AK-SEN 2022: A Rank Choice
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  AK-SEN 2022: A Rank Choice
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Frenchrepublican
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« Reply #100 on: April 25, 2021, 05:20:11 AM »

Joe Manchin endorses Murkowski:



I doubt that anyone in AK cares about who a WV senator is endorsing.
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President Punxsutawney Phil
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« Reply #101 on: April 25, 2021, 05:54:32 AM »

Joe Manchin endorses Murkowski:


This is a very Joe Manchin move.
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They put it to a vote and they just kept lying
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« Reply #102 on: April 25, 2021, 07:45:27 AM »

Joe Manchin endorses Murkowski:



As FR pointed out, absolutely no one in Alaska is going to base their vote off of what Joe Manchin thinks, which means this is yet another attempt to get attention and showboat for his own personal gain. If he had said “Look, I respect Murkowski, I think she’s a great Senator, I don’t think it’s fair that she’s going to be primaried for voting in accordance with her convictions, she’s a good person” and stopped short of endorsing her, that would be, in my book, annoying but fine. A member of the Democratic Party—a Senator in a tied Senate nonetheless—advocating that a Republican be re-elected, no matter who it is or where they’re from, is flat out unacceptable. And I know he endorsed Collins last year too. Democrats should not be advocating to bring back Republicans—we should be advocating to bring in more Democrats. And we ought to be doing that by advocating against Republicans.

It’s not that I think this is going to seal the deal for Murkowski; that would be silly. It’s the principle that Manchin continues to do this knowing there’s no mechanism in place to stop him because he’s the 50th vote. And a lot of people on here will argue that saying “he’s not a Democrat” is unfair, but I can’t even imagine if Joe Biden came out and literally endorsed a Republican over a Democrat in a Congressional race. It would never happen. Manchin is the only Democrat that does this as often as he does. I understand he’s better than the alternatives in WV, but I’m eager to strengthen the Senate majority so that what he thinks doesn’t matter anymore.
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Sir Mohamed
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« Reply #103 on: April 25, 2021, 10:45:29 AM »

Joe Manchin endorses Murkowski:



I doubt that anyone in AK cares about who a WV senator is endorsing.

The purpose of this is more to remain credentials among WV voters to appear kind of indpedendent from the national Dem Party, which isn't exactly popular in his state. Perhaps Manchin thinks he can hang in 2024.
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Epaminondas
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« Reply #104 on: April 25, 2021, 10:55:42 AM »

As FR pointed out, absolutely no one in Alaska is going to base their vote off of what Joe Manchin thinks, which means this is yet another attempt to get attention and showboat for his own personal gain. If he had said “Look, I respect Murkowski, I think she’s a great Senator, I don’t think it’s fair that she’s going to be primaried for voting in accordance with her convictions, she’s a good person” and stopped short of endorsing her, that would be, in my book, annoying but fine. A member of the Democratic Party—a Senator in a tied Senate nonetheless—advocating that a Republican be re-elected, no matter who it is or where they’re from, is flat out unacceptable. And I know he endorsed Collins last year too. Democrats should not be advocating to bring back Republicans—we should be advocating to bring in more Democrats. And we ought to be doing that by advocating against Republicans.

It’s not that I think this is going to seal the deal for Murkowski; that would be silly. It’s the principle that Manchin continues to do this knowing there’s no mechanism in place to stop him because he’s the 50th vote. And a lot of people on here will argue that saying “he’s not a Democrat” is unfair, but I can’t even imagine if Joe Biden came out and literally endorsed a Republican over a Democrat in a Congressional race. It would never happen. Manchin is the only Democrat that does this as often as he does. I understand he’s better than the alternatives in WV, but I’m eager to strengthen the Senate majority so that what he thinks doesn’t matter anymore.

Odd rant, given that without Joe Manchin there'd be no Democratic Senate majority. He forewent switching to the GOP at an high cost (scraping though in 2018 vs. no campaigning needed), so give credit where it's due. If Fat Pat had joined Capito, McConnell would still be Majority Leader.

