Seattle hosts Segregated Diversity Training for Employees

[Horus]

Not surprised that this was Seattle. That city always tries to be woke in the worst ways. Just talk to each other.

[Horus]

The biggest problem with the over woke far left is not their views on the issues or even their attitude, it's their complete inability to see humans as individuals. Everything is institutional no matter how small.

[Horus]

A fair number of Atlas posters thoughts can be summarized as "Let me be racist in peace".

Do you think segregating people for a day is a good idea?

[Horus]

A fair number of Atlas posters thoughts can be summarized as "Let me be racist in peace".

Do you think segregating people for a day is a good idea?

 Yes because people who do this type of training have to account for the completely insane ways some white people react. I've read a lot about this and it's crazy the anger, entitlement, and fragility they are encountered with.

 If you find this type of training unwanted or even patronizing, don't be a damn racist at work, admonish your white coworkers when they are racist. It's 2020 already and we shouldn't have to be doing diversity training, the fact we do is the real outrage.

Do you think people are reacting negatively because they're being segregated based on race? I would react negatively to something such as that. If we're really trying to end racism that is not the way.

I agree that admonishing white co workers who are racist is needed, but you don't need to make the workplace 1959 Alabama for a day to accomplish that.

You can dislike training such as this and also not be racist. This isn't an either or.

[Horus]

A fair number of Atlas posters thoughts can be summarized as "Let me be racist in peace".

Do you think segregating people for a day is a good idea?

 Yes because people who do this type of training have to account for the completely insane ways some white people react. I've read a lot about this and it's crazy the anger, entitlement, and fragility they are encountered with.

 If you find this type of training unwanted or even patronizing, don't be a damn racist at work, admonish your white coworkers when they are racist. It's 2020 already and we shouldn't have to be doing diversity training, the fact we do is the real outrage.

Do you think people are reacting negatively because they're being segregated based on race? I would react negatively to something such as that. If we're really trying to end racism that is not the way.

I agree that admonishing white co workers who are racist is needed, but you don't need to make the workplace 1959 Alabama for a day to accomplish that.

You can dislike training such as this and also not be racist. This isn't an either or.

 Not all the training is always separated. But one of the key factors is the white people feel they're being "attacked" and usually go on the defensive, some even freakout, cry, insult the trainer, or even justify their racism because of "stuff like this". I would imagine separating the like most things people was done for the benefit of whites.

 I mean you seen that same attitude in this thread. Liberals are going to lose because of "stuff like this". If you're not a racist what's so hard about sitting through the talking points, maybe learning something, while you're being paid.

The fact that I'm not a racist is precisely why i have a problem with segregation...

[Horus]

Makes sense. Racism is really a “white person problem,” not a “people of colour problem.”

As for trying to emphasize the racist implications of individualism, I’d say the message is clear. Individualism likes to presuppose that one’s work ethic, character, and merit fairly determine one’s station in life. If you’re poor, it’s because you haven’t worked hard enough, and if you’re rich, it’s because you’re special and deserving. This worldview makes it so challenging for white people to accept that there are invisible barriers standing in the way holding people of colour back. This worldview makes it so easy for white people to shout that everyone should just shut up about racism because it will magically go away if we only stop talking about it—and that black people have “all the same opportunities as we do” to “make something of their lives.”

If you ask me, these are exactly the beliefs that sit at the centre of white people’s problems with diversity and racism, so I’m all for any program that tries to eat away at these cancers directly. Race is real. Racism is real. Equity preaches that we recognize people may need different things to succeed, and that we try to give everyone appropriate, targeted supports. In this case, it’s very clear that white people need a hell of a lot more to uproot their biases than racialized folk do. Let’s give it to them—it’ll help everyone.

Race is only real in our society because Europeans made it real 400 years ago. Other than that it's a social construct. Are you using Eurocentric norms to define race?

Also, I certainly haven't seen anyone in this thread say "shut up about racism" or anything close to it. We just don't think segregation, however brief, is means towards ending bigotry.

To me at least, comments such as this, from lily white Canadians who probably have a grand total of one black associate, are just "race realism" with good PR on top.

[Horus]

Makes sense. Racism is really a “white person problem,” not a “people of colour problem.”

As for trying to emphasize the racist implications of individualism, I’d say the message is clear. Individualism likes to presuppose that one’s work ethic, character, and merit fairly determine one’s station in life. If you’re poor, it’s because you haven’t worked hard enough, and if you’re rich, it’s because you’re special and deserving. This worldview makes it so challenging for white people to accept that there are invisible barriers standing in the way holding people of colour back. This worldview makes it so easy for white people to shout that everyone should just shut up about racism because it will magically go away if we only stop talking about it—and that black people have “all the same opportunities as we do” to “make something of their lives.”

If you ask me, these are exactly the beliefs that sit at the centre of white people’s problems with diversity and racism, so I’m all for any program that tries to eat away at these cancers directly. Race is real. Racism is real. Equity preaches that we recognize people may need different things to succeed, and that we try to give everyone appropriate, targeted supports. In this case, it’s very clear that white people need a hell of a lot more to uproot their biases than racialized folk do. Let’s give it to them—it’ll help everyone.

Race is only real in our society because Europeans made it real 400 years ago. Other than that it's a social construct. Are you using Eurocentric norms to define race?

