SENATE BILL: Freedom to Roam Act (Failed)
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  SENATE BILL: Freedom to Roam Act (Failed)
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Author Topic: SENATE BILL: Freedom to Roam Act (Failed)  (Read 2663 times)
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« on: July 07, 2020, 02:05:44 AM »
« edited: September 19, 2020, 01:37:10 AM by Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee »

Quote
SENATE BILL
To codify into law the right of all people to roam and walk the Atalsian countryside, as well as to establish some reasonable limitations on this right

Be it enacted in both Houses of Congress Assembled,

Quote
Section 1: Name
1. This bill may be referred to as the "Freedom to Roam Act"

Section 2: The Right to Roam
1. Every person in the Republic of Atlasia shall have a recognized right to roam and travel across the country, including through means of transport such as by foot, by bicycle, on horseback or with the use of canoes
2. The Atlasian federal government may not impede entrance to federally owned lands other than active military bases, unless there is a compelling national security reason or public interest reason
3. Land owners may impede entrance to areas used actively used for housing, farming or livestock, but they may not impede entrance to any undeveloped or unimproved pieces of land nor to any rivers or lakes in the property, unless said lakes are completely surrounded by areas used actively for the purposes described before.
4. Land Owners shall clearly mark the perimeter of the areas used actively for housing, farming or livestock, as well as provide a path around the areas of their property used for said purposes.
5. People roaming on private property or federal land may not perform any sort of commercial activity while roaming
6. People roaming on private property shall not be allowed to hunt, fish or pick any wild fruits, without the consent of the owner. This right may also be restricted on federal lands (including but not limited to national parks) by the department responsible of internal policy.
7. People roaming shall have the right to set up a camp and sleep for 1 night, but may not sleep in the same spot, nor any spot in a 1 mile radius from their last camping spot, for consecutive nights
8. Nothing in this bill shall be construed as to legalize or otherwise enable destructive activities towards nature, including but not limited to damaging trees or bushes, damaging the habitats and nests of wildlife or polluting nature

Section 3: Enactment
1. This bill shall become enacted immediately after passage

Sponsor: Tack50
Senate Designation: SB 25:08
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2020, 02:12:18 AM »

Initial Debate Period, sponsor advocacy time
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Former President tack50
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« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2020, 05:00:24 AM »

Well, during the lockdown period, I started to go on long walks around my house (after it was legalized, during much of the period even that was illegal).

Anyways, there I noticed the relatively large amounts of unused land which presumably has an owner as well as just how much land was blocked off. I also was inspired by finding about this principle that is most characteristic of Scandinavia.

This bill tries to incorporate that Scandinavian principle into Atlasia. Tbh I probably messed it up in the process but I suppose maybe in the House things can get fixed.

This bill essencially allows farmers and what not to only block off currently improved land, but not unimproved wilderness nor access to rivers or lakes unless they are encircled by improved land. It also establishes limitations on the people walking (no hunting on private property or national parks, people are still banned from active military bases, etc)
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2020, 12:14:32 AM »

Why would the house need to fix it, we can amend in the Senate too Tack, before we pass something? Tongue


I have some concerns about clause three. And not just with the whole "areas used actively used" wording issues, which need to be fixed here not in the House. When I was House Speaker, I loathed receiving trashy Senate bills.

Beyond that concern, I am worried about the risk of damage to private property that could occur via littering, arson, negligence or polluting. The bill does a hand wave with number 8, but even if that is the case there is the issue of liability and also recouping loss. Just because the bill says it is still not allowed, we aren't providing any assurance that any damage will be fixed or repaired or monetary value of such forfeited.

Since we are forcing them to allow these people onto their land with little in the way of tangible or concrete means to protect such people, this means that such land could be damaged or rendered unusable down the road and thus cost the owner lost earning from said land, or value of said land at a future sale.
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Esteemed Jimmy
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« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2020, 12:16:49 AM »

I can't support this bill. As someone from a rural area, I can tell you this will cause so many problems.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2020, 12:51:01 AM »

I am discussing the possibility of an amendment to Section 8 with top men on this subject, but it might not be practical to offer that until I get home tomorrow since I have to get up earlier than normal tomorrow.

