Germany megathread

[Storr]

"A German court has ruled that Germany’s domestic intelligence agency may classify the youth wing of the far-right Alternative for Germany (AfD) party as extremist, fueling a debate about whether the group should be banned.

The youth group, known as Young Alternative, “continues to engage in massive anti-foreigner and, in particular, anti-Islam and anti-Muslim agitation,” an administrative court in Cologne found, according to German media reports.

Germany’s domestic intelligence agency, which is tasked with surveilling groups deemed anti-constitutional, classified the Young Alternative as extremist in 2023 after monitoring it for years. The AfD and Young Alternative sought to counter the move in court."

https://twitter.com/POLITICOEurope/status/1754896763293516061?s=20

[Middle-aged Europe]

Fascism news:

On a hike organized by the Saxon state chapter of the "Young Alternative" one participant is quoted as having said: "The solution for the Jews would be assigning them to an area where they are all put into."

Another participant argued in favour of special tribunals "to convict and execute criminals who have abused to property of the German people" - like Olaf Scholz.

https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/junge-alternative-teilnehmer-an-wanderung-sollen-ueber-ghettos-fuer-juden-und-arbeitslager-fabuliert-haben-a-45b6eec4-09b8-430a-af41-02e70de82d8f


Ban for the Young Alternative incoming, I guess... it's lies in the jurisdiction of the interior minister.

[President Johnson]

Fascism news:

On a hike organized by the Saxon state chapter of the "Young Alternative" one participant is quoted as having said: "The solution for the Jews would be assigning them to an area where they are all put into."

Another participant argued in favour of special tribunals "to convict and execute criminals who have abused to property of the German people" - like Olaf Scholz.

https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/junge-alternative-teilnehmer-an-wanderung-sollen-ueber-ghettos-fuer-juden-und-arbeitslager-fabuliert-haben-a-45b6eec4-09b8-430a-af41-02e70de82d8f


Ban for the Young Alternative incoming, I guess... it's lies in the jurisdiction of the interior minister.

Faeser will probably wait until pending court cases like JA's appeal towards being labeled as right-wing extremists are decided until she makes a final decision (I guess she would only issue a ban after talking back to Scholz). It's definitely a delicate one since it would be a huge PR win for AfD for a court later to rule that the interior ministry lacks the authority to issue a ban. This is not entirely certain as some legal scholars at least raised doubt on that question.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Fascism news:

On a hike organized by the Saxon state chapter of the "Young Alternative" one participant is quoted as having said: "The solution for the Jews would be assigning them to an area where they are all put into."

Another participant argued in favour of special tribunals "to convict and execute criminals who have abused to property of the German people" - like Olaf Scholz.

https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/junge-alternative-teilnehmer-an-wanderung-sollen-ueber-ghettos-fuer-juden-und-arbeitslager-fabuliert-haben-a-45b6eec4-09b8-430a-af41-02e70de82d8f


Ban for the Young Alternative incoming, I guess... it's lies in the jurisdiction of the interior minister.

Faeser will probably wait until pending court cases like JA's appeal towards being labeled as right-wing extremists are decided until she makes a final decision (I guess she would only issue a ban after talking back to Scholz). It's definitely a delicate one since it would be a huge PR win for AfD for a court later to rule that the interior ministry lacks the authority to issue a ban. This is not entirely certain as some legal scholars at least raised doubt on that question.

NSDAP also would have cried foul play had it been banned back in 1931, but alas..

[jaichind]

AfD loses ground but mostly to BSW
https://twitter.com/Wahlen_DE/status/1755536397371322569

[Yeahsayyeah]

Fascism news:

On a hike organized by the Saxon state chapter of the "Young Alternative" one participant is quoted as having said: "The solution for the Jews would be assigning them to an area where they are all put into."

Another participant argued in favour of special tribunals "to convict and execute criminals who have abused to property of the German people" - like Olaf Scholz.

https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/junge-alternative-teilnehmer-an-wanderung-sollen-ueber-ghettos-fuer-juden-und-arbeitslager-fabuliert-haben-a-45b6eec4-09b8-430a-af41-02e70de82d8f


Ban for the Young Alternative incoming, I guess... it's lies in the jurisdiction of the interior minister.

Faeser will probably wait until pending court cases like JA's appeal towards being labeled as right-wing extremists are decided until she makes a final decision (I guess she would only issue a ban after talking back to Scholz). It's definitely a delicate one since it would be a huge PR win for AfD for a court later to rule that the interior ministry lacks the authority to issue a ban. This is not entirely certain as some legal scholars at least raised doubt on that question.