Also, I certainly haven't seen anyone in this thread say "shut up about racism" or anything close to it. We just don't think segregation, however brief, is means towards ending bigotry.

To me at least, comments such as this, from lily white Canadians who probably have a grand total of one black associate, are just "race realism" with good PR on top.

I don’t really care what you think about my motives. I do take issue with the way you seem to think I’m stupid, though. Believe it or not, I’m well aware that race is a social construct, thanks—but the fact that it’s a social construct doesn’t make it any less real. It’s way too real. The way to stop it from being the all-too-deterministic factor it is, however, is not to shut anti-racists up. And contrary to the words you put in my mouth, I was not accusing anyone of doing that in this thread (that is, until you decided to attack me personally so you could call my words cheap). I was saying that an ideology of individualism tends to go hand-in-hand with the lie of meritocracy. Pretending we can just have a fair meritocracy without doing anything about existing, race-based inequality of opportunity is a huge problem that perpetuates systemic racism. That is what’s tantamount to calling on everyone to shut up about race. We here in this thread may know better, but I should hope that we aren’t the people who most need diversity training (though, of course, we could still benefit from it).

Not sure what to say in response to your belief that white folk and people of colour should always have the same diversity training, though. We “segregate” training based on need all the time. I’ll admit it’s not typically done by race, but if the issue itself is race, it makes a lot of sense. The only reason we wouldn’t do it is because we’d be “scared” to talk frankly about the realities of racism or to acknowledge something “awkward.” We need to get rid of that stigma. Plus, I can’t even imagine what it’s like to be a black person sitting through a diversity training session listening to that one token white guy “play devil’s advocate.” Or to be the person everyone looks at in the room. Or to be relied on as “the expert.” Or to receive the implicit message that racism is something I need to work on too, as if I am to blame for white people treating me differently.

To argue that this is “segregation” in the way that whites-only pools were is intellectually dishonest. It’s needs-based training. If you think white people don’t need different anti-racism training than people of colour, that’s a whole different can of worms.

The intent might not be the same, but at the end of the day you can call it "needs based training"  all you want, and your intentions may be noble, but it is still segregation based on race. This reminds me of George Carlin on soft language, it went from "Jim Crow" to "segregation" to "needs based training."

Also, no one can convince white people to not be racist by talking down to them in "diversity training." Other than maybe Jane Elliott. Only through interracial friendships, dialogue and understanding can we move past race. It's our duty to call out racism yes, but it has been shown time and time again that diversity training like this does. not. work. Once again, no one has said they don't "want to do anything" about systemic racism. We just don't believe that segregation is a step in solving it. You keep throwing out outrageous strawmen.

If race is way too real, and I agree it is, putting black people in one room and white people in another will not make it less so. It will amplify it.

[Horus]

I'm not reading this entire thread, but this is a ridiculous interpretation. Ever hear of affinity groups?

It's a workshop on diversity.

For part of it, employees self-sort into which session is most appropriate for them: a place for white people to examine their white privilege and deconstruct biases and unjust systems of privilege/oppression, and to self education; or a place for people of color to examine how systems of privilege and oppression have been holding them back and how to better support each other and advocate for themselves.

How unfair would it be to put a white person in an irrelevant session, or a person of color in an irrelevant session? It is not the burden of people of color to educate white people. White people need to educate themselves.

What if I feel like I self sort best into a group that doesn't match my physical characteristics? Does that make me the sjw version of a race traitor?

[Horus]

Stop trolling. And baiting.

And this isn’t segregation. You seem to have no education on racism or anti-racism.

Tbf the garbage you were trying to pull in this thread about "affinity groups" really isn't any better than the bronz worldview. Very out of touch stuff there. You seem to also support segregation so long as it's done politely and certified by someone who says Latinx.

[Horus]

Stop trolling. And baiting.

And this isn’t segregation. You seem to have no education on racism or anti-racism.

It's turning into segregation. I have a lot of education on racism and antiracism. The Left are the ones who claim to be helping disadvantaged people, while tearing down another race of people, the majority still as of 2021.

These things can be well-intentioned, but they lead to racial tension. No one owes anyone anything.

How is it turning into segregation to consider your characteristics and how they advantage or disadvantage you in our current social/political/economic system?

We all owe each other understanding and love.

Stop trolling. And baiting.

And this isn’t segregation. You seem to have no education on racism or anti-racism.

Tbf the garbage you were trying to pull in this thread about "affinity groups" really isn't any better than the bronz worldview. Very out of touch stuff there. You seem to also support segregation so long as it's done politely and certified by someone who says Latinx.

I know it's "out of touch" with the mainstream, but it's correct. It was also quite "out of touch" to post about Black Lives Matter some 5 years ago. You should become more self-aware of your own bias and approach this with an open mind. How is it turning into segregation to consider your characteristics and how they advantage or disadvantage you in our current social/political/economic system?

I'm not referring to whatever bronz is talking about up there, I'm referring to what you said on the previous page back in July. Considering your advantages or disadvantages in the current system is fine, so long as one isn't creating problems that aren't there.

But, when you take the extra step of putting white people in one room and black people in another, as was being done, it will not help ease racial tensions, it will amplify differences.

Adam Griffin has the right idea. Put everyone in one room together and excoriate the racists if they exist. No need to beat around the bush with cute HR games.