Germany megathread

[Middle-aged Europe]

Given the level of resistance the port deal is facing from the Greens and the FDP, the EU and the media it's far from certain that it is gonna happen in the end.

[President Johnson]

China wants to buy a 35% stake in the Port of Hamburg. Scholz apparently having learnt nothing from recent experiences of handing your critical infrastructure over to authoritarian regimes is apparently happy to wave this through.

I mean, how stupid can you be?

If this happens, I would be extremely disappointed and quite upset. If Scholz does that, especially against parts of his own party and both coalition partners, I'd honestly answer an approval poll with "disapprove". If Russia and the Ukraine war teaches us one thing, it is not to be dependent on autocratic regimes. However, it seems like human kind is all too often incapable of learning from history.

[Estrella]

Germany: Fire destroys Ukrainian refugee home, arson suspected

This follows on from...

Leipzig: Outrage over verbal attacks on Ukrainian refugees

German police investigate attempted arson at nursery hosting Ukrainian refugees

... and, of course, the countless attack on Ukrainian refugees by Germany's ethnic Russians.

East Germany is going full speed ahead towards another far-right terror attack like Lichtenhagen or Hoyerswerda. The Chancellor's response will likely be even more pathetic than Kohl's was – after all, you have to think of the feelings of those poor Russians.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Saxony's minister-president and the CDU's top Putin appeaser Michael Kretschmer has said that Germany should start using Russian gas again "as soon as the war is over".

Not surprising coming from someone who also couldn't wait to throw Ukraine under the bus in the past.

[Torie]

Germany: Fire destroys Ukrainian refugee home, arson suspected

This follows on from...

Leipzig: Outrage over verbal attacks on Ukrainian refugees

German police investigate attempted arson at nursery hosting Ukrainian refugees

... and, of course, the countless attack on Ukrainian refugees by Germany's ethnic Russians.

East Germany is going full speed ahead towards another far-right terror attack like Lichtenhagen or Hoyerswerda. The Chancellor's response will likely be even more pathetic than Kohl's was – after all, you have to think of the feelings of those poor Russians.

I have never heard of ethnic Russians in the US attacking Ukrainians. Indeed, I would think most of them have no use for Putin. But then East Germany has a different history, but one would think it no so different has to foster a more positive attitude to a Putinized Russia.

[Estrella]

Germany: Fire destroys Ukrainian refugee home, arson suspected

This follows on from...

Leipzig: Outrage over verbal attacks on Ukrainian refugees

German police investigate attempted arson at nursery hosting Ukrainian refugees

... and, of course, the countless attack on Ukrainian refugees by Germany's ethnic Russians.

East Germany is going full speed ahead towards another far-right terror attack like Lichtenhagen or Hoyerswerda. The Chancellor's response will likely be even more pathetic than Kohl's was – after all, you have to think of the feelings of those poor Russians.

I have never heard of ethnic Russians in the US attacking Ukrainians. Indeed, I would think most of them have no use for Putin. But then East Germany has a different history, but one would think it no so different has to foster a more positive attitude to a Putinized Russia.

The perplexing (and violent) Russian nationalism so widespread in East Germany is a separate issue from the ticking time bomb of Spätaussiedler – Soviet/Russian citizens who are for all intents and purposes culturally indistinguishable from ethnic Russians but have enough Volga German ancestry to qualify for German citizenship. Helmut Kohl was a nationalist and an opponent of immigration, but in this case the former prevailed over the latter and some three million of them migrated to Germany in the late 80s and early 90s. Even thirty years later, some of them are very badly integrated. Combined with Russian propaganda from domestic and foreign sources that paints all Ukrainians as brainwashed American puppets, revanchists and fascists... well, you can see why a section of this demographic has become a problem. Russian immigrants in the US and most of Europe are usually educated middle-class types. A large proportion of Russian immigrants in Germany are, let's put it this way, the post-Soviet version of trailer trash. Or, to use a Russian word, vatniki.

[Pick Up the Phone]

Saxony's minister-president and the CDU's top Putin appeaser Michael Kretschmer has said that Germany should start using Russian gas again "as soon as the war is over".

Not surprising coming from someone who...

...governs a state where a clear majority is skeptical of German aid for Ukraine and the AfD polls around 30%. I don’t envy Kretschmer his job.

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

China wants to buy a 35% stake in the Port of Hamburg. Scholz apparently having learnt nothing from recent experiences of handing your critical infrastructure over to authoritarian regimes is apparently happy to wave this through.