NSDAP also would have cried foul play had it been banned back in 1931, but alas..

Well, they did when they were banned in 1923.

But the Open question with party youth oganizations ist, wheither they fall under the Special protections for Parties in the Basic Law or not.

[Middle-aged Europe]

AfD loses ground but mostly to BSW

Left (-2), SPD (-1), "Others" (-1), and a couple of other parties have also lost points that must have gone somewhere.

Actually, if you look at the numbers of the poll closely you will notice that CDU and BSW had combined gains of 9%, while AfD, SPD, FDP, Left, Free Voters, and Others suffered combined losses of 11%. Which is probably also the reason why the combined numbers for all these parties (including Others) add up to 98%, meaning that 2% simply vanished "compared" to the previous poll.

[Storr]

On the lighter side of things, Olaf Scholz and Sen. Chris Coons (D-Del.) are evidently dopplegangers:

@ChrisCoons: "Wer ist wer?"

[jaichind]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2024-02-10/why-germany-s-days-as-an-industrial-superpower-are-coming-to-an-end?embedded-checkout=true

"Germany’s Days as an Industrial Superpower Are Coming to an End"

[Estrella]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2024-02-10/why-germany-s-days-as-an-industrial-superpower-are-coming-to-an-end?embedded-checkout=true

"Germany’s Days as an Industrial Superpower Are Coming to an End"

Five decades of suicidal energy policy coming home to roost. I’d be feeling worried for Germany if this wasn’t 100% self-inflicted.

Related: after forcing a shutdown of clean, safe and reliable power plants and enthusiastically supporting a massive expansion of coal mining, Die Grünen continue their environmental destruction speedrun.

After scrapping nuclear reactors, Germany to spend billions on new gas power plants

Berlin has agreed to spend €16 billion to build four major natural gas plants to meet electricity demand in a major overhaul of the country's energy grid. The ruling coalition reached the decision following talks between Chancellor Olaf Scholz of the Social Democratic Party and the economy minister, Green Party politician Robert Habeck.

The government has described the fossil gas power plants as "modern, highly flexible and climate-friendly" because they will be capable of conversion to use clean-burning hydrogen gas produced from renewable sources. The plants are projected to produce up to 10 gigawatts of electricity. Tenders for the projects will begin soon.

Germany shut down its final three nuclear reactors last April, despite warnings that it would cause more fossil fuel to be burned. Last year, a report from Berlin's own climate agency said the country was likely to miss its target of cutting greenhouse emissions by 65 percent by 2030.

In September, Scholz dismissed calls from his own coalition to restart the reactors in light of the energy crisis, declaring: "Nuclear energy is over."

10 GW is incidentally also the amount of energy generated by Germany’s remaining nuclear power plants before Scholz and Habeck oh-so-wisely shut them down last year.

[jaichind]

https://www.bild.de/bild-plus/politik/inland/politik-inland/dokumente-aufgetaucht-baerbock-ich-wusste-nichts-mein-opa-und-die-nazis-87090146.bild.html



Seems like somebody out there wants to get rid of Baerbock so papers about her grandfather being a Nazi and being awarded Hitler's War Merit Cross with swords come out.

[Middle-aged Europe]

https://www.bild.de/bild-plus/politik/inland/politik-inland/dokumente-aufgetaucht-baerbock-ich-wusste-nichts-mein-opa-und-die-nazis-87090146.bild.html



Seems like somebody out there wants to get rid of Baerbock so papers about her grandfather being a Nazi and being awarded Hitler's War Merit Cross with swords come out.

Fail to see the logic behind the idea that this would "get rid" of Baerbock, mainly because there is a fairly high precentage of Germans with ancestors who were Wehrmacht soldiers with a (supposedly) popular opinion of Hitler.

Helmut Schmidt's Wehrmacht files also described him as a loyal supporter of the regime, and his face is still on commemorative Euro coins.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

https://www.bild.de/bild-plus/politik/inland/politik-inland/dokumente-aufgetaucht-baerbock-ich-wusste-nichts-mein-opa-und-die-nazis-87090146.bild.html



Seems like somebody out there wants to get rid of Baerbock so papers about her grandfather being a Nazi and being awarded Hitler's War Merit Cross with swords come out.

Fail to see the logic behind the idea that this would "get rid" of Baerbock, mainly because there is a fairly high precentage of Germans with ancestors who were Wehrmacht soldiers with a (supposedly) popular opinion of Hitler.

