Pelosi, Biden say there is a difference between removing Confederate leaders, past presidents
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  Pelosi, Biden say there is a difference between removing Confederate leaders, past presidents
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Author Topic: Pelosi, Biden say there is a difference between removing Confederate leaders, past presidents  (Read 2542 times)
Tartarus Sauce
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« Reply #25 on: July 03, 2020, 05:31:57 PM »

What to do with John Tyler then?

I have an idea of where Pelosi would go with him, considering she took down portraits of Speakers of the House who had any connection to the Confederacy, even those who were not mainly known for their Confederate connection.

This on the other hand, is the part where Democratic leadership still needs to iron out its position more intelligently. The Confederate monuments need to come down because they glorify a monstrous cause, but the removal of the portraits of four speakers that at some point served in the Confederate government (three after their speakership and one before) was unnecessary. Their portraits are standard institutional commemorations for their time served as House speaker, not Confederate memorabilia.
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« Reply #26 on: July 03, 2020, 06:50:23 PM »

Completely agree with both of them. There is a world of difference between the founders of the United States and the leaders of the CSA. The founders established a system whose ideological underpinnings would spearhead the push towards abolition, whether particular founders owned slaves or not. The leaders of the CSA were willing to literally rip apart the American experiment for the express purpose of keeping blacks in chains. These are fundamentally different.
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NewYorkExpress
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« Reply #27 on: July 03, 2020, 06:51:16 PM »

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/not-all-statues-are-the-same-pelosi-says-theres-a-difference-between-removing-confederate-leaders-past-presidents

Quote
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi Thursday made a distinction between taking down statues of Confederate leaders and those of past U.S. presidents who were slaveowners.


Pelosi has spearheaded an effort to take down 11 statues in the Capitol of Confederate leaders but stopped short Thursday of disavowing statues of President Thomas Jefferson and President George Washington, whom some activists say should no longer be enshrined since they owned enslaved persons.

"It's not about Washington and Jefferson, it's about Alexander Stephens," Pelosi said at a Capitol press conference.

<Snip>

Former Vice President Joe Biden also distinguished between statues honoring the pro-slavery Confederacy and other historic figures who have fallen out of favor. In a press conference Tuesday, Biden said the federal government has an obligation to protect certain monuments, like Washington and Jefferson.


I'm going to have disagree with Pelosi and Biden here. If you were a slaveowner you should be unpersoned from society.


Would you support demolishing the Washington Monument and the Jefferson Memorial? Because that is where your line of thought leads. Your viewpoint would have it that we would subscribe the memory of most of our Presidents up to and after the Civil War. Such a proscription would also include Ulysses S. Grant, who owned slaves at one point in his life.

The Washington Monument isn't a statue, but yes. We, as a society should have evolved to have stop venerating people who owned other people.
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Calthrina950
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« Reply #28 on: July 03, 2020, 06:56:13 PM »

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/not-all-statues-are-the-same-pelosi-says-theres-a-difference-between-removing-confederate-leaders-past-presidents

Quote
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi Thursday made a distinction between taking down statues of Confederate leaders and those of past U.S. presidents who were slaveowners.


Pelosi has spearheaded an effort to take down 11 statues in the Capitol of Confederate leaders but stopped short Thursday of disavowing statues of President Thomas Jefferson and President George Washington, whom some activists say should no longer be enshrined since they owned enslaved persons.

"It's not about Washington and Jefferson, it's about Alexander Stephens," Pelosi said at a Capitol press conference.

<Snip>

Former Vice President Joe Biden also distinguished between statues honoring the pro-slavery Confederacy and other historic figures who have fallen out of favor. In a press conference Tuesday, Biden said the federal government has an obligation to protect certain monuments, like Washington and Jefferson.


I'm going to have disagree with Pelosi and Biden here. If you were a slaveowner you should be unpersoned from society.


Would you support demolishing the Washington Monument and the Jefferson Memorial? Because that is where your line of thought leads. Your viewpoint would have it that we would subscribe the memory of most of our Presidents up to and after the Civil War. Such a proscription would also include Ulysses S. Grant, who owned slaves at one point in his life.

The Washington Monument isn't a statue, but yes. We, as a society should have evolved to have stop venerating people who owned other people.

Then, following upon this, I suspect you want to tear down the entire country's system of government, then? Since the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence (and the Bill of Rights...) were in large part written by slaveowners, we can't have them guiding us anymore, now can we? To truly purge ourselves of the evils of our country's history, we need to discard these documents, and write completely new ones.

