Traveling for France + more tips (when coronavirus rolls over?)
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  Traveling for France + more tips (when coronavirus rolls over?)
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Author Topic: Traveling for France + more tips (when coronavirus rolls over?)  (Read 403 times)
gg norman
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« on: June 29, 2020, 12:06:03 AM »

Hello,

I plan on visiting France solo and possibly other countries (aiming for Spring 2021). I would like general advice/tips for people who have been to France. About me:

-been to the Rivera in a group once
-can speak/read French at a conversational level
-a not-wealthy guy in 20s, with the darker compextion
-aiming for a week but flexible


My itinerary (very incomplete) contains: the city of Bordeaux, Bretagne, Normandie (I plan to spend a lot of time in the Northwest) and probably the part of the country bordering Switzerland. I'm almost certain to make short stops at Switzlerland and Finland for personal, non-tourist reasons. Some questions:

1. Major attractions? I know about D-Day beaches, Mt. St. Michael, cidre tour, Breton festivals but what else?

2. Is Paris worth spending the time/money? It is compared to Rome but people I know who've been to both say Rome is much better (been there, was GREAT).

3. Beyond castles and wine, what are the main attractions in Bordeaux and the Loire Valley? Same for the parts between Paris and Switzerland?

4. What about crime? Racism?

5. Are there any taboos and such I should avoid as a foreigner?

6. Anything else I should know?

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parochial boy
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« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2020, 04:44:25 AM »

Oh nice one, those are a few areas I know fairly well, so will say what I can.


1. Major attractions? I know about D-Day beaches, Mt. St. Michael, cidre tour, Breton festivals but what else?
In that particular region? The walled town of Saint-Malo is great, as is the old town of Dinan and the port of Cancale. It's very well known for it's beaches, although the weather is... unreliable even in summer. And Breton food is fantastic, the galette (savoury pancake) is the classic speciality of the region, but you can't go wrong with the seafood generally, even if spring is too early for mussel season.

Further away in Brittany, Concarneau and Vannes are attractive old towns; the golfe du Morbihan is pretty, but mainly an old people hangout. Forêt de Paimpol is nice for the old Arthurian legend stuff, and Fougères has a pretty cool castle.

Other than that, you've got the Bayeux tapestry in... Bayeux. Rennes and Nantes are great towns for a night out, Nantes especially has an amazing cultural offer (museums, castles, music, cool bars etc...) and I would really recommend it


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2. Is Paris worth spending the time/money? It is compared to Rome but people I know who've been to both say Rome is much better (been there, was GREAT).
It's worth it, but maybe not if you're on a time limit. I mean, all the famous sites are there - hardly need an introduction. Other than that it's got its moments. Hanging round Canal Saint-Martin is quite clichéd, but it is genuinely a nice area; La Goutte d'Or is increasingly gentrified, but still has a multicultural bustle that is quite cool. I wouldn't prioritise it pesonally though, and would stay the hell away fom the Champs-Elysées.

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3. Beyond castles and wine, what are the main attractions in Bordeaux and the Loire Valley? Same for the parts between Paris and Switzerland?
The Loire valley I know less well, but for between Paris and Switzerland, it depends which route you take. If you're heading in the direction of Geneva then Beaune has a spectacular old town (and, yes, wine); Lyon is worth a detour; and you have the Jura mountain range. The motorway that goes from Macon to Geneva is spectacular - a series of viaducts running over mountains and lakes; I'd recomment stopping off in Nantua, which is a small laskeside town with easy access to the hills. Annecy is slightly out of the way, but also has an amazing old town/restaurants/bars and a series of canals that run into the lake with alpine view etc...

If you're heading towards Zurich - then Dijon is worth a visit, it's only slightly out of the way to Colmar, which is a major tourist draw with a cutesy old town. Besançon doesn't have a great reputation, but it's also got a really stunning old town on a bend on the Doubs river.

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4. What about crime? Racism?
Various non-white friends have commented that France is one of the worst places in Europe for casual racism. As in, naive or patronising comments along the lines of "oh, but your complexion is so pretty!" or being congratulated on drinking alcohol while arab are pretty common place.

Crime isn't bad - stuff like pickpocketing in the tourist areas, but usual rules apply. If you go to Dijon, it has had a recent issue with drug related gang violence, but generally that sort of stuff is restricted to banlieues and only reeally happens between people who already know and hate each other, so isn't something that would affect you. There has been an issue with Chinese people being targetted in some lower income Paris suburbs because "the Chinese are rich", but those aren't the sort of places a tourist would visit, so not worth worrying about.