I mean, how stupid can you be?

In the meantime, there is only talk of a stake of less than 25% in order to deny Cosco a blocking minority.

If this happens, I would be extremely disappointed and quite upset. If Scholz does that, especially against parts of his own party and both coalition partners, I'd honestly answer an approval poll with "disapprove". If Russia and the Ukraine war teaches us one thing, it is not to be dependent on autocratic regimes. However, it seems like human kind is all too often incapable of learning from history.

Scholz now has the right of veto over the deal until October 31. If he doesn't use it, the deal can go through.

It should be mentioned that Olaf is not the only politician who supports the deal; so does his successor as Mayor of Hamburg, Peter Tschentscher, and also Schleswig-Holstein Governor, Daniel Günther.
But they nevertheless stand alone with their endeavor; six ministries refuse to approve the deal, and even both the Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution (BfV) and the Federal Intelligence Service (BND) in particular have tried to sensitize the government. BND President Bruno Kahl publicly stated before the Bundestag on Monday that Chinese participation in critical infrastructure was viewed "very, very critically".

[Clarko95 📚💰📈]

I genuinely don't get this guy. I generally approve of the Traffic Light coalition agreement and the actual legislation that has passed the Bundestag. I can forgive the poor communication and infighting and long delays, as frustrating as they are. But this is such a strong case of myopic Merkelbrain: just wishing that these pesky foreign policy problems would just magically go away so you can focus on the real business of running your little kingdom in the middle of Europe and for some reason, refusing to snap out of this mentality even when it is SO OBVIOUS to everyone that you need to step up and face reality.

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

A first draft for the legislation to legalize Cannabis has been released.

Posession or purchase would be legal for any adult for amounts up to 20 gram.
THC content is limited to 15% for anyone over 21, and to 10% for 18-to-21 year olds.
Cannabis would be sold through licensed shops or pharmacies.
Private possession of up two Cannabis plants would also be allowed.

PUTP's archfoe, Health Minister Dr. Karl Lauterbach, will be introducing his marijuana legalization bill to the Bundestag tomorrow.
In honor of this occasion - and because Estrella uses the lettuce emoji 🥬 in her name, which bears resemblance to another emoji that I am about to explain - I'd like to point out that many Twitter users bear the broccoli emoji 🥦 in their name because it has become the allegory of the fight for the decriminalization of cannabis. The story behind it is quite funny: Daniela Ludwig (CSU), the drug czar of the last federal government, was asked at the Federal Press Conference two years ago why the possession of cannabis is still prohibited, whereas beer consumption remains legal. Her reply: "Just because alcohol is dangerous - undoubtedly - cannabis is no broccoli." That paved the way for the tremendous triumph of 🥦 on social media. It's virtually the German equivalent of the American "420" euphemism.

[Middle-aged Europe]

A first draft for the legislation to legalize Cannabis has been released.


Posession or purchase would be legal for any adult for amounts up to 20 gram.

THC content is limited to 15% for anyone over 21, and to 10% for 18-to-21 year olds.

Cannabis would be sold through licensed shops or pharmacies.

Private possession of up two Cannabis plants would also be allowed.

Update: A revised draft for Cannabis legalization has passed the federal cabinet. It's apparently even more liberal than the previous one summarized above.

Posession or purchase would now be legal for any adult for amounts up to 30 gram.

Private possession of up to three Cannabis plants would also be allowed.

Actual legislation is subject to approval by the EU Commission, since the plans are technically violating existing agreements against international drug trade.

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

Absolutely disgusting how people can look at the harm done by alcohol and tobacco, and think that the solution is to make another vice socialy acceptable. And before people bring up gotchas about how people consume drugs illegaly and the casualties from the drug war, the number of people who die from legal tobacco and alcohol make the casualties from the war on drug look minuscule.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Absolutely disgusting how people can look at the harm done by alcohol and tobacco, and think that the solution is to make another vice socialy acceptable. And before people bring up gotchas about how people consume drugs illegaly and the casualties from the drug war, the number of people who die from legal tobacco and alcohol make the casualties from the war on drug look minuscule.

As fas as I am concerned, I would consider it a natural antidepressant... judging from personal experience it certainly has less side effects than the actual antidepressants I've taken in the past. Actually, I did lament the fact that Cannabis wasn't legal already when the first COVID lockdowns began. It certainly would have made a lot of things smoother for me. Granted, I could have tried asking a doctor given that medical marijuana is legal here since 2017. But as I understand it, this is only for the "critically ill" and when other forms of therapy have failed. So that seemed like a lot of red tape to cut through. Time to get rid of the red tape.

