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  Talk Elections
  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion
  2020 U.S. Presidential Election (Moderators: Likely Voter, TJ in Oregon, Senator YE, ON Progressive)
  CNBC - Biden tells donors he will end most of Trump's tax cuts 'and a lot of you may not like that'
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Author Topic: CNBC - Biden tells donors he will end most of Trump's tax cuts 'and a lot of you may not like that'  (Read 1358 times)
MR. KAYNE WEST
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« Reply #25 on: June 30, 2020, 01:53:27 am »

Good, no more tax cuts
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ProudModerate2
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« Reply #26 on: June 30, 2020, 02:20:10 am »

We need tax reform done right.
What trump and the GOP did was BS.
Higher taxes for those in the top-brackets (rich and maybe even upper-middle class), and elimination of corporate tax loopholes, and maybe even higher tax bracket(s) for the super-rich corporations/banks.
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Western Democrat
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« Reply #27 on: June 30, 2020, 02:21:17 am »


Didnít you vote for Bernie lmao
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #28 on: June 30, 2020, 03:18:11 am »

I must say Joe is trying very hard to make me enthusiastic about him.
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Grand Mufti T'Chenka
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« Reply #29 on: June 30, 2020, 03:42:24 am »

I must say Joe is trying very hard to make me enthusiastic about him.
He's taking a page out of the (Canadian) Liberal Party playbook: Campaign from the left, govern from the center.
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MABA 2020
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« Reply #30 on: June 30, 2020, 04:23:53 am »

He almost got me genuinely excited, then I saw the word 'most'
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334 Freiwal
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« Reply #31 on: June 30, 2020, 07:56:54 am »

But I thought the Democrats had abandoned the working class in favor of identity politics and woke white performance!
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brucejoel99
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« Reply #32 on: June 30, 2020, 12:17:17 pm »

I must say Joe is trying very hard to make me enthusiastic about him.
He's taking a page out of the (Canadian) Liberal Party playbook: Campaign from the left, govern from the center.

You know he actually has to govern first before you can say how he's governed, right?
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Storr
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« Reply #33 on: June 30, 2020, 12:50:59 pm »

Joe Biden, the true deficit hawk.
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Alben Barkley
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« Reply #34 on: June 30, 2020, 12:55:08 pm »

This is exactly what he was saying in those "infamous" comments when he said "nothing will fundamentally change." The full context was "I'm gonna tax the hell out of you, but nothing will fundamentally change in your lifestyle because you're so rich you'll hardly even notice it, so get over it."

Doesn't stop Bernie or Busters from taking it out of context and pretending he was actually saying that he would be a tool for the wealthy elites.
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Chips
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« Reply #35 on: July 01, 2020, 09:41:19 am »

Keep in mind, Taxing the rich more will simply make them want to leave the country.
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Acting Governor R2D2 (Voting for the Not Fascist)
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« Reply #36 on: July 01, 2020, 09:52:22 am »

Keep in mind, Taxing the rich more will simply make them want to leave the country.

Is this supposed to be a counterargument
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TiltsAreUnderrated
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« Reply #37 on: July 01, 2020, 09:52:27 am »

Keep in mind, Taxing the rich more will simply make them want to leave the country.

It's a good thing income is taxed abroad, then.
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Western Democrat
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« Reply #38 on: July 01, 2020, 09:53:06 am »

Keep in mind, Taxing the rich more will simply make them want to leave the country.

K
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Acting Governor R2D2 (Voting for the Not Fascist)
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« Reply #39 on: July 01, 2020, 09:53:57 am »

Keep in mind, Taxing the rich more will simply make them want to leave the country.

It's a good thing income is taxed abroad, then.

I'm being taxed too much in the US, I'm moving to Europe!
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Chips
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« Reply #40 on: July 01, 2020, 09:59:22 am »

Keep in mind, Taxing the rich more will simply make them want to leave the country.

Is this supposed to be a counterargument
No. I'm just saying.
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Chips
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« Reply #41 on: July 01, 2020, 10:00:14 am »

Keep in mind, Taxing the rich more will simply make them want to leave the country.

It's a good thing income is taxed abroad, then.
I didn't know income was taxed abroad. That's fine then.
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TiltsAreUnderrated
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« Reply #42 on: July 01, 2020, 10:03:36 am »

This is exactly what he was saying in those "infamous" comments when he said "nothing will fundamentally change." The full context was "I'm gonna tax the hell out of you, but nothing will fundamentally change in your lifestyle because you're so rich you'll hardly even notice it, so get over it."

Doesn't stop Bernie or Busters from taking it out of context and pretending he was actually saying that he would be a tool for the wealthy elites.

Not quite:

"By the way, you know, remember I got in trouble with some of the people on my team, on the Democratic side, because I said, 'You know what I've found is rich people are just as patriotic as poor people.' Not a joke. I mean, we may not want to demonise anybody who has made money. The truth of the matter is, you all, you all know, you all know in your gut what has to be done. We can disagree in the margins but the truth of the matter is it's all within our wheelhouse and nobody has to be punished. No one's standard of living would change, nothing will fundamentally change. Because when we have income inequality as large as we have in the United States today, it brews and ferments political discord and basic revolution. Not a joke. Not a joke. I'm not [inaudible] revolution. But not a joke. It allows demagogues to step in and say 'The reason where we are is because of the other, the other.' You're not the other. I need you very badly. I hope if I win this nomination, I won't let you down. I promise you. I have a bad reputation, I always say what I mean. The problem is I sometimes say all that I mean."