Moreover, we must rename Washington D.C.-what about the Douglass Commonwealth? We also need to rewrite our history textbooks, to blot out the names of slaveowners. Perhaps we should start American history after the Civil War, and move onwards. The point I'm trying to make is that if you truly want to stop "venerating slaveowners", you'll have to do much more than dismantling some monuments. It would require purging much of our history, which would defeat the effort of it. Rather, we should educate people on what was done, while not going to the extent of dismantling all tradition.

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NewYorkExpress
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« Reply #29 on: July 03, 2020, 07:07:00 PM »

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/not-all-statues-are-the-same-pelosi-says-theres-a-difference-between-removing-confederate-leaders-past-presidents

Quote
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi Thursday made a distinction between taking down statues of Confederate leaders and those of past U.S. presidents who were slaveowners.


Pelosi has spearheaded an effort to take down 11 statues in the Capitol of Confederate leaders but stopped short Thursday of disavowing statues of President Thomas Jefferson and President George Washington, whom some activists say should no longer be enshrined since they owned enslaved persons.

"It's not about Washington and Jefferson, it's about Alexander Stephens," Pelosi said at a Capitol press conference.

<Snip>

Former Vice President Joe Biden also distinguished between statues honoring the pro-slavery Confederacy and other historic figures who have fallen out of favor. In a press conference Tuesday, Biden said the federal government has an obligation to protect certain monuments, like Washington and Jefferson.


I'm going to have disagree with Pelosi and Biden here. If you were a slaveowner you should be unpersoned from society.


Would you support demolishing the Washington Monument and the Jefferson Memorial? Because that is where your line of thought leads. Your viewpoint would have it that we would subscribe the memory of most of our Presidents up to and after the Civil War. Such a proscription would also include Ulysses S. Grant, who owned slaves at one point in his life.

The Washington Monument isn't a statue, but yes. We, as a society should have evolved to have stop venerating people who owned other people.

Then, following upon this, I suspect you want to tear down the entire country's system of government, then? Since the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence (and the Bill of Rights...) were in large part written by slaveowners, we can't have them guiding us anymore, now can we? To truly purge ourselves of the evils of our country's history, we need to discard these documents, and write completely new ones.

Moreover, we must rename Washington D.C.-what about the Douglass Commonwealth? We also need to rewrite our history textbooks, to blot out the names of slaveowners. Perhaps we should start American history after the Civil War, and move onwards. The point I'm trying to make is that if you truly want to stop "venerating slaveowners", you'll have to do much more than dismantling some monuments. It would require purging much of our history, which would defeat the effort of it. Rather, we should educate people on what was done, while not going to the extent of dismantling all tradition.



The Bill of Rights and the Constitution are probably where I would draw the line.

As for renaming Washington D.C. Just drop the Washington, and change the Columbia to something else. District of ____ makes sense to me.
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Calthrina950
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« Reply #30 on: July 03, 2020, 07:12:39 PM »

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/not-all-statues-are-the-same-pelosi-says-theres-a-difference-between-removing-confederate-leaders-past-presidents

Quote
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi Thursday made a distinction between taking down statues of Confederate leaders and those of past U.S. presidents who were slaveowners.


Pelosi has spearheaded an effort to take down 11 statues in the Capitol of Confederate leaders but stopped short Thursday of disavowing statues of President Thomas Jefferson and President George Washington, whom some activists say should no longer be enshrined since they owned enslaved persons.

"It's not about Washington and Jefferson, it's about Alexander Stephens," Pelosi said at a Capitol press conference.

<Snip>

Former Vice President Joe Biden also distinguished between statues honoring the pro-slavery Confederacy and other historic figures who have fallen out of favor. In a press conference Tuesday, Biden said the federal government has an obligation to protect certain monuments, like Washington and Jefferson.


I'm going to have disagree with Pelosi and Biden here. If you were a slaveowner you should be unpersoned from society.


Would you support demolishing the Washington Monument and the Jefferson Memorial? Because that is where your line of thought leads. Your viewpoint would have it that we would subscribe the memory of most of our Presidents up to and after the Civil War. Such a proscription would also include Ulysses S. Grant, who owned slaves at one point in his life.

The Washington Monument isn't a statue, but yes. We, as a society should have evolved to have stop venerating people who owned other people.

