The Atlas Asylum of absurd/ignorant posts IX

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

I motion we rename the thread.

Leave it to public school teachers to be dramatic af.

Maybe if we were given an iota of respect and paid more than 50% of what engineers are paid, we wouldn’t have to be.

Maybe, if they want to be paid more, then they should be engineers?  Take really hard classes in school for four years, operate under very strict project timelines, and and spend all day on CAD?  instead of, y'know, spending all their time with kids, and getting 2 weeks off at Christmas + the summer, and having virtually no accountability in their positions?

I second the motion.

[Badger]

I motion we rename the thread.

Leave it to public school teachers to be dramatic af.

Maybe if we were given an iota of respect and paid more than 50% of what engineers are paid, we wouldn’t have to be.

Maybe, if they want to be paid more, then they should be engineers?  Take really hard classes in school for four years, operate under very strict project timelines, and and spend all day on CAD?  instead of, y'know, spending all their time with kids, and getting 2 weeks off at Christmas + the summer, and having virtually no accountability in their positions?

I second the motion.

Leave it to public school teachers to be dramatic af.

Thirded

[WD]

I motion we rename the thread.

Leave it to public school teachers to be dramatic af.

Maybe if we were given an iota of respect and paid more than 50% of what engineers are paid, we wouldn’t have to be.

Maybe, if they want to be paid more, then they should be engineers?  Take really hard classes in school for four years, operate under very strict project timelines, and and spend all day on CAD?  instead of, y'know, spending all their time with kids, and getting 2 weeks off at Christmas + the summer, and having virtually no accountability in their positions?

I second the motion.

Leave it to public school teachers to be dramatic af.

Thirded

Fourthed

[lfromnj]

What's extremely absurd about that post?
It's a bit condescending I'd say.

[Xing]

What's extremely absurd about that post?
It's a bit condescending I'd say.

The job description for teachers. Saying teachers just “spend time with kids” is about as accurate as saying doctors “hang out with patients.” The vacation part is very misleading, and saying we have virtually no accountability is wrong on many levels.

[Del Tachi]

What's extremely absurd about that post?
It's a bit condescending I'd say.

The job description for teachers. Saying teachers just “spend time with kids” is about as accurate as saying doctors “hang out with patients.” The vacation part is very misleading, and saying we have virtually no accountability is wrong on many levels.

What's absurd is you insinuating you should have an engineer's salary, when the two jobs require no comparable type/level of training, technical aptitude or daily work environment.   

If you want an engineer's salary, you should have studied to be an engineer.

[Xing]

What's extremely absurd about that post?
It's a bit condescending I'd say.

The job description for teachers. Saying teachers just “spend time with kids” is about as accurate as saying doctors “hang out with patients.” The vacation part is very misleading, and saying we have virtually no accountability is wrong on many levels.

What's absurd is you insinuating you should have an engineer's salary, when the two jobs require no comparable type/level of training, technical aptitude or daily work environment.   

If you want an engineer's salary, you should have studied to be an engineer.

First of all, I didn’t even insinuate that (my words were “more than 50%”), and please, lecture me on how simple and not rigorous training for teachers is. I could write several paragraphs on how a Master’s in Teaching is incredibly demanding, draining, and advanced work. Considering many districts essentially require new teachers to have at least a Master’s in this day and age (or, at the very least, give enormous preference to candidates who have a Master’s), I really don’t think it’s that far off of a comparison. And as for daily work environment... have you ever tried teaching? If not, I highly doubt you’re the least bit aware of just how many hidden responsibilities we have that often force us to work significantly beyond our paid work hours. If you’re not at least willing to consider that teaching is more demanding and challenging than it might seem to most at first, I see no point in explaining why.

[TJ in Oregon]

What's extremely absurd about that post?
It's a bit condescending I'd say.

The job description for teachers. Saying teachers just “spend time with kids” is about as accurate as saying doctors “hang out with patients.” The vacation part is very misleading, and saying we have virtually no accountability is wrong on many levels.

What's absurd is you insinuating you should have an engineer's salary, when the two jobs require no comparable type/level of training, technical aptitude or daily work environment.   

If you want an engineer's salary, you should have studied to be an engineer.

First of all, I didn’t even insinuate that (my words were “more than 50%”), and please, lecture me on how simple and not rigorous training for teachers is. I could write several paragraphs on how a Master’s in Teaching is incredibly demanding, draining, and advanced work. Considering many districts essentially require new teachers to have at least a Master’s in this day and age (or, at the very least, give enormous preference to candidates who have a Master’s), I really don’t think it’s that far off of a comparison. And as for daily work environment... have you ever tried teaching? If not, I highly doubt you’re the least bit aware of just how many hidden responsibilities we have that often force us to work significantly beyond our paid work hours. If you’re not at least willing to consider that teaching is more demanding and challenging than it might seem to most at first, I see no point in explaining why.

