Scottish Parliament Election, 6th May 2021
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Author Topic: Scottish Parliament Election, 6th May 2021  (Read 41398 times)
CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #25 on: August 12, 2020, 07:23:43 AM »

Re the latest YouGov survey, aside from the usual "possible outlier" caveat it has to be noted that the ratings for our esteemed PM in Scotland are *incredibly* bad - "up" there with Corbyn's at their worst.

(btw Starmer scores something like plus 15, an indication all may not be totally lost for SLab if only they could at least minimally get their s*** together somehow)
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afleitch
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« Reply #26 on: August 12, 2020, 07:42:04 AM »

Re the latest YouGov survey, aside from the usual "possible outlier" caveat it has to be noted that the ratings for our esteemed PM in Scotland are *incredibly* bad - "up" there with Corbyn's at their worst.

(btw Starmer scores something like plus 15, an indication all may not be totally lost for SLab if only they could at least minimally get their s*** together somehow)

Hi Scottish Labour. Want to poll 30%?

Oh yes!

Get some REAL Labour policies and figures back to the front line?

Tell me how!!

Back a second independence referendum and allow members to take a 'pro' line if they want.

Is there another way?

I tell you this every year. No. Unless you want an even bigger defeat next year.

'Don't listen to him. The Union is more important than the workers!'

Oh yes. Harder daddy. Give me that precious Union. Harder. Drive me me down to 10% sir. For the Union sir!

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DaWN
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« Reply #27 on: August 12, 2020, 07:43:46 AM »

all may not be totally lost for SLab if only they could at least minimally get their s*** together somehow)

Want to hear my solution?
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CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #28 on: August 12, 2020, 07:53:50 AM »

If the answer involves "a new leader" then I said just the other day that I increasingly suspect that will happen before next year's election (though maybe not until 2021 is upon us)
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DaWN
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« Reply #29 on: August 12, 2020, 07:57:02 AM »

If the answer involves "a new leader" then I said just the other day that I increasingly suspect that will happen before next year's election (though maybe not until 2021 is upon us)

As a matter of fact, it does involve that.

If they can find a way of retaking second place it would be an astounding achievement though, let's not get ahead of ourselves. And backing a referendum is one of those things that sounds great until you apply every test of logic to it when it falls apart. If SLab do that they deserve to permanently and finally die.
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CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #30 on: August 12, 2020, 08:00:58 AM »

Though I agree with the previous poster (and I don't on quite a lot of stuff) in that simple bone-headed Ian Murray type unionism, Union Jack waistcoats and all, also isn't going to cut it.

And that, really, summarises Scottish Labour's fundamental problem.
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DaWN
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« Reply #31 on: August 12, 2020, 08:07:41 AM »

Though I agree with the previous poster (and I don't on quite a lot of stuff) in that simple bone-headed Ian Murray type unionism, Union Jack waistcoats and all, also isn't going to cut it.

And that, really, summarises Scottish Labour's fundamental problem.

I also agree with that. The message should be very simple for them - 'ordinary people are better off in the union', which should be very easy to get across without even touching the Murray approach. (I make no comments as to whether said statement is true or not before my throat is jumped down). But they just can't do it.

The problem is messaging. They are really, really sh!t at it. And also leadership, but I repeat myself.
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EastAnglianLefty
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« Reply #32 on: August 12, 2020, 08:21:26 AM »

Worth noting that Labour are up slightly in that poll since April, though still heavily down on 2016.

Also worth remembering that we have no idea of the accuracy of pandemic polling and the general record of most UK polling outside short campaigns isn't great anyway.
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Continential
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« Reply #33 on: August 12, 2020, 09:11:05 AM »

If there is a unionist coaltion somehow, Labour would decline in the poll and be attacked by SNP for "working with conservatives".
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DaWN
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« Reply #34 on: August 12, 2020, 09:17:29 AM »

If there is a unionist coaltion somehow

We can stop reading right there because there is absolutely zero chance of that happening
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afleitch
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« Reply #35 on: August 12, 2020, 10:19:25 AM »

If the answer involves "a new leader" then I said just the other day that I increasingly suspect that will happen before next year's election (though maybe not until 2021 is upon us)

As a matter of fact, it does involve that.

If they can find a way of retaking second place it would be an astounding achievement though, let's not get ahead of ourselves. And backing a referendum is one of those things that sounds great until you apply every test of logic to it when it falls apart. If SLab do that they deserve to permanently and finally die.

Winning back the core vote that fled because they supported independence by opposing independence even harder is a stellar take.
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Zinneke
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« Reply #36 on: August 12, 2020, 03:05:34 PM »

A question : why has DevoMax so often touted before the referendum not been revived. Surely it makes better sense for Nationalists and could be somewhat attractive to Scottish Labour in a reduced format?
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afleitch
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« Reply #37 on: August 12, 2020, 03:13:27 PM »

A question : why has DevoMax so often touted before the referendum not been revived. Surely it makes better sense for Nationalists and could be somewhat attractive to Scottish Labour in a reduced format?


Because it was a lie they had no intention of delivering.

The more nuanced answer is that a restructure would probably require a root and branch reorganisation of Home Nation government, the creation of an English Parliament, the reduction of Commons power and deep reform or abolition of the House of Lords. And they have no intention of ever delivering that either.
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brucejoel99
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« Reply #38 on: August 12, 2020, 03:21:59 PM »

A question : why has DevoMax so often touted before the referendum not been revived. Surely it makes better sense for Nationalists and could be somewhat attractive to Scottish Labour in a reduced format?

Because the unionist parties can't be trusted to follow through on it.

