Harper's Letter on Justice and Open Debate (user search)
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  Harper's Letter on Justice and Open Debate (search mode)
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Author Topic: Harper's Letter on Justice and Open Debate  (Read 2371 times)
💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)
peenie_weenie
Junior Chimp
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Posts: 5,480
United States


« on: July 07, 2020, 11:16:08 PM »

The letter is not outstandingly written but makes its point well enough to be understood. Could be helped by being more specific and with some better organization. Also doesn't make any effort to explain in any tangible way why "illiberal" thoughts are harmful to anyone outside of elite circles; you can tell who this was written by and for, and it's not any of us.

The problem underlying the entire piece is that persuasion on merits is long-dead; indeed, this is why the letter was written in the first place. Now, persuasion (particularly on hot-button issues) happens mostly by appeal to identity, emotion, and moral authority. This letter is an appeal to a dying form of discourse.

Most of the criticisms are bad faith and willful misreadings that justify the existence of the letter in the first place. Most annoying of these critiques is the guilt-by-association that happens by highlighting the most unsavory positions of 2% of its signatories as an effort to tar the entire letter and by association all those who affixed their names to it. On the other hand, anyone signing the letter knew exactly what they were literally signing up for. Good for them. I don't have the clout or privilege of ending my career by signing something like this.
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💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)
peenie_weenie
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,480
United States


« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2020, 04:25:59 PM »



Accountability to increasingly incendiary mobs who themselves are accountable to nobody? This isn't really a good thing.



Seeing a lot of this view and it treats claims about the current moment as comparative and not absolute and aspirational. Maybe I didn't read the letter closely enough but I don't know why people are treating the analysis like it's comparative. Just because free speech was less open historically doesn't mean that the current climate doesn't produce failures like what the letter vaguely hints at.



Ignoring the obvious fact that tons of signers were non-white and/or women, this point is typically vacuous considering the source (I mean the twitter user, not you). It's not a defense; it's another comparison apropos of nothing that nobody really asked for.



People who can sign are able to do so because of their wealth and status; this is something that the signers are pretty candid about. There are lots of other people who did not sign because they do not have the standing or privilege to do so. There's a selection bias here. People who use this line of complaint either don't understand this or are purposefully being disingenuous because they have been trained by modern discourse to think highlighting privilege is a sufficient rebuttal to any argument. It's not.
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💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)
peenie_weenie
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,480
United States


« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2020, 07:36:29 PM »

The rest we'll have to disagree on. I think they are important observations and also indicate some of why this is happening now.

Sure, I think it's good historical context for broad understanding, but I don't see it as effectively rebutting anything in the letter.

In addition, the "cancellation" of minorities has also been unaccountable to anyone, either. Who could be the correct source for accountability? I don't think there is one. In democracy, we turn to "the people" for accountability, so a "mob" is an accurate representation of our society insomuch as there can be an accurate representation of people who are kept from power via disenfranchisement. American government is not holding bigots accountable, and even those trying to go through the current channels to fix that issue are being blockaded.

Beyond the first sentence, I can't agree with this. Democratization is happening due to social media, which is good in some respects, but has a lot of negative consequences. The big three American social media platforms (Twitter, Facebook, Instagram) have designed themselves in ways that either promote disinformation (Facebook) or incentivize users into nasty dogpiling, context-flattening, and give disproportionate and overrepresentative voice to extreme viewpoints (Youtube does this too).  Given that this is the medium through which mobs operate in 2020, there is no think these platforms are going to be any sort of fair or representative mechanism for justice.

Put another way, I don't want twitter/facebook mobs running the country any more than I want them running who publishes at the Times. We effectively have a Facebook President right now. It's not going so well. You can think we're facing widespread institutional rot (because we are) but that doesn't mean you replace the institutions with an app with a bird logo.

In addition, there is no attack on freedom of speech. People can and will say what they want. I find that premise to be completely laughable and that's part of why I find this letter so pretentious. Yes, the public, especially on Twitter, is holding people accountable for what they say, but that is not an infringement of free speech. To use a very obviously example, if I were to call someone the n-word, I would be shunned by people of good conscience, because I would have displayed my thoughts on Black folks. What is happening beyond that that requires such an outcry?

What I am concerned about is disproportionate punishment for transgressions. Online mobs premised around public shaming are purposefully vindictive and seek to produce lifetime consequences for people with no standard for redemption or rehabilitation. You don't need to think "free speech" is under attack to be inherently distrusting of a culture that promotes these norms. I find the cancellation movement abhorrent because I value fair and restorative justice, not because I'm especially interested in the opinions of transphobes.

Speaking of which...

If people like JK Rowling are upset that people don't want to put up with their bigotry, okay, fine. But don't blame a lack of free speech or claim you're being silenced or that it's an "illiberal culture." It's people being tired of dealing with bigotry and explaining why it's bad and cutting you out of their lives and letting others know that you want to keep spouting bigotry. This pandemic has us all exhausted, and knowing that someone likes to say awful stuff means I can avoid having to deal with them and save myself some energy.

I'm not especially interested in Frums, Gladwells, Weisses, etc. of the list. The vast majority of signatories are people who have committed no easily-identifiable transgressions. A letter that was signed only by J.K. Rowling would be uninteresting. A letter that is signed by writers, researchers, journalists who a healthy liberal society relies on saying they feel unable to perform their work in the current climate is what makes this worth taking seriously.
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