Then, following upon this, I suspect you want to tear down the entire country's system of government, then? Since the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence (and the Bill of Rights...) were in large part written by slaveowners, we can't have them guiding us anymore, now can we? To truly purge ourselves of the evils of our country's history, we need to discard these documents, and write completely new ones.

Moreover, we must rename Washington D.C.-what about the Douglass Commonwealth? We also need to rewrite our history textbooks, to blot out the names of slaveowners. Perhaps we should start American history after the Civil War, and move onwards. The point I'm trying to make is that if you truly want to stop "venerating slaveowners", you'll have to do much more than dismantling some monuments. It would require purging much of our history, which would defeat the effort of it. Rather, we should educate people on what was done, while not going to the extent of dismantling all tradition.



The Bill of Rights and the Constitution are probably where I would draw the line.

As for renaming Washington D.C. Just drop the Washington, and change the Columbia to something else. District of ____ makes sense to me.

I'm glad that you would at least preserve these documents, even though George Washington and James Madison (two prominent slaveholders and early Presidents), had a role in their formulation. But I'm still concerned about your support for a purist drive of removing all "taints of evil" from our country's history. I highly doubt most Americans would support going this far, and this is exactly the kind of issue that would play into Republican hands. Purging symbols and figures of the Confederacy would seem to be the appropriate solution for me.
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SWE
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« Reply #31 on: July 03, 2020, 07:17:43 PM »

Such a proscription would also include Ulysses S. Grant, who owned slaves at one point in his life.

Slaves, plural? You really should do at least a bare minimum level of research before you equate someone who was given a single slave against his will who he freed with other slaveowners.
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beaver2.0
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« Reply #32 on: July 03, 2020, 07:18:09 PM »

first things first, change the name of the country, vespucci was a slave trader.
Yes, but at this point the name America has taken on a name of its own in my eyes.
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Calthrina950
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« Reply #33 on: July 03, 2020, 07:21:20 PM »

Such a proscription would also include Ulysses S. Grant, who owned slaves at one point in his life.

Slaves, plural? You really should do at least a bare minimum level of research before you equate someone who was given a single slave against his will who he freed with other slaveowners.

A mistake on my part, and a needlessly hostile reaction from you, I might add. I'm very well aware that Ulysses S. Grant freed his only slave. That's exactly why I mentioned him. The point I was trying to make is that several of our early Presidents who had a part in slavery, ought to be judged on the whole of their records, not merely on the fact that they were slaveholders. This goes for Washington, for Jefferson, for Madison, for Jackson, for Polk, for Taylor, and for Grant.
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Mr. Reactionary
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« Reply #34 on: July 03, 2020, 07:38:43 PM »

I'm going to have disagree with Pelosi and Biden here. If you were a slaveowner you should be unpersoned from society.

Does this include noted slave owner Muhammad, Prophet of the Muslim faith? Can we tear down the Dome of the Rock now?
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« Reply #35 on: July 03, 2020, 08:03:39 PM »

Completely agree with both of them. There is a world of difference between the founders of the United States and the leaders of the CSA. The founders established a system whose ideological underpinnings would spearhead the push towards abolition, whether particular founders owned slaves or not. The leaders of the CSA were willing to literally rip apart the American experiment for the express purpose of keeping blacks in chains. These are fundamentally different.
You're back, buddy!

Long time no see. How have you been?
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NewYorkExpress
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« Reply #36 on: July 03, 2020, 08:05:33 PM »

I'm going to have disagree with Pelosi and Biden here. If you were a slaveowner you should be unpersoned from society.

Does this include noted slave owner Muhammad, Prophet of the Muslim faith? Can we tear down the Dome of the Rock now?

As much as I'd like to say yes...I'd like to focus on American society before cleaning up the Middle East.
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TPIG
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« Reply #37 on: July 03, 2020, 08:33:17 PM »

Completely agree with both of them. There is a world of difference between the founders of the United States and the leaders of the CSA. The founders established a system whose ideological underpinnings would spearhead the push towards abolition, whether particular founders owned slaves or not. The leaders of the CSA were willing to literally rip apart the American experiment for the express purpose of keeping blacks in chains. These are fundamentally different.
You're back, buddy!

Long time no see. How have you been?

Been doing well! The forum's seductive song always calls me back at some point! Smile
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Fuzzy Stands With His Friend, Chairman Sanchez
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« Reply #38 on: July 03, 2020, 08:51:58 PM »

I'm going to have disagree with Pelosi and Biden here. If you were a slaveowner you should be unpersoned from society.