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Former President tack50
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« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2020, 05:06:00 AM »

Why would the house need to fix it, we can amend in the Senate too Tack, before we pass something? Tongue


I have some concerns about clause three. And not just with the whole "areas used actively used" wording issues, which need to be fixed here not in the House. When I was House Speaker, I loathed receiving trashy Senate bills.

Beyond that concern, I am worried about the risk of damage to private property that could occur via littering, arson, negligence or polluting. The bill does a hand wave with number 8, but even if that is the case there is the issue of liability and also recouping loss. Just because the bill says it is still not allowed, we aren't providing any assurance that any damage will be fixed or repaired or monetary value of such forfeited.

Since we are forcing them to allow these people onto their land with little in the way of tangible or concrete means to protect such people, this means that such land could be damaged or rendered unusable down the road and thus cost the owner lost earning from said land, or value of said land at a future sale.

My thought was that since this was a Scandinavia-inspired bill, Elcaspar could help when he received it in the House, but I suppose nothing stops him from coming here Tongue (I will send him a PM just in case)

I agree that maybe there should be stronger protections about damage to private property like littering, arson and negligence. I would certainly support an amendment that allows for easier prosecution of those crimes and/or forces infractors to pay up for the property damage they caused.

Re: Areas actively used, I suppose maybe it could be changed to some other wording?

I can't support this bill. As someone from a rural area, I can tell you this will cause so many problems.

Could you further specify what problems this would cause? (as an urbanite myself, even if I live more in like a suburb Tongue )
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2020, 06:00:00 PM »

Quote from: Amendment Offered
SENATE BILL
To codify into law the right of all people to roam and walk the Atlasian countryside, as well as to establish some reasonable limitations on this right

Be it enacted in both Houses of Congress Assembled,

Quote
Section 1: Name
1. This bill may be referred to as the "Freedom to Roam Act"

Section 2: The Right to Roam
1. Every person in the Republic of Atlasia shall have a recognized right to roam and travel across the country, including through means of transport such as by foot, by bicycle, on horseback or with the use of canoes
2. The Atlasian federal government may not impede entrance to federally owned lands other than active military bases, unless there is a compelling national security reason or public interest reason
3. Land owners may impede entrance to areas used actively used for housing, farming or livestock, but they may not impede entrance to any undeveloped or unimproved pieces of land nor to any rivers or lakes in the property, unless said lakes are completely surrounded by areas used actively for the purposes described before.
4. Land Owners shall clearly mark the perimeter of the areas used actively for housing, farming or livestock, as well as provide a path around the areas of their property used for said purposes.
5. People roaming on private property or federal land may not perform any sort of commercial activity while roaming
6. People roaming on private property shall not be allowed to hunt, fish or pick any wild fruits, without the consent of the owner. This right may also be restricted on federal lands (including but not limited to national parks) by the department responsible of internal policy.
7. People roaming shall have the right to set up a camp and sleep for 1 night, but may not sleep in the same spot, nor any spot in a 1 mile radius from their last camping spot, for consecutive nights
8. Nothing in this bill shall be construed as to legalize or otherwise enable destructive activities towards nature, including but not limited to damaging trees or bushes, damaging the habitats and nests of wildlife or polluting nature. People roaming shall also be subject to financial liability for any of the above mentioned destructive activities.

Section 3: Enactment
1. This bill shall become enacted immediately after passage
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Former President tack50
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« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2020, 06:00:34 PM »

The amendment is friendly
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2020, 11:14:59 AM »

Senators have 24 hours to object.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2020, 12:55:31 PM »

The amendment is adopted.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2020, 10:48:01 PM »

So we done here?
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« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2020, 10:49:24 PM »

I can't support this bill. As someone from a rural area, I can tell you this will cause so many problems.

Care to elaborate? I’m undecided here.
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Esteemed Jimmy
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« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2020, 10:44:42 PM »
« Edited: July 21, 2020, 10:49:48 PM by Esteemed Senator Jimmy7812 »

I can't support this bill. As someone from a rural area, I can tell you this will cause so many problems.

Care to elaborate? I’m undecided here.