[If my soul was made of stone]

Absolutely disgusting how people can look at the harm done by alcohol and tobacco, and think that the solution is to make another vice socialy acceptable. And before people bring up gotchas about how people consume drugs illegaly and the casualties from the drug war, the number of people who die from legal tobacco and alcohol make the casualties from the war on drug look minuscule.

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

Absolutely disgusting how people can look at the harm done by alcohol and tobacco, and think that the solution is to make another vice socialy acceptable. And before people bring up gotchas about how people consume drugs illegaly and the casualties from the drug war, the number of people who die from legal tobacco and alcohol make the casualties from the war on drug look minuscule.

As fas as I am concerned, I would consider it a natural antidepressant... judging from personal experience it certainly has less side effects than the actual antidepressants I've taken in the past. Actually, I did lament the fact that Cannabis wasn't legal already when the first COVID lockdowns began. It certainly would have made a lot of things smoother for me. Granted, I could have tried asking a doctor given that medical marijuana is legal here since 2017. But as I understand it, this is only for the "critically ill" and when other forms of therapy have failed. So that seemed like a lot of red tape to cut through. Time to get rid of the red tape.

I understand cannabis has positive medical benefits and am glad they helped you but the situation has gone beyond acknowleing that cannabis has medical benefits. Anti-depressants are a prescription only medicine that are dispensed only after careful consideration by qualified medical personell. We don't have sub-cultures glorifying prozac, nor do we have dedicated anti-depressant dispensaries choking down every street. .But in almost every situation medical cannabis has been merely a stepping stone to full legalisation and normalisation of it's usage as we see here.

And the calculations might seem cold but collectively tobacco and alcohol kill almost 8.5 million people every year more than 10x times the people that die from suicide. Even if we assume that marrijuna is only a tenth as bad as tobaaco* that's more than half a million more deaths being sanctioned.

*dubious propostion

[If my soul was made of stone]

We don't have sub-cultures glorifying prozac

What universe do you live in where people don't abuse prescription drugs? something something "I took the Wock to Poland"

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

We don't have sub-cultures glorifying prozac

What universe do you live in where people don't abuse prescription drugs? something something "I took the Wock to Poland"

People abusing prescription drugs is bad and is still considered socialy negative, we don't have political movements seeking to allow people to buy Prozac from corner stores.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

Absolutely disgusting how people can look at the harm done by alcohol and tobacco, and think that the solution is to make another vice socialy acceptable. And before people bring up gotchas about how people consume drugs illegaly and the casualties from the drug war, the number of people who die from legal tobacco and alcohol make the casualties from the war on drug look minuscule.

Have you considered that alcohol and tobacco kill lots of people because they are bad, whereas marijuana is basically benign?

[sting in the rafters]

We don't have sub-cultures glorifying prozac

What universe do you live in where people don't abuse prescription drugs? something something "I took the Wock to Poland"

People abusing prescription drugs is bad and is still considered socialy negative, we don't have political movements seeking to allow people to buy Prozac from corner stores.

Buddy your state literally founded a multi-platinum record label off of codeine abuse. There’s already evidence evidence medicinal weed reduces opioid overdoses via providing a pain-relief alternative. And if that’s not enough I mean c’mon, what isn’t clear about a right to pursuit of happiness?

[Middle-aged Europe]

Anti-depressants are a prescription only medicine that are dispensed only after careful consideration by qualified medical personell.

Um, no, they aren't.

I had three psychiatrists so far and in practically all these cases they almost tried to throw the stuff after me. Due to the side effects involved I personally grew more skeptical of classical antidepressants over time. This doesn't stop psychiatrists from wanting to fill out a prescription against my will at the first sign of a depression... and I'm not even suicidal or (usually) incapacitated to do most of my daily chores or something. At worst I'm on sick leave because I can't do my job for the time being. This leads to the standard behaviour of "I'm going to fill out a prescription for you... just in case... you can of course still decide whether to cash it in at the pharmacy." Acquaintances of mine have reported similar experiences.

So, here's the thing: Prescribing medication is the way psychiatrists are earning their money. It's also how pharmaceutical companies are making a profit. I don't deny that there are critical cases of severe mental illnesses where you don't really have any alternatives to prescribing drugs. But in my experience and those of others they are far to eager in pushing them on to you. Sounds familiar to certain other phenomena in our societies?