Does this include noted slave owner Muhammad, Prophet of the Muslim faith? Can we tear down the Dome of the Rock now?

As much as I'd like to say yes...I'd like to focus on American society before cleaning up the Middle East.

Millions of Americans consider this slaveowner God's Prophet.  What will you tell those Americans whose houses of worship have statues of that particular slaveowner? 

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but when you make statements you make, this is where you end up.
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lfromnj
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« Reply #39 on: July 03, 2020, 08:56:39 PM »

I'm going to have disagree with Pelosi and Biden here. If you were a slaveowner you should be unpersoned from society.

Does this include noted slave owner Muhammad, Prophet of the Muslim faith? Can we tear down the Dome of the Rock now?

As much as I'd like to say yes...I'd like to focus on American society before cleaning up the Middle East.

Millions of Americans consider this slaveowner God's Prophet.  What will you tell those Americans whose houses of worship have statues of that particular slaveowner?  

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but when you make statements you make, this is where you end up.
Peak boomer fuzzy moment
No muslim has a statue of Muhammad although I see your point.
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Hammy
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« Reply #40 on: July 03, 2020, 09:12:51 PM »
« Edited: July 03, 2020, 09:20:47 PM by Hammy »

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/not-all-statues-are-the-same-pelosi-says-theres-a-difference-between-removing-confederate-leaders-past-presidents

Quote
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi Thursday made a distinction between taking down statues of Confederate leaders and those of past U.S. presidents who were slaveowners.


Pelosi has spearheaded an effort to take down 11 statues in the Capitol of Confederate leaders but stopped short Thursday of disavowing statues of President Thomas Jefferson and President George Washington, whom some activists say should no longer be enshrined since they owned enslaved persons.

"It's not about Washington and Jefferson, it's about Alexander Stephens," Pelosi said at a Capitol press conference.

<Snip>

Former Vice President Joe Biden also distinguished between statues honoring the pro-slavery Confederacy and other historic figures who have fallen out of favor. In a press conference Tuesday, Biden said the federal government has an obligation to protect certain monuments, like Washington and Jefferson.


I'm going to have disagree with Pelosi and Biden here. If you were a slaveowner you should be unpersoned from society.


Would you support demolishing the Washington Monument and the Jefferson Memorial? Because that is where your line of thought leads. Your viewpoint would have it that we would subscribe the memory of most of our Presidents up to and after the Civil War. Such a proscription would also include Ulysses S. Grant, who owned slaves at one point in his life.

The Washington Monument isn't a statue, but yes. We, as a society should have evolved to have stop venerating people who owned other people.

Then, following upon this, I suspect you want to tear down the entire country's system of government, then? Since the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence (and the Bill of Rights...) were in large part written by slaveowners, we can't have them guiding us anymore, now can we? To truly purge ourselves of the evils of our country's history, we need to discard these documents, and write completely new ones.


To be fair we have made changes to the constitution on a routine basis up until recently, doing away with the evils of the time (repealing slavery and the apportionment being based on blacks being 3/5 of a person being the most prominent examples.)
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Calthrina950
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« Reply #41 on: July 03, 2020, 09:25:33 PM »

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/not-all-statues-are-the-same-pelosi-says-theres-a-difference-between-removing-confederate-leaders-past-presidents

Quote
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi Thursday made a distinction between taking down statues of Confederate leaders and those of past U.S. presidents who were slaveowners.


Pelosi has spearheaded an effort to take down 11 statues in the Capitol of Confederate leaders but stopped short Thursday of disavowing statues of President Thomas Jefferson and President George Washington, whom some activists say should no longer be enshrined since they owned enslaved persons.

"It's not about Washington and Jefferson, it's about Alexander Stephens," Pelosi said at a Capitol press conference.

<Snip>

Former Vice President Joe Biden also distinguished between statues honoring the pro-slavery Confederacy and other historic figures who have fallen out of favor. In a press conference Tuesday, Biden said the federal government has an obligation to protect certain monuments, like Washington and Jefferson.


I'm going to have disagree with Pelosi and Biden here. If you were a slaveowner you should be unpersoned from society.


Would you support demolishing the Washington Monument and the Jefferson Memorial? Because that is where your line of thought leads. Your viewpoint would have it that we would subscribe the memory of most of our Presidents up to and after the Civil War. Such a proscription would also include Ulysses S. Grant, who owned slaves at one point in his life.