All this is perfunctory, nobody should care about Manchin's gesticulations outside of WV.
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Chancellor Tanterterg
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« Reply #105 on: April 25, 2021, 10:57:40 AM »

Joe Manchin endorses Murkowski:



As FR pointed out, absolutely no one in Alaska is going to base their vote off of what Joe Manchin thinks, which means this is yet another attempt to get attention and showboat for his own personal gain. If he had said “Look, I respect Murkowski, I think she’s a great Senator, I don’t think it’s fair that she’s going to be primaried for voting in accordance with her convictions, she’s a good person” and stopped short of endorsing her, that would be, in my book, annoying but fine. A member of the Democratic Party—a Senator in a tied Senate nonetheless—advocating that a Republican be re-elected, no matter who it is or where they’re from, is flat out unacceptable. And I know he endorsed Collins last year too. Democrats should not be advocating to bring back Republicans—we should be advocating to bring in more Democrats. And we ought to be doing that by advocating against Republicans.

It’s not that I think this is going to seal the deal for Murkowski; that would be silly. It’s the principle that Manchin continues to do this knowing there’s no mechanism in place to stop him because he’s the 50th vote. And a lot of people on here will argue that saying “he’s not a Democrat” is unfair, but I can’t even imagine if Joe Biden came out and literally endorsed a Republican over a Democrat in a Congressional race. It would never happen. Manchin is the only Democrat that does this as often as he does. I understand he’s better than the alternatives in WV, but I’m eager to strengthen the Senate majority so that what he thinks doesn’t matter anymore.

Joe Biden endorsed Fred Upton in 2018 IIRC Tongue
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20RP12
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« Reply #106 on: April 25, 2021, 11:19:47 AM »

Odd rant, given that without Joe Manchin there'd be no Democratic Senate majority. He forewent switching to the GOP at an high cost (scraping though in 2018 vs. no campaigning needed), so give credit where it's due. If Fat Pat had joined Capito, McConnell would still be Majority Leader.

All this is perfunctory, nobody should care about Manchin's gesticulations outside of WV.

I totally understand and even noted that he’s better than the alternatives in WV, which is why I also said I want to work to expand the Senate majority so it doesn’t come down to him anymore. It doesn’t make it any less stupid that he grandstands this way when it does matter.

Joe Biden endorsed Fred Upton in 2018 IIRC Tongue

He endorsed his opponent last year though. And he’s now a sitting US President rather than a former Vice President; the circumstances are a little different.
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Chancellor Tanterterg
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« Reply #107 on: April 25, 2021, 11:26:23 AM »

Odd rant, given that without Joe Manchin there'd be no Democratic Senate majority. He forewent switching to the GOP at an high cost (scraping though in 2018 vs. no campaigning needed), so give credit where it's due. If Fat Pat had joined Capito, McConnell would still be Majority Leader.

All this is perfunctory, nobody should care about Manchin's gesticulations outside of WV.

I totally understand and even noted that he’s better than the alternatives in WV, which is why I also said I want to work to expand the Senate majority so it doesn’t come down to him anymore. It doesn’t make it any less stupid that he grandstands this way when it does matter.

Joe Biden endorsed Fred Upton in 2018 IIRC Tongue

He endorsed his opponent last year though. And he’s now a sitting US President rather than a former Vice President; the circumstances are a little different.

I don’t disagree, I’m just saying.
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Frenchrepublican
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« Reply #108 on: April 25, 2021, 12:15:08 PM »
« Edited: April 25, 2021, 12:26:07 PM by Frenchrepublican »

Joe Manchin endorses Murkowski:



I doubt that anyone in AK cares about who a WV senator is endorsing.

The purpose of this is more to remain credentials among WV voters to appear kind of indpedendent from the national Dem Party, which isn't exactly popular in his state. Perhaps Manchin thinks he can hang in 2024.

I doubt that endorsing Murkowski is going to help him winning a lot of WV Trump voters, I mean who even knows Murkowski outside of AK ? Probably not the average Mingo County voter.