This bill undermines the whole point of owning private property, if a person can trespass and basically do almost whatever they want on it. Also, just because a person owns land that is undeveloped doesn't make it a lesser type of property.

Dumping garbage and littering on peoples' property are already huge problems in the areas around me from people doing illegal things. Section 7 will be basically impossible to enforce, unless you have cameras all over your property anyone caught will say they never camped on your land before. The things Section 6 and 8 of this bill already happen a lot and go unpunished, so making it easier for people to do this by making it impossible to keep them off your property will make matters worse.

The problems with this bill can only be fully understood if you live in or near a township with like 40-50 people per square mile (or even less).
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Former President tack50
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« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2020, 12:06:22 PM »

So if I understand correctly the camping provision should be removed?

As for sections 6 and 8, I don't think this bill will affect them much more than it currently happens.

I will say that people are not really allowed to "do whatever they want". I suppose maybe a provision to stop people from using fire or creating barbeques might need to be added but other than that I can't think of anything else that would be destructive and that would also be illegal.

Really this bill only makes it so that if you own a random piece of forest and are doing nothing with it, you need to let people go through it. I don't think people should impede access to your land if you are not going to use it for anything and are just going to sit there with it.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2020, 03:21:43 AM »

So if I understand correctly the camping provision should be removed?

Is this an amendment from either you or Jimmy that is expected?
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2020, 07:41:59 PM »

So if I understand correctly the camping provision should be removed?

Is this an amendment from either you or Jimmy that is expected?
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« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2020, 08:13:38 PM »

I thought Jimmy was going to be the one to introduce it but I can do it if he doesn't want and we need a compromise
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Esteemed Jimmy
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« Reply #18 on: August 11, 2020, 11:37:28 PM »

Proposal:

Quote from: Amendment Offered
SENATE BILL
To codify into law the right of all people to roam and walk the Atlasian countryside, as well as to establish some reasonable limitations on this right

Be it enacted in both Houses of Congress Assembled,

Quote
Section 1: Name
1. This bill may be referred to as the "Freedom to Roam Act"

Section 2: The Right to Roam
1. Every person in the Republic of Atlasia shall have a recognized right to roam and travel across the country, including through means of transport such as by foot, by bicycle, on horseback or with the use of canoes
2. The Atlasian federal government may not impede entrance to federally owned lands other than active military bases, unless there is a compelling national security reason or public interest reason
3. Land owners may impede entrance to areas used actively used for housing, farming or livestock, but they may not impede entrance to any undeveloped or unimproved pieces of land nor to any rivers or lakes in the property, unless said lakes are completely surrounded by areas used actively for the purposes described before.
4. Land Owners shall clearly mark the perimeter of the areas used actively for housing, farming or livestock, as well as provide a path around the areas of their property used for said purposes.
5. People roaming on private property or federal land may not perform any sort of commercial activity while roaming
6. People roaming on private property shall not be allowed to hunt, fish or pick any wild fruits, without the consent of the owner. This right may also be restricted on federal lands (including but not limited to national parks) by the department responsible of internal policy.
7. People roaming shall have the right to set up a camp and sleep for 1 night, but may not sleep in the same spot, nor any spot in a 1 mile radius from their last camping spot, for consecutive nights

3. Nothing in this bill shall be construed as to legalize or otherwise enable destructive activities towards nature, including but not limited to damaging trees or bushes, damaging the habitats and nests of wildlife or polluting nature. People roaming shall also be subject to financial liability for any of the above mentioned destructive activities.

Section 3: Enactment
1. This bill shall become enacted immediately after passage
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Former President tack50
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« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2020, 03:15:00 AM »

Well I object

This nukes most of the bill. I suppose no room for compromises here Tongue
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #20 on: August 15, 2020, 12:13:27 AM »

A vote is now open on the Amendment, Senators please vote Aye, Nay or Abstain.
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« Reply #21 on: August 15, 2020, 09:16:38 AM »

Nay
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Esteemed Jimmy
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« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2020, 01:08:58 PM »

Aye
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« Reply #23 on: August 16, 2020, 01:44:34 PM »

Nay
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« Reply #24 on: August 17, 2020, 03:04:19 AM »

Aye
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