My mom and sister are both teachers and I respect what they do. My mom in particular does a job I would be very bad at - teaching special reading to K-2 nd graders. Due to the silly credentials arms race you mention, my mom went back to get her Master's while I was in undergrad. It was a complete joke of a degree that only exists as a money-making scheme. She showed me the homework from her most difficult class, which was statistics, and it was taught basically at a high school level. I don't blame the teachers for that, but I do blame whoever thought requiring a Master's was a good idea when said Master's essentially just another money-making scheme/hoop to jump through.

[Mr. Smith]

I motion we rename the thread.

Leave it to public school teachers to be dramatic af.

Maybe if we were given an iota of respect and paid more than 50% of what engineers are paid, we wouldn’t have to be.

Maybe, if they want to be paid more, then they should be engineers?  Take really hard classes in school for four years, operate under very strict project timelines, and and spend all day on CAD?  instead of, y'know, spending all their time with kids, and getting 2 weeks off at Christmas + the summer, and having virtually no accountability in their positions?

Wow, beaten to the punch.

[Del Tachi]

What's extremely absurd about that post?
It's a bit condescending I'd say.

The job description for teachers. Saying teachers just “spend time with kids” is about as accurate as saying doctors “hang out with patients.” The vacation part is very misleading, and saying we have virtually no accountability is wrong on many levels.

What's absurd is you insinuating you should have an engineer's salary, when the two jobs require no comparable type/level of training, technical aptitude or daily work environment.   

If you want an engineer's salary, you should have studied to be an engineer.

First of all, I didn’t even insinuate that (my words were “more than 50%”), and please, lecture me on how simple and not rigorous training for teachers is. I could write several paragraphs on how a Master’s in Teaching is incredibly demanding, draining, and advanced work. Considering many districts essentially require new teachers to have at least a Master’s in this day and age (or, at the very least, give enormous preference to candidates who have a Master’s), I really don’t think it’s that far off of a comparison. And as for daily work environment... have you ever tried teaching? If not, I highly doubt you’re the least bit aware of just how many hidden responsibilities we have that often force us to work significantly beyond our paid work hours. If you’re not at least willing to consider that teaching is more demanding and challenging than it might seem to most at first, I see no point in explaining why.

I have never said that teaching is undemanding or un-challenging; every position is demanding or challenging in its own way.  My simple point was that the credentials/working environments for teachers is not comparable to those of many higher-paid professionals (doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc.)  Based on your own description in the other thread, teachers are not assessed based on the results they generate, and that's an example of a pretty glaring difference between teaching and other professions, among others.  Some other glaring differences (no way is this list comprehensive):

1.  Unlike many engineers, doctors or lawyers; public school teachers are not employed in private practice.  They do not have to worry about running a business or soliciting "customers"  There is considerably more security in their positions due to this.  In general, this is a major reason why public employees are paid less than private sector employees in similar positions.   

2.  Being a doctor or lawyer requires a terminal degree (7+ years of schooling for any entry-level position), and many engineering programs are noted for their quantitative or technical rigor.  These aren't "fun" things to study.  As a result, there's a sort of "higher entry cost" to the profession, which fuels higher salaries.

3.  Generous pension plans and other benefits, as have been mentioned extensively elsewhere.

What you're paid has nothing to do with "working hard".  It has everything to do with how many people are standing behind you ready/able to take your job if you were to quit.  The education/certification requirements for teachers (at least compared to engineers, or other high-salary professions) are low, and admission into teaching programs is generally non-competitive.   

[Xing]

What's extremely absurd about that post?
It's a bit condescending I'd say.

The job description for teachers. Saying teachers just “spend time with kids” is about as accurate as saying doctors “hang out with patients.” The vacation part is very misleading, and saying we have virtually no accountability is wrong on many levels.

What's absurd is you insinuating you should have an engineer's salary, when the two jobs require no comparable type/level of training, technical aptitude or daily work environment.   

If you want an engineer's salary, you should have studied to be an engineer.

First of all, I didn’t even insinuate that (my words were “more than 50%”), and please, lecture me on how simple and not rigorous training for teachers is. I could write several paragraphs on how a Master’s in Teaching is incredibly demanding, draining, and advanced work. Considering many districts essentially require new teachers to have at least a Master’s in this day and age (or, at the very least, give enormous preference to candidates who have a Master’s), I really don’t think it’s that far off of a comparison. And as for daily work environment... have you ever tried teaching? If not, I highly doubt you’re the least bit aware of just how many hidden responsibilities we have that often force us to work significantly beyond our paid work hours. If you’re not at least willing to consider that teaching is more demanding and challenging than it might seem to most at first, I see no point in explaining why.