Anyway it will be hard for him to put some distance between him and the national democratic party after voting to impeach Trump and confirming the entire Biden cabinet (a cabinet which is going to destroy the WV economy).
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President Johnson
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« Reply #109 on: April 25, 2021, 01:24:00 PM »

You can criticize Joe Manchin politically, but maybe endorsement is just out of personal friendship and not coming from any political motive? It's actually kinda sad there aren't more crossparty friendships in congress anymore, as opposed to 40-50 years ago. If I was a senator and certain blue avatar posters here would be my colleagues, I may also endorse them, especially if said race isn't determining control of the senate. But even in this case, it probably wouldn't matter much for the outcome anyway (Susan Collins obviously didn't win reelection because of Manchin).
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MT Treasurer
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« Reply #110 on: April 25, 2021, 01:36:34 PM »

Joe Manchin's modus operandi mostly consists of touting and burnishing his bipartisan, independent credentials whenever it doesn’t make any difference but still gets him a favorable headline or two that can be turned into some nice ad material, so it’s certainly no surprise to see him endorsing Collins or Murkowski. You’re obviously not very smart if you think the man actually wants Republicans to hold this state (or win any competitive race, for that matter).
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Pollster
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« Reply #111 on: April 26, 2021, 10:02:31 AM »

Not to derail this thread from the Alaska race, but I do wonder if this is a sign that Manchin is going to get actively involved in more Senate races. Especially with the Republicans themselves nonsensically peddling the "Manchin is the only good Democrat" line or whatever, he could very easily go to certain regions and lend credibility to Dem candidates with certain types of voters.
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Gracile
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« Reply #112 on: April 26, 2021, 10:38:16 AM »

Not to derail this thread from the Alaska race, but I do wonder if this is a sign that Manchin is going to get actively involved in more Senate races. Especially with the Republicans themselves nonsensically peddling the "Manchin is the only good Democrat" line or whatever, he could very easily go to certain regions and lend credibility to Dem candidates with certain types of voters.

I don't think Manchin has that kind of pull, as the kind of voters you're referring to probably are not the types to be familiar with Manchin or his brand of politics. His endorsement of Murkowski (and Collins) seems like simply a self-serving move.
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Pollster
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« Reply #113 on: April 26, 2021, 11:40:17 AM »

Not to derail this thread from the Alaska race, but I do wonder if this is a sign that Manchin is going to get actively involved in more Senate races. Especially with the Republicans themselves nonsensically peddling the "Manchin is the only good Democrat" line or whatever, he could very easily go to certain regions and lend credibility to Dem candidates with certain types of voters.

I don't think Manchin has that kind of pull, as the kind of voters you're referring to probably are not the types to be familiar with Manchin or his brand of politics. His endorsement of Murkowski (and Collins) seems like simply a self-serving move.

I agree with this, and definitely about his reasoning for this endorsement, but given the amount of media coverage there's been of him since Biden took office and the amount of lionization Republicans have done of him, I'd wager his profile is growing somewhat quickly.
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ShamDam
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« Reply #114 on: April 26, 2021, 12:30:36 PM »

I was pissed that he endorsed Susan Collins because that was a highly competitive race where it could have plausibly made a difference. A Democrat has a steeper hill to climb in Alaska and any Republican that would replace Murkowski would inevitably be worse. I think this is a more complicated situation and I ain't that mad about it
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GeneralMacArthur
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« Reply #115 on: April 26, 2021, 12:33:28 PM »

Making committal moves to build a genuine bond with a Republican senator so you can try to bring her across the aisle is good, actually.

If Murkowski makes it through the primary, she will win re-election easily, regardless of the Manchin endorsement.  If she doesn't make it through the primary, then whatever Trump-selected loon replaces her will probably win easily as well, and be far worse for Democrats.  So if Manchin can help her win the primary that's probably a net positive for Dems since Murkowski at least works with us on stuff sometimes.
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Left Wing
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« Reply #116 on: April 26, 2021, 12:38:38 PM »

If Murkowski makes it through the primary, she will win re-election easily, regardless of the Manchin endorsement.  If she doesn't make it through the primary, then whatever Trump-selected loon replaces her will probably win easily as well, and be far worse for Democrats.  So if Manchin can help her win the primary that's probably a net positive for Dems since Murkowski at least works with us on stuff sometimes.