The Washington Monument isn't a statue, but yes. We, as a society should have evolved to have stop venerating people who owned other people.

Then, following upon this, I suspect you want to tear down the entire country's system of government, then? Since the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence (and the Bill of Rights...) were in large part written by slaveowners, we can't have them guiding us anymore, now can we? To truly purge ourselves of the evils of our country's history, we need to discard these documents, and write completely new ones.


To be fair we have made changes to the constitution on a routine basis up until recently, doing away with the evils of the time (repealing slavery and the apportionment being based on blacks being 3/5 of a person being the most prominent examples.)

You're correct, and this is another reason why our founding documents need to be preserved. We have recognized the flaws which were inherent in them, and have sought to correct them (and hopefully, will continue to correct them). I was posing this hypothetical to NewYorkExpress so as to get a sense of how far he would be willing to go, to purge our nation of the figures and symbols who were involved in slavery, but provided major contributions towards our country's development.
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NewYorkExpress
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« Reply #42 on: July 03, 2020, 09:30:09 PM »

I'm going to have disagree with Pelosi and Biden here. If you were a slaveowner you should be unpersoned from society.

Does this include noted slave owner Muhammad, Prophet of the Muslim faith? Can we tear down the Dome of the Rock now?

As much as I'd like to say yes...I'd like to focus on American society before cleaning up the Middle East.

Millions of Americans consider this slaveowner God's Prophet.  What will you tell those Americans whose houses of worship have statues of that particular slaveowner? 

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but when you make statements you make, this is where you end up.

I'm pretty sure having statues of people is forbidden by Islam.
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Fuzzy Stands With His Friend, Chairman Sanchez
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« Reply #43 on: July 03, 2020, 09:50:53 PM »

I'm going to have disagree with Pelosi and Biden here. If you were a slaveowner you should be unpersoned from society.

Does this include noted slave owner Muhammad, Prophet of the Muslim faith? Can we tear down the Dome of the Rock now?

As much as I'd like to say yes...I'd like to focus on American society before cleaning up the Middle East.

Millions of Americans consider this slaveowner God's Prophet.  What will you tell those Americans whose houses of worship have statues of that particular slaveowner? 

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but when you make statements you make, this is where you end up.

I'm pretty sure having statues of people is forbidden by Islam.

Still, the millions of American Muslims are part of a religion where the Prophet of God was a slaveowner?  Why shouldn't Mohammed be given the Cancel Culture treatment?

Of course, the above-statement is ridiculous.  But how much more is is Cancelling Mohammed when compared to Cancelling George Washington?
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Hammy
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« Reply #44 on: July 03, 2020, 09:54:09 PM »

I'm going to have disagree with Pelosi and Biden here. If you were a slaveowner you should be unpersoned from society.

Does this include noted slave owner Muhammad, Prophet of the Muslim faith? Can we tear down the Dome of the Rock now?

As much as I'd like to say yes...I'd like to focus on American society before cleaning up the Middle East.

Millions of Americans consider this slaveowner God's Prophet.  What will you tell those Americans whose houses of worship have statues of that particular slaveowner? 

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but when you make statements you make, this is where you end up.

I'm pretty sure having statues of people is forbidden by Islam.

Still, the millions of American Muslims are part of a religion where the Prophet of God was a slaveowner?  Why shouldn't Mohammed be given the Cancel Culture treatment?

Of course, the above-statement is ridiculous.  But how much more is is Cancelling Mohammed when compared to Cancelling George Washington?

Last time I checked there weren't literally thousands of monuments and statues of Mohammad around the country, nor states named after him, so your argument makes no sense.
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NewYorkExpress
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« Reply #45 on: July 03, 2020, 09:56:13 PM »

I'm going to have disagree with Pelosi and Biden here. If you were a slaveowner you should be unpersoned from society.

Does this include noted slave owner Muhammad, Prophet of the Muslim faith? Can we tear down the Dome of the Rock now?

As much as I'd like to say yes...I'd like to focus on American society before cleaning up the Middle East.

Millions of Americans consider this slaveowner God's Prophet.  What will you tell those Americans whose houses of worship have statues of that particular slaveowner? 

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but when you make statements you make, this is where you end up.

I'm pretty sure having statues of people is forbidden by Islam.

Still, the millions of American Muslims are part of a religion where the Prophet of God was a slaveowner?  Why shouldn't Mohammed be given the Cancel Culture treatment?

Of course, the above-statement is ridiculous.  But how much more is is Cancelling Mohammed when compared to Cancelling George Washington?