Helmut Schmidt's Wehrmacht files also described him as a loyal supporter of the regime, and his face is still on commemorative Euro coins.

What share of the population would you say that is, most likely?

[jaichind]

Fail to see the logic behind the idea that this would "get rid" of Baerbock, mainly because there is a fairly high precentage of Germans with ancestors who were Wehrmacht soldiers with a (supposedly) popular opinion of Hitler.

Helmut Schmidt's Wehrmacht files also described him as a loyal supporter of the regime, and his face is still on commemorative Euro coins.

I gueaa rhe difference is that Baerbock kept this part of her family hidden even as a public figure even aa Schmidt did not try to hide his record from the 1930s and 1940s while he was a public figure. 

This is why this seems like someone that is well connected wants to get rid of Baerbock since they had access to this information which was kept as a secret from the public. 

[Middle-aged Europe]

I gueaa rhe difference is that Baerbock kept this part of her family hidden even as a public figure even aa Schmidt did not try to hide his record from the 1930s and 1940s while he was a public figure. 

Not really. The parts she knew about were never "hidden", the parts she didn't know about, well, were unknown to her. You're making an accusation that has no basis in the facts.

This is why this seems like someone that is well connected wants to get rid of Baerbock since they had access to this information which was kept as a secret from the public. 

This is a conspiracy theory with no evidence to back it up.

[Beet]

The conspiracy theory seems to be the hit was put out on Baerbock after she expressed sympathy for Palestinians. Not sure if it's true or not. Someone may have been sitting on this for a long time.

https://www.politico.eu/article/german-foreign-minister-baerbock-suffering-of-palestinians-cannot-go-on-gaza-west-bank-war/

[Middle-aged Europe]

The conspiracy theory seems to be the hit was put out on Baerbock after she expressed sympathy for Palestinians. Not sure if it's true or not. Someone may have been sitting on this for a long time.

https://www.politico.eu/article/german-foreign-minister-baerbock-suffering-of-palestinians-cannot-go-on-gaza-west-bank-war/

Yeah, sounds like a conspiracy theory.

Folks, it was a report by the celebrity gossip magazine Bunte. If I go to bild.de, which jaichind cited, I don't find the story anywhere on the startpage. What I find on bild.de's homepage, when I scroll down a bit, is an article about someone from Bavaria who has rebuilt KITT from Knight Rider.

Get a grip on yourselves.

[Middle-aged Europe]

What share of the population would you say that is, most likely?

No idea, honestly.

It probably applies to a great-grandfather (or maybe even both of them) on my mother's side.

Grandfather on my father's side is "clean" in that regard, given that I saw his Third Reich court and subsequent prison records. He certainly was more of an exception to the rule though.

[Yeahsayyeah]

"Person x had a Nazi grandfather" really isn't shocking anybody in Germany, so I don't know what this discussion here is about. There were over five million NSDAP members (even more if all the sub- and affiliated oranisations are taken into account) and 17 million Wehrmacht members (and ten thousands of officers). And many people didn't want to know too exactly what their relatives and ancestors did exactly before the 8th of May 1945. It was often even disincentivized.

My great-grandfather was a  mid-rank Wehrmacht officer who took part in Barbarossa. He was killed in 1942 and I have no account of any sorts what he did at the Eastern front, in which way he was personally accountable for war crimes, deportations etc. But I have no illusions. I don't even know wheither he was an NSDAP member or not (while I know, that two of his brothers were and were quite commited at that). Of course, my great-grandmother would have had every reason to downplay his role after 1945 in the Soviet Occupation Zone and later the GDR to not face repercussions.

[Middle-aged Europe]

And yet... Annalena Baerbock has just tendered her resignation!







Nah, I'm just messing with you.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

And yet... Annalena Baerbock has just tendered her resignation!







Nah, I'm just messing with you.

It would be pretty shocking if she resigned and that was the reason.

[CumbrianLefty]

Though stranger things have happened.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Though stranger things have happened.

Yeah, if she had wanted to have a way out.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Though stranger things have happened.

Yeah, if she had wanted to have a way out.

Where there's a will there's a way.

[Middle-aged Europe]

AfD falls under 20 with INSA (arguably the most pro-AfD pollster) as well now.

CDU/CSU 31% (+1)
AfD 19% (-1.5)
SPD 14% (-1)
Greens 13% (+0.5)
BSW 8% (+0.5)
FDP 4% (+0.5)
Left 3% (-0.5)
Free Voters 3% (+/-0)