Before you know say "then you don't need Cannabis either"... it's a cost-benefit analysis for me. I don't really feel great without antidepressants either. It's still an almost daily struggle, it's diminishing quality of life and sick days have been piling up at times. But I'm weighing it against the side effects of medication where I have made some truly bad experiences too (again, those experiences were apparently more negative than in other cases).

[Clarko95 📚💰📈]

Scholz approves the sale of almost 25% in the Port of Hamburg and also is planning to approve the sale of a German microchip manufacturer to the Swedish subsidiary of a Chinese company.

This is, again, despite the advice of the Bundesverfassungsschutz and many, many others, including those in his own party.

Genuinely at a loss...

[Sir Mohamed]

Scholz approves the sale of almost 25% in the Port of Hamburg and also is planning to approve the sale of a German microchip manufacturer to the Swedish subsidiary of a Chinese company.

This is, again, despite the advice of the Bundesverfassungsschutz and many, many others, including those in his own party.

Genuinely at a loss...

Would this have happened under a CDU govt as well?

Sounds pretty bad, imho. Didn't Germans learn their lesson from the Nordstream saga yet? Does the public really care about this or is it going under the radar amidst the energy crisis? You know, there's a saying: "Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it".

[Isaak]

Scholz approves the sale of almost 25% in the Port of Hamburg and also is planning to approve the sale of a German microchip manufacturer to the Swedish subsidiary of a Chinese company.

This is, again, despite the advice of the Bundesverfassungsschutz and many, many others, including those in his own party.

Genuinely at a loss...

Do you perhaps mean Bundesnachrichtendienst? There is no Bundesverfassungsschutz, only the Bundesamt für Verfassungsschutz (Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution), which is usually not concerned with such matters.

Would this have happened under a CDU govt as well?

Most likely, yes.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Scholz approves the sale of almost 25% in the Port of Hamburg and also is planning to approve the sale of a German microchip manufacturer to the Swedish subsidiary of a Chinese company.

This is, again, despite the advice of the Bundesverfassungsschutz and many, many others, including those in his own party.

Genuinely at a loss...

Do you perhaps mean Bundesnachrichtendienst? There is no Bundesverfassungsschutz, only the Bundesamt für Verfassungsschutz (Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution), which is usually not concerned with such matters.

Yes, Clarko did mean the Verfassungsschutz, because while the BND is responsible for intelligence gathering in foreign countries, domestic security (including counter-intelligence) falls into the purview of the Verfassungsschutz.

The recommendation of the Verfassungsschutz is mentioned in this article, for instance:

https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article241821377/Chip-Hersteller-Bundesregierung-will-offenbar-weiteren-China-Deal-genehmigen.html

Here you can find out more about the operational field of "Economic-/scientific security" of the Verfassungsschutz:

https://www.verfassungsschutz.de/DE/themen/wirtschafts-wissenschaftsschutz/wirtschafts-wissenschaftsschutz_node.html
(German)

https://www.verfassungsschutz.de/EN/topics/economic-and-scientific-security/economic-and-scientific-security_node.html
(English)

[Isaak]

Scholz approves the sale of almost 25% in the Port of Hamburg and also is planning to approve the sale of a German microchip manufacturer to the Swedish subsidiary of a Chinese company.

This is, again, despite the advice of the Bundesverfassungsschutz and many, many others, including those in his own party.

Genuinely at a loss...

Do you perhaps mean Bundesnachrichtendienst? There is no Bundesverfassungsschutz, only the Bundesamt für Verfassungsschutz (Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution), which is usually not concerned with such matters.

Yes, Clarko did mean the Verfassungsschutz, because while the BND is responsible for intelligence gathering in foreign countries, domestic security (including counter-intelligence) falls into the purview of the Verfassungsschutz.

The recommendation of the Verfassungsschutz is mentioned in this article, for instance:

https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article241821377/Chip-Hersteller-Bundesregierung-will-offenbar-weiteren-China-Deal-genehmigen.html

Interesting, didn't know that. Even more interesting is that, according to the Welt article, both Scholz and Habeck agree that...

..."the technology of Elmos (the chip producer) is outdated. There is no risk of know-how being transferred to China."

What the Verfassungsschutz worries about is a quite abstract fear (political influence of China). And both the Chancellery and the Federal Ministry of Economic Affairs seem to consider it too abstract to justify a political intervention.