People will insist on trying to use English with you, even if you speak much better French than their English.

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5. Are there any taboos and such I should avoid as a foreigner?

6. Anything else I should know?
There aren't any major taboos that would be particularly unusual to someone coming from a western country. Don't be put off by the Parisians, who are notoriously unfriendly and unhelpdul ("non, ça ne va pas être possible" is basically the national motto, their not being rude to you because your a foreigner, there just like that with everyone). People outside of Paris are generally much friendlier that the stereotypes suggest. If you speak French, any grammatical mistakes you make will be fairly explicitely corrected, especially if you get the gender wrong ("oh, UNE part de gâteau"). Don't worry about it, they do it to each other too - nothing makes a frenchman happier than the chance to prove he's cleverer than you.

Also get ready for a whirwind of acronyms or childish diminutives too. Why call a train a train when you can call it a "TGV inouï"? or why say "train pass" when you can have a "NaviGo"?

Travel could be tricky if you're planning on using public transport. Generally, the big cities are easily accessible and have easy to use tram networks; but the moment you get away from them, you'll find yourself relying on the TER regional trains or busses. The service is generally not bad, it's just that trains/buses are infrequent and have a habit of only going part of the journey. So you could find yourself spending large amounts of time in small town train stations waiting for one of the four trains that bothers to visit each day.

France doesn't have a particularly developed hostel scene either, which could make accomodation tricky at times, especially if you like to use hostels as a way to meet people.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
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« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2020, 09:59:21 AM »

I plan on visiting France solo and possibly other countries (aiming for Spring 2021). I would like general advice/tips for people who have been to France.

I wouldn't plan visiting any place in the EU until we get coronavirus under control here. Doubtful it'll be as soon as Spring.
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Starry Eyed Jagaloon
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« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2020, 12:22:33 PM »
« Edited: June 29, 2020, 12:50:46 PM by 🌐 »

Paris is great, but crucially, it's right between the Northwest of the country and Switzerland. You'll pass through it regardless so at least spend a day there and preferably multiple. I don't know where you want to go in Switzerland but if I were you, I'd take the TGV from Paris to Lyon and visit Lyon, Annecy, and Geneva or Chaminix before visiting the Swiss Alps and flying out of either Milan or Zurich (both worth a visit on their own).

Edit: Also, going to the city of Bordeaux serms like a random choice, especially since you aren't going anywhere else in Southwest France.
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Del Tachi
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« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2020, 12:30:07 PM »

Pssh, what is the point of going to France (or Europe, even!) if you don't go to Paris!?
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gg norman
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« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2020, 07:38:51 PM »

Quote from: Del Tachi
Pssh, what is the point of going to France (or Europe, even!) if you don't go to Paris!?

Well I went to France and bits of western Europe before for a work-related trip, time and oppurtunity cost you know? I could always go again with people who haven't been their either but I've also heard a lot of less than steller things about Paris, both from French people (likely non-Parisians) and tourists: dirty, smelly, not-tourist friendly, crime, overrated, Paris syndrome, etc. When I ask about an alternative major city, the one that usually comes up is...

Quote from: Blairite
Bordeaux

But the more I research, the less likely I have time for it anyways, esp. if Switzerland takes up a bit of time.

Quote from: parochial boy
very useful info

Thank you very much! This actually gives me a map of what-to-where to tinker with, hopefully the coronavirus situation improves by then.
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Santander
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« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2020, 08:10:27 PM »

Pssh, what is the point of going to France (or Europe, even!) if you don't go to Paris!?

Because Berlin is better.
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Starry Eyed Jagaloon
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« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2020, 09:32:59 PM »

Quote from: Del Tachi
Pssh, what is the point of going to France (or Europe, even!) if you don't go to Paris!?

Well I went to France and bits of western Europe before for a work-related trip, time and oppurtunity cost you know? I could always go again with people who haven't been their either but I've also heard a lot of less than steller things about Paris, both from French people (likely non-Parisians) and tourists: dirty, smelly, not-tourist friendly, crime, overrated, Paris syndrome, etc.
Paris can be those things, but it's also extraordinary. You just have to know where to go and keep realistic expectations. There is no city that can act as a substitute. It isn't everyone's favorite place in the world (although almost everyone can have a good experience) but it's like NYC--if you're visiting the USA you wouldn't pass up a chance to visit New York for Albuquerque.

