideas to feedback better not just between teacher-pupil but among the pupils themselves than it does in a video setting.

At the same time, in the world we wouldn't be dealing with a potentially lethal disease. Children do get sick from covid-19, and even if the recovery rate is strong, there are indications that it can have lingering health effects long afterwards in terms of lung capacity, Etc. 99% of people survived polio too, but it doesn't mean I'd want to wind up like FDR. We are very worried about the increase in cases, and believe a balanced effort like this it's probably for the best.

I have absolutely zero problem with raising taxes, either locally, Statewide, or federally, in order to subsidize the means for children who can't afford at least a phone on which they can dial in Via Zoom can have one on loan from the school district for as long as necessary.

Trump and DeVos have, as usual, offered all the leadership as a blind and deaf mule, and seems to only you getting back to some semblance of normality to boost his re-election bid.
Seattle actually had a pretty good idea just horribly implemented. Also the political reaction would be quite angry. They wanted certain at risk groups like AA males and ESL students to be allowed back in building while the remainder would be learning from home. Obviously this is stupid because no race isnt everything even if it has a strong correlation. I might say single family households should have priority even if it's an unpopular decision .
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