As it stands, the British Parliament sits in England, is dominated by English politicians, & is beholden to the English electorate. In order for federalism to work, England would need to broken up into regions, which would dilute their power & bring equilibrium to the UK.

The unionist parties - of course - need to win in England to form a government, so none of them are gonna seriously push for federalism & try to convince the English electorate to have reduced influence in order to appease the Scots (& Welsh & Northern Irish). Not even Scottish Labour's heart is really in it.

At the end of the day, Scotland would need the agreement of the English electorate (which is unlikely, given the fact that 78% of the North East already rejected devolution in 2004) & even if that succeeded, Scotland would - contrary to its wishes - still be out of the EU.

So at this point, independence is really the only way for Scotland to get what it wants.
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EastAnglianLefty
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« Reply #39 on: August 12, 2020, 03:52:37 PM »

A question : why has DevoMax so often touted before the referendum not been revived. Surely it makes better sense for Nationalists and could be somewhat attractive to Scottish Labour in a reduced format?

Why would it be attractive to Scottish Labour? Scotland is less reliant on fiscal transfers than other traditionally Labour-voting areas of the UK, but it is somewhat reliant and Labour's representation and potential targets are concentrated in poorer bits of Scotland.
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EastAnglianLefty
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« Reply #40 on: August 13, 2020, 08:01:40 AM »

To nobody's great surprise, A-level results in England are also proving extremely controversial and it appears the process has been entirely mismanaged. Amongst other things, they've moderated the grades for larger school cohorts but haven't done so for larger cohorts, which has benefited private schools as they tend to have much smaller sixth forms. It's also being reported that where students successfully appeal, this will lead to another pupil in the same school having their grades lowered in turn, which isn't at all morally dubious...

Slightly more surprisingly, the SNP actually seems to want to make hay with this, rather than remaining silent and letting the Tories take the heat.
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CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #41 on: August 15, 2020, 06:11:28 AM »

And of course, the SNP are now trying to score points over the English situation.

Shameless doesn't even begin to cover it really Tongue
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #42 on: August 15, 2020, 07:38:31 AM »

Scottish government makes a stupid and extremely serious mistake; does a panicked reverse-ferret. UK government (acting for England) makes the same mistake a little later, despite the warning: decides to plough grimly on. Intense small 'c' conservatism of Welsh government mean they avoid the error. Am I referring to certain aspects of pandemic response or to the A-level situation?
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Cassius
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« Reply #43 on: August 15, 2020, 08:40:47 AM »

I’m probably being very stupid, but I’m still unconvinced that it wouldn’t have been better simply to plough on with the exams as per usual. I think they could’ve been done under reasonably socially distanced conditions, perhaps in smaller groups and staggered out over the course of the day (ie half a cohort sits the exam first then the other half sits it immediately afterwards). Obviously, there might be resourcing difficulties in terms of having enough invigilators, and having staggered cohorts sit the exams separately raises the possibility of cheating, but I’m sure these problems could have been overcome with sufficient preparation. There’s also the question of whether a lot of kids would’ve been well prepared enough to sit the exams given the... patchy, teaching they’ve received over he last three months (understandably patchy unfortunately), but I still think it would have been better than the grotesque farrago we’ve seen over the last week.

I have to say, whilst obviously it’s a total sh**tshow for anyone who has the misfortune to be going through it right now, this pandemic has performed a valuable service in showcasing what a disaster our entire education system is (both at the secondary and higher levels).
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EastAnglianLefty
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« Reply #44 on: August 15, 2020, 12:42:00 PM »

Yeah, I think the big issue with holding the exams anyway is that far more students would have failed, because they hadn't been adequately prepared for their exams. Students have been treated extremely unfairly, but that's only the first problem. The second problem is that they've had much less education than previous cohorts and this is going to have a continuing impact upon their academic careers and future employment if nothing is done about it (as seems probable.)

The problem is likely to be even worse for next year's cohort.
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Zinneke
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« Reply #45 on: August 16, 2020, 05:37:49 AM »

So Ruth Davidson is back?
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CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #46 on: August 16, 2020, 07:11:26 AM »

She is the acting Tory "leader" in Hoyrood for the time being, given that Ross is based in Westminster.
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Alcibiades
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« Reply #47 on: August 16, 2020, 09:23:40 AM »

Yeah, I think the big issue with holding the exams anyway is that far more students would have failed, because they hadn't been adequately prepared for their exams. Students have been treated extremely unfairly, but that's only the first problem. The second problem is that they've had much less education than previous cohorts and this is going to have a continuing impact upon their academic careers and future employment if nothing is done about it (as seems probable.)

The problem is likely to be even worse for next year's cohort.

Although the exam cohorts have in some ways been the most unlucky, in another sense they are the most fortunate, as by the time schools shut they had pretty much completed their syllabuses and would have been moving into revision, so they have actually missed the least learning.
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brucejoel99
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« Reply #48 on: August 16, 2020, 09:50:55 AM »

She is the acting Tory "leader" in Hoyrood for the time being, given that Ross is based in Westminster.

Desperate times call for desperate measures, though unless Ruth can reverse Brexit & retroactively improve the UK's COVID-19 response, I don't think this'll be helping the Scottish Tories.
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CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #49 on: August 17, 2020, 08:24:30 AM »

She is the acting Tory "leader" in Hoyrood for the time being, given that Ross is based in Westminster.

Desperate times call for desperate measures, though unless Ruth can reverse Brexit & retroactively improve the UK's COVID-19 response, I don't think this'll be helping the Scottish Tories.

Her best days are almost certainly behind her, though this is a pragmatic arrangement really.
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