I happen to think Biden's improved since then and don't entirely disagree with the above, but at this point, he should not be telling these donors he needs them very badly. They aren't going to stop lobbying against his reforms just because he appreciates or depends on them; ideally, they should be afraid that if they obstructed his economic agenda, he'd facilitate their opponents rather than merely acknowledging their existence.

As for the demagoguery of left-populism, I also agree it's not ideal, but it is now a useful tool in a very flawed democracy. The kind of thinking Biden espoused in the above runs contrary to Obama's very effective painting of Romney as an elitist.
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TiltsAreUnderrated
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« Reply #43 on: July 01, 2020, 10:05:51 am »

Keep in mind, Taxing the rich more will simply make them want to leave the country.

It's a good thing income is taxed abroad, then.
I didn't know income was taxed abroad. That's fine then.

Only above around $100k and it's easier to find tax avoidance loopholes in a world with a globalised economy but an insufficient regulatory framework to match. However, it is one of the reasons that "They'll move abroad," carries a lot less weight in the US.
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Tintrlvr
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« Reply #44 on: July 01, 2020, 10:06:58 am »

Keep in mind, Taxing the rich more will simply make them want to leave the country.

It's a good thing income is taxed abroad, then.
I didn't know income was taxed abroad. That's fine then.

Only above around $100k and it's easier to find tax avoidance loopholes in a world with a globalised economy but an insufficient regulatory framework to match. However, it is one of the reasons that "They'll move abroad," carries a lot less weight in the US.

Theoretically, they could surrender their US citizenship to avoid US tax. But, yes, most people wouldn't want to do that.
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MAGugh
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« Reply #45 on: July 01, 2020, 11:24:01 am »

I am cautiously pessimistic about this. I understand there's a reason to keep some of the tax cuts (e.g. for lower earners and for stimulus reasons assuming a recession is ongoing or a constant risk), but rolling back only half of the corporate tax cut (35% -> 21% -> 28%) suggests the deepeneing of wealth inequality is going to be allowed to continue in the main.
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UkrainianRepublican
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« Reply #46 on: July 01, 2020, 11:37:27 am »

Setting my clock to 2033  Tongue
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Battista Minola 1616
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« Reply #47 on: July 01, 2020, 12:27:38 pm »

I must say Joe is trying very hard to make me enthusiastic about him.
He's taking a page out of the (Canadian) Liberal Party playbook: Campaign from the left, govern from the center.


Also known as taking a page from the man who had Biden as VP.
Sounds reasonable, no?
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TiltsAreUnderrated
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« Reply #48 on: July 01, 2020, 12:34:02 pm »

I must say Joe is trying very hard to make me enthusiastic about him.
He's taking a page out of the (Canadian) Liberal Party playbook: Campaign from the left, govern from the center.


Also known as taking a page from the man who had Biden as VP.
Sounds reasonable, no?

Less reasonable than sticking to one's campaign promises. Doing otherwise can damage faith in democracy and arguably was a big part of what brought the US to the Trump point.

Governing as an incrementalist is reasonable. Governing as Obama did would would not be - Obama was not merely moderate in his aims, but moderate in what he was prepared to do to see them realised (understandable at the time due to a theory which had not yet been debunked - that voters, eventually, would punish Congressional Republicans for obstructionism). If Biden isn't prepared to play hardball and use executive power as a check on gridlock, and if he isn't prepared to stand up to the worst of the lobbyists, he risks falling into nastier version of most of the pitfalls of the Obama presidency.
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Battista Minola 1616
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« Reply #49 on: July 01, 2020, 01:22:21 pm »

I must say Joe is trying very hard to make me enthusiastic about him.
He's taking a page out of the (Canadian) Liberal Party playbook: Campaign from the left, govern from the center.


Also known as taking a page from the man who had Biden as VP.
Sounds reasonable, no?

Less reasonable than sticking to one's campaign promises. Doing otherwise can damage faith in democracy and arguably was a big part of what brought the US to the Trump point.

Governing as an incrementalist is reasonable. Governing as Obama did would would not be - Obama was not merely moderate in his aims, but moderate in what he was prepared to do to see them realised (understandable at the time due to a theory which had not yet been debunked - that voters, eventually, would punish Congressional Republicans for obstructionism). If Biden isn't prepared to play hardball and use executive power as a check on gridlock, and if he isn't prepared to stand up to the worst of the lobbyists, he risks falling into nastier version of most of the pitfalls of the Obama presidency.

I meant that it is not at all strange if Biden tries to emulate Obama's style. Of course I agree that if Biden becomes president and he tries to get Republicans on board like Obama did, he will only face stonewalling like Obama did, if anything worse stonewalling, so he should be more aggressive when it needs.
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