My mom and sister are both teachers and I respect what they do. My mom in particular does a job I would be very bad at - teaching special reading to K-2 nd graders. Due to the silly credentials arms race you mention, my mom went back to get her Master's while I was in undergrad. It was a complete joke of a degree that only exists as a money-making scheme. She showed me the homework from her most difficult class, which was statistics, and it was taught basically at a high school level. I don't blame the teachers for that, but I do blame whoever thought requiring a Master's was a good idea when said Master's essentially just another money-making scheme/hoop to jump through.

It really depends on the program. The program I enrolled in was certainly worthwhile, although I would’ve enjoyed it if my student teaching had lasted longer, and doing the TPA for the majority of the time that I was in the classroom. Some programs don’t offer enough hands-on experience, though, and that’s certainly a problem. My most difficult class was essentially writing and defending a thesis, so I’d say there was certainly some intellectually challenging work.

What's extremely absurd about that post?
It's a bit condescending I'd say.

The job description for teachers. Saying teachers just “spend time with kids” is about as accurate as saying doctors “hang out with patients.” The vacation part is very misleading, and saying we have virtually no accountability is wrong on many levels.

What's absurd is you insinuating you should have an engineer's salary, when the two jobs require no comparable type/level of training, technical aptitude or daily work environment.   

If you want an engineer's salary, you should have studied to be an engineer.

First of all, I didn’t even insinuate that (my words were “more than 50%”), and please, lecture me on how simple and not rigorous training for teachers is. I could write several paragraphs on how a Master’s in Teaching is incredibly demanding, draining, and advanced work. Considering many districts essentially require new teachers to have at least a Master’s in this day and age (or, at the very least, give enormous preference to candidates who have a Master’s), I really don’t think it’s that far off of a comparison. And as for daily work environment... have you ever tried teaching? If not, I highly doubt you’re the least bit aware of just how many hidden responsibilities we have that often force us to work significantly beyond our paid work hours. If you’re not at least willing to consider that teaching is more demanding and challenging than it might seem to most at first, I see no point in explaining why.

I have never said that teaching is undemanding or un-challenging; every position is demanding or challenging in its own way.  My simple point was that the credentials/working environments for teachers is not comparable to those of many higher-paid professionals (doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc.)  Based on your own description in the other thread, teachers are not assessed based on the results they generate, and that's an example of a pretty glaring difference between teaching and other professions, among others.  Some other glaring differences (no way is this list comprehensive):

1.  Unlike many engineers, doctors or lawyers; public school teachers are not employed in private practice.  They do not have to worry about running a business or soliciting "customers"  There is considerably more security in their positions due to this.  In general, this is a major reason why public employees are paid less than private sector employees in similar positions.   

2.  Being a doctor or lawyer requires a terminal degree (7+ years of schooling for any entry-level position), and many engineering programs are noted for their quantitative or technical rigor.  These aren't "fun" things to study.  As a result, there's a sort of "higher entry cost" to the profession, which fuels higher salaries.

3.  Generous pension plans and other benefits, as have been mentioned extensively elsewhere.

What you're paid has nothing to do with "working hard".  It has everything to do with how many people are standing behind you ready/able to take your job if you were to quit.  The education/certification requirements for teachers (at least compared to engineers, or other high-salary professions) are low, and admission into teaching programs is generally non-competitive.   

Your quote which I posted here certainly sounded like you were saying that teachers have it easy. Yeah, most teachers don’t need nearly as much training and doctors or lawyers, but in my district, it is comparable to engineers and other professional jobs which get higher pay (often significantly higher) than teachers. And as for assessment, that’s at least partially because it’s so subjective. There’s a difference between saying that teachers aren’t only assessed on their students’ grades and saying that there’s no accountability. We do have to provide significant evidence and justification for our practice, and that’s another hidden time sink (for principals as well.)

True, thanks to unions, teachers have some security, but our stipends, as well as funding for classroom supplies, field trips, etc. are not as stable. In too many districts, teachers have to use their own money to pay for classroom supplies. Another solution is to apply for a grant, but that’s an enormous time sink, and most teachers realistically work 55-70 hours a week.

I’m not arguing that doctors and lawyers shouldn’t be paid well or somewhat better than teachers. Simply that teachers are underpaid, even in cities where their salaries seem good (but actually barely keep up with the cost of living.) And plenty of the preparation in programs for teachers isn’t “fun”, either. (Creating a year-long curriculum for an elementary program even though I teach at the secondary level wasn’t a walk in the park.)

I’m very aware that pay has nothing to do with how hard one works, believe me. I can say that if teachers were paid better, teaching programs would be more competitive. As for replacements, it depends on the position. Finding a music teacher who can teach choir, guitar, piano, and general music to students who aren’t native English speakers and many of whom have trauma or IEPs and 504s would not be easy, and finding someone who would stay more than a year or part of a year would be challenging. And don’t get me started on how poorly subs and long-term subs are paid, because custodians literally make way more than subs.