When I ask about an alternative major city, the one that usually comes up is...

Quote from: Blairite
Bordeaux
Bordeaux is fine, and it makes a nice addition to a trip that's already taking you in that direction (ie. to the Basque Country) but it isn't anything exceptional. Outside Paris and Provence-Alpes-Cote d'Azur, the best city in France is almost certainly Lyon.

Fortunately, it's right on your way to Swizerland. I would strongly encourage you to fly into Brittany, do the Northern France thing, visit Paris, take the TGV to Lyon, and then head over to Switzerland.

But the more I research, the less likely I have time for it anyways, esp. if Switzerland takes up a bit of time.
It can, if you want it to, but it doesn't have to. Two or three nights in the Berner Oberland or Zermatt will "cut it." That said, a day in Zurich, Luzerne, or Geneva can very nice (I actually really like Zurich, unlike a lot of people). I can't speak to Switzerland outside the cities and the Alps though.

The one thing I would strongly encourage you to keep in mind is that the closest international airport to a lot of the Swiss Alps is Milan. Milan is devastatingly underrated and is one of my favorite cities in Europe. It's also right next to the Italian Lakes. Travelling from Zermatt or the Berner Oberland to Lake Maggiore or Como for a two nights nights and then Milan for another two seems like a perfect way to end a European vacation.

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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
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« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2020, 03:10:50 AM »

Quote from: Del Tachi
Pssh, what is the point of going to France (or Europe, even!) if you don't go to Paris!?

Well I went to France and bits of western Europe before for a work-related trip, time and opportunity cost you know? I could always go again with people who haven't been their either but I've also heard a lot of less than stellar things about Paris, both from French people (likely non-Parisians) and tourists: dirty, smelly, not-tourist friendly, crime, overrated, Paris syndrome, etc.
Paris can be those things, but it's also extraordinary. You just have to know where to go and keep realistic expectations. There is no city that can act as a substitute. It isn't everyone's favorite place in the world (although almost everyone can have a good experience) but it's like NYC--if you're visiting the USA you wouldn't pass up a chance to visit New York for Albuquerque.
I live in the USA, and I'd pass up a chance to visit New York for Albuquerque. However, I'll grant that it has certain attractions, but for me the detractions and inconveniences outweigh them. If I ever do visit NYC, it would be specifically to visit there and not as part of a broader tour of the Northeast. Similarly, if I felt the inclination to go there, I'd make a visit to Paris, and a visit to France into two separate visits.
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ilikeverin
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« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2020, 08:43:05 AM »

Generally speaking, there are two kinds of people in the world: people who love Paris, and people who do not. You know which kind you are before you set foot in it, and visiting will confirm your suspicions. Trust your intuition on that. Even as a not-Paris person, it is very important to visit once (so maybe you can make this your time) to see the art galleries. That said, I have now been twice and see no need to go back a third time.

For what it's worth, I was supposed to be in France in March - I was booked in Arles for a few days (where you can make easy day-trips to Montpellier, Marseille, and Avignon) and then Toulouse for a few days. Arles seemed lovely, and the proximity to other things is great.

Paris can be those things, but it's also extraordinary. You just have to know where to go and keep realistic expectations. There is no city that can act as a substitute. It isn't everyone's favorite place in the world (although almost everyone can have a good experience) but it's like NYC--if you're visiting the USA you wouldn't pass up a chance to visit New York for Albuquerque.

I often tell Europeans who haven't been to the US to not spend too much time in New York. It's not actually reflective of the rest of the country. It's one of a kind—so, if you're visiting the US for the first time, why let your view of the US be colored by somewhere that has nothing to do with the culture of the rest of the country? I usually tell them to spend more time in Chicago.
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parochial boy
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« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2020, 04:13:46 PM »


But the more I research, the less likely I have time for it anyways, esp. if Switzerland takes up a bit of time.
It can, if you want it to, but it doesn't have to. Two or three nights in the Berner Oberland or Zermatt will "cut it." That said, a day in Zurich, Luzerne, or Geneva can very nice (I actually really like Zurich, unlike a lot of people). I can't speak to Switzerland outside the cities and the Alps though.