Giving any religion the Cancel Culture treatment violates the Bill of Rights, which I just said I would keep in an earlier post.

Regardless of their warts and flaws, Islam is a legitimate religion, and should be respected as such.
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« Reply #46 on: July 03, 2020, 10:09:53 PM »

That difference being that one group committed treason against the United States, and the others did not.  Seems clear enough to me.  No one put up a statue of Benedict Arnold -why should we tolerate statues of Confederate leaders?  They should all be taken down.  Lawfully, of course -there is a process that should be followed, however slow and frustrating it may be.   
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Mr. Reactionary
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« Reply #47 on: July 03, 2020, 10:32:14 PM »

I'm going to have disagree with Pelosi and Biden here. If you were a slaveowner you should be unpersoned from society.

Does this include noted slave owner Muhammad, Prophet of the Muslim faith? Can we tear down the Dome of the Rock now?

As much as I'd like to say yes...I'd like to focus on American society before cleaning up the Middle East.

There is a sculpture of the Prophet Muhammad literally in the Supreme Court Chamber.

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Koharu
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« Reply #48 on: July 03, 2020, 10:49:28 PM »
« Edited: July 03, 2020, 10:55:52 PM by Koharu »

Sigh. Of course they did.

Can we just admit that no one is perfect and while it's really good to have role models and people to look up to, hero-worship is stupid abd being obsessed with keeping statues up doesn't encourage discussion about a person's failings.

Like, seriously. Imagine being a member of the Lakota people and going to a college where there's a big ol' statue of Lincoln in front of the building you go to class in. You know from the outset that you're in a place where hero-worship is going to overshadow any discussion you might try to have about the discussion of American violence against indigenous people.

So even more, to be of a minority endangered or hurt by one of these past leaders, but we have to keep their statues in places of importance because people want to idolize them? Yep, that's totally a place where you're going to feel like your voice is just as valid and important as anyone else's and no one will paint over the parts of history that are uncomfortable to them and be open to discussing how important people screwed over minorites thus affecting your life still even though it was decades or centuries ago.

We don't need statues to remember history. We do need to talk about how all humans are human and we all make mistakes. You can do great things and still be a bigoted buttmunch. It's going to be way easier to talk about your accomplishments and achievements and failings and prejudices on a level playing field if there isn't propaganda sitting around giving credence to your awesomeness.

Humans like to see the past through rose-tinted glasses and statues are rose-tinted themselves. We don't need them and acting like their removal is going to somehow hurt or offend history just goes to show how very dedicated people are to maintaining their idols, literally and figuratively.

I respect George Washington and Abraham Lincoln. They were unbelievably important and amazing presidents and politicians. But as long as we have statues in places of power promoting this hero narrative, the country can never truly have discussions about the reality of the past. Amazing people also do messed up things. Statues say "I don't respect your history" to those who were hurt by these people. They show our dedication to maintaining our preferred narrative instead of discussing reality. And as long as people in power care more about statues than allowing all Americans to feel respected and welcome at the table, we'll never be able to have true equality.

So yeah. Statues are cool. Keeping them up is totally worth telling minorities that they aren't as respected or valued because we'd rather keep this rock that reminds of us our whitewashed version of history than face the reality that no one is perfect. Rocks are more important than showing respect to those harmed by the narrative they promote, yep, totally.

Taking down statues isn't "unpeopling" or "cancelling" someone. It's saying, hey, let's actually talk about what happened and you need to look with open eyes. Right now this hunk of metal is keeping you from really looking at the whole truth. If you truly respect a historical figure, be willing to discuss the realities of what they were like. Statues do not encourage or benefit that kind of discussion and usually make it more difficult.
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NewYorkExpress
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« Reply #49 on: July 03, 2020, 10:56:20 PM »
« Edited: July 03, 2020, 11:46:13 PM by NewYorkExpress »

I'm going to have disagree with Pelosi and Biden here. If you were a slaveowner you should be unpersoned from society.

Does this include noted slave owner Muhammad, Prophet of the Muslim faith? Can we tear down the Dome of the Rock now?

As much as I'd like to say yes...I'd like to focus on American society before cleaning up the Middle East.

There is a sculpture of the Prophet Muhammad literally in the Supreme Court Chamber.



And I can tell you no Muslim was involved in putting that carving up.

We can probably edit that section of the Supreme Court Chamber to remove that depiction of Muhammad.
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