I realize that this has gotten off topic, so I’ll discuss this on another thread if necessary.

[Illiniwek]

It is a federal courthouse.

Local authorities have no jurisdiction.

If Oregon does not want a federal presence they should secede.

Everything you posted is not how things actually work.

Is it any different than Little Rock in 1957 when a Conservative governor refused to carry out federally mandated desegregation of schools, and a moderate centrist president had to step in?

FTFY

Kate Brown and Orval Faubus are peas in a pod. Both radical extremists (and Democrats).

Dwight Eisenhower and Donald Trump are indeed moderate centrists.

[PSOL]

Well, I guess we need to rename the thread now to either Del Tachi or Jimrtex

[lfromnj]

Well, I guess we need to rename the thread now to either Del Tachi or Jimrtex

Help me figure out a name with j for the faubus and kate brown lol,
Del Tachi is fine here lol, it was a legitimate debate with some hyperbole.

[GM Team Member and Senator WB]

The Jimrtex Jail Cell?

[Landslide Lyndon]

I wasn't aware that krazey moved to Mississippi.

[ON Progressive]

RIP

But hey, Stacey Abrams probably has a job now

[Frodo]

They are using unmarked cars because the Mobs in the streets are attacking and vandalizing police cars.  It's an appropriate tactic in the face of a lawless, Marxist mob.

People have committed crimes during the violence in major cities.  Those who have need to face the criminal penalties for these acts.  The hysteria is deception, and is a means the left is using to assist the Marxist Rioters guilty of crimes to avoid prosecution.  I'm very definitely not OK with that.  These people are not peaceful protesters; they are persons committing crimes.  And the municipalities where they are committing these crimes are simply not enforcing the law.  Why taxpayers and ordinary citizens should be OK with that is beyond me.

[NewYorkExpress]

They are using unmarked cars because the Mobs in the streets are attacking and vandalizing police cars.  It's an appropriate tactic in the face of a lawless, Marxist mob.

People have committed crimes during the violence in major cities.  Those who have need to face the criminal penalties for these acts.  The hysteria is deception, and is a means the left is using to assist the Marxist Rioters guilty of crimes to avoid prosecution.  I'm very definitely not OK with that.  These people are not peaceful protesters; they are persons committing crimes.  And the municipalities where they are committing these crimes are simply not enforcing the law.  Why taxpayers and ordinary citizens should be OK with that is beyond me.

I move to rename the thread after Fuzzy Bear.

[Frodo]

They are using unmarked cars because the Mobs in the streets are attacking and vandalizing police cars.  It's an appropriate tactic in the face of a lawless, Marxist mob.

People have committed crimes during the violence in major cities.  Those who have need to face the criminal penalties for these acts.  The hysteria is deception, and is a means the left is using to assist the Marxist Rioters guilty of crimes to avoid prosecution.  I'm very definitely not OK with that.  These people are not peaceful protesters; they are persons committing crimes.  And the municipalities where they are committing these crimes are simply not enforcing the law.  Why taxpayers and ordinary citizens should be OK with that is beyond me.

I move to rename the thread after Fuzzy Bear.

He is fast becoming an object worthy of mockery. 

[Antonio the Sixth]

They are using unmarked cars because the Mobs in the streets are attacking and vandalizing police cars.  It's an appropriate tactic in the face of a lawless, Marxist mob.

People have committed crimes during the violence in major cities.  Those who have need to face the criminal penalties for these acts.  The hysteria is deception, and is a means the left is using to assist the Marxist Rioters guilty of crimes to avoid prosecution.  I'm very definitely not OK with that.  These people are not peaceful protesters; they are persons committing crimes.  And the municipalities where they are committing these crimes are simply not enforcing the law.  Why taxpayers and ordinary citizens should be OK with that is beyond me.

I move to rename the thread after Fuzzy Bear.

He is fast becoming an object worthy of mockery. 

"becoming"??

[Sir Mohamed]

Another Trump hater is gone!

Its called free speech!

It's called human decency. Something makes me question whether the author of the original comment has ever heard of.

[Sir Mohamed]

Another Trump hater is gone!

Its called free speech!

It's called human decency. Something makes me question whether the author of the original comment has ever heard of.

RIP to man who has helped to elect and own radical right wingers to federal and statewide offices, who made policies for the top 1% he himself belonged to, on the backs of hardworking middle class people.

This thread is a gem mine.

LOL, ridiculous comparison. Unlike the I-NY avatar, I didn't "celebrate" his passing. Not even in a dog whistle. That's the major difference.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Chad Wolf needs to be prosecuted for this.

Actually, he need to run for President.  I've never seen such strong leadership.

[WD]

Kate Brown and Orval Faubus are peas in a pod. Both radical extremists (and Democrats).

Dwight Eisenhower and Donald Trump are indeed moderate centrists.