I'll wildly diverge here, but why not, obviously I am going to defend my home country. If I was going to Switzerland as a foreign tourist I would prioritise the three lakes and Jura - Morat, the Creux du Van, lake Bienne as well as Gruyères; the Klöntalersee, Walensee and Glarnerland; Uri; the Lavaux; the Ticino valleys, Lugano and Ascona; probably Bern; and one of the lateral valleys (probably Anniviers) in the Valais. Maybe Zermatt if you want to do the toblerone picture with the Matterhorn.

The plateau is packed full of pretty little Mitteleuropan villages like Aarburg, Porrentruy, Einsiedeln abbey, La Neuveville or Saint-Saphorin. Even a mundane commuter town Baden manages to pack a surprising punch. It's not the classic reason people visit, but it takes people by surprise.

Just doing the big three of Lucerne/Interlaken/Zermatt would be like going to Disneyland, New York and San Francisco and thinking that meant you had "done" the USA.

Personally, I wouldn't even set foot in Lucerne or Interlaken as a tourist. Lucerne is overcrowded, has a tacky lion, an obviously rebuilt bridge, the Rigi and the lake. But if you want to do that lake go to Sisikon or Flüelen and get blown away. If you want to take a train up a mountain, do the Stoosbahn.

The Jungfrau is nice, but everyone is dissapointed by Lauterbrunnen - seeing as you basically only ever see pitures of it through and instagram filter. And Interlaken itself is a pastiche, a town with no real history that was developed for tourists to come and look at the mountains. Zermatt is no better in that respect
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Starry Eyed Jagaloon
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« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2020, 04:28:13 PM »

I will obviously defer to Parochial Boy regarding Swiss travel, but I must say that for me, the highlight of Switzerland is visiting and hiking about in the high Alps. When it comes to doing that with easy access, you aren't going to beat Jungfrau or Zermatt. I have to say, Jungfrau and the Lauterbrunnen Valley is easily the most beautiful place I've visited and one of the few destinations I keep returning to.

I would remember that OP said he wants his entire trip to last a week (which is an impossible timeline, even for a very fast traveler like myself, given he wants to visit Finland, the Loire Valley, Brittany, Normandy, maybe Paris, bits of Eastern France, and Switzerland.) With this in mind, I assume OP would enter Switzerland through Geneva or Lausanne, visit a convenient chunk of the Alps ASAP, and then fly out of Zurich or Malpensa. It would be helpful to know where in Switzerland OP wanted to go for personal reasons, and if (s)he could push their trip to two or three weeks.
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gg norman
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« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2020, 05:14:12 PM »
« Edited: July 01, 2020, 05:37:03 PM by gg norman »

It would be helpful to know where in Switzerland OP wanted to go for personal reasons, and if (s)he could push their trip to two or three weeks.

I am still waiting on details to be exact but I would be staying in the German-speaking part, maybe Zurich?... okay it will be in Basel.

Once again, I would like to thank everyone here helping me brainstorm some ideas even though current events make it hard to predict.

Also, this wouldn't my first time traveling to France and more in Europe. I managed to do 6 countries in less than 2 weeks the last time I visited (excluding layovers!); it was very tiring but reward too.
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Starry Eyed Jagaloon
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« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2020, 05:53:50 PM »

It would be helpful to know where in Switzerland OP wanted to go for personal reasons, and if (s)he could push their trip to two or three weeks.

I am still waiting on details to be exact but I would be staying in the German-speaking part, maybe Zurich?... okay it will be in Basel.

Once again, I would like to thank everyone here helping me brainstorm some ideas even though current events make it hard to predict.

Also, this wouldn't my first time traveling to France and more in Europe. I managed to do 6 countries in less than 2 weeks the last time I visited (excluding layovers!); it was very tiring but reward too.

Good to know. Given Basel's location, this is what I would recommend with a week, excluding travel days and whatever you do in Finland:

Fly into Nantes. Travel to the Loire Valley, Brittany, and Normandy.
Take the TGV from Le Havre to Paris for a couple days.
Take the TGV to Strasbourg and visit Alsace-Lorraine.
Travel down to Basel.
Fly out of Zurich.

If you can give yourself another week, I would add time in Paris, tack on the Swiss Alps and Lombardy, and fly out of Milan. Alternatively, you could use the time to go Paris-Lyon-Annecy-Geneva-Alps/Jura-Basel-Zurich for more time in France/French speaking Switzerland. Hope you get to do this!
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