This isn't how the elections in Alaska work anymore. It's a jungle primary and then a top four election with rcv.
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The Undefeatable Debbie Stabenow
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« Reply #117 on: April 26, 2021, 03:40:30 PM »

Joe Manchin endorses Murkowski:



As FR pointed out, absolutely no one in Alaska is going to base their vote off of what Joe Manchin thinks, which means this is yet another attempt to get attention and showboat for his own personal gain. If he had said “Look, I respect Murkowski, I think she’s a great Senator, I don’t think it’s fair that she’s going to be primaried for voting in accordance with her convictions, she’s a good person” and stopped short of endorsing her, that would be, in my book, annoying but fine. A member of the Democratic Party—a Senator in a tied Senate nonetheless—advocating that a Republican be re-elected, no matter who it is or where they’re from, is flat out unacceptable. And I know he endorsed Collins last year too. Democrats should not be advocating to bring back Republicans—we should be advocating to bring in more Democrats. And we ought to be doing that by advocating against Republicans.

It’s not that I think this is going to seal the deal for Murkowski; that would be silly. It’s the principle that Manchin continues to do this knowing there’s no mechanism in place to stop him because he’s the 50th vote. And a lot of people on here will argue that saying “he’s not a Democrat” is unfair, but I can’t even imagine if Joe Biden came out and literally endorsed a Republican over a Democrat in a Congressional race. It would never happen. Manchin is the only Democrat that does this as often as he does. I understand he’s better than the alternatives in WV, but I’m eager to strengthen the Senate majority so that what he thinks doesn’t matter anymore.

Joe Biden endorsed Fred Upton in 2018 IIRC Tongue

He didn't officially endorse him, he just praised him once at a speaking event. Obviously still not good given how competitive Upton's race was at the time, of course.
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Buffalo Mayor Young Kim
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« Reply #118 on: April 26, 2021, 05:36:53 PM »

RE: Manchin

Meh, it means nothing and might get him some nice free press from conservatives.
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DrScholl
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« Reply #119 on: April 26, 2021, 05:39:46 PM »
« Edited: April 26, 2021, 05:56:18 PM by DrScholl »

She wouldn't do the same for him.
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Anti Democrat Democrat Club
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« Reply #120 on: April 26, 2021, 11:14:00 PM »

Whatever. Murkowski is effectively the most reasonable option we'll get out of Alaska.
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« Reply #121 on: April 26, 2021, 11:26:29 PM »

The only way a Manchin endorsement works out is if Murkowski wins, and she switches parties afterwards, otherwise it's a waste of time for everyone involved. It hurts Murkowski to accept endorsements from Democrats (If I were her, I'd disavow this, unless of course, no Democrats actually run against her, which is possible, I suppose), and it hurts Manchin too, since he won't win a single Republican going forward, and Republicans hate Murkowski anyways. If he wants to curry favor with Republicans, he should be endorsing Marjorie Taylor Greene and Paul Gosar, not Murkowski.
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Secretary of State Liberal Hack
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« Reply #122 on: April 26, 2021, 11:51:56 PM »

You can criticize Joe Manchin politically, but maybe endorsement is just out of personal friendship and not coming from any political motive? It's actually kinda sad there aren't more crossparty friendships in congress anymore, as opposed to 40-50 years ago. If I was a senator and certain blue avatar posters here would be my colleagues, I may also endorse them, especially if said race isn't determining control of the senate. But even in this case, it probably wouldn't matter much for the outcome anyway (Susan Collins obviously didn't win reelection because of Manchin).
Why even run for office in that case ?. Aren't you there to have your ideological inclinations be translated into policy ?
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Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers
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« Reply #123 on: April 27, 2021, 04:21:04 AM »

The only way a Manchin endorsement works out is if Murkowski wins, and she switches parties afterwards, otherwise it's a waste of time for everyone involved. It hurts Murkowski to accept endorsements from Democrats (If I were her, I'd disavow this, unless of course, no Democrats actually run against her, which is possible, I suppose), and it hurts Manchin too, since he won't win a single Republican going forward, and Republicans hate Murkowski anyways. If he wants to curry favor with Republicans, he should be endorsing Marjorie Taylor Greene and Paul Gosar, not Murkowski.


The primary is next yr too so it's a long way til the primarues, anything can happen
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JMT
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« Reply #124 on: June 18, 2021, 01:27:21 PM »

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