Could DC become a state by 2020? How about 2022? Puerto Rico? How would itchange the senate outlook?

[GlobeSoc]

DC being a state would give 2 generic D senators and a generic house representative

More interesting is Puerto Rico because of the separate party system on the island. Representative races would likely result in some limited successes for independence supporters or regionalists, even if senate races would likely stay out of reach for those forces. As for the NPP, they would likely stay intact as a kind of Puerto Rico pork party that would generally caucus with the majority party, although if they held the balance of power they'd generally back the democrats. The real problem comes with the pro-territory forces in the PPD. With statehood, their position would become completely untenable. It is likely that they would dissolve or at least substantially reinvent themselves, and whatever emerged from their carcass would become the main opposition to the NPP.  This party would be likely to accuse the NPP of being Republicans and generally attempt to nationalize Puerto Rican politics as much as possible given the unique politics of the island. They would likely have similar divides to the democrats, with a far-left faction in contact with continental hispanic activists and a center-left portion supported by whatever middle class exists on the island. If the local parties feel threatened by national party interference, they may implement alternate voting systems locally just to avoid being subsumed entirely, although it would not suit the democratic or republican interest to disrupt the balance on the island. For republicans, the NPP would be a useful proxy to deny left-wing candidates dominance over the island's delegation to congress, and for the Democrats, the NPP would not be a roadblock to a democratic majority, and if it was there would be local forces that democrats could support by proxy to avoid an all out conflict that would ruin any future working relationship with the NPP.

[Mr.Bakari-Sellers]

PR wont pass the Robert's CRT, he would declare it as an overreach by Congress trying to make an 11 judge panel, by passing 2 states at the same time. Dems would have to change the number of judges in order to get PR as w state, but Robert's would probably allow DC to stand since DC already gives the Prez 3 EC votes already and it would give UT  more Electors. Only 1 would pass the Robert's CRT.

SCOTUS under judicial review can declare any act by Congress unconstitutional, unless Congress changes the number of judges and Conservatives will take it to Crt

[Nutmeg]

DC already gives the Prez 3 EC votes already and it would give UT  more Electors.

The DC-for-Utah debacle was an issue prior to the last Census in 2010; Utah gained its 6th Electoral Vote already, so this no longer is being discussed.

[GlobeSoc]

Also adding DC and Puerto Rico would definitely make the argument for expanding the size of the house of representatives more urgent because that would drain several seats away from the current 50 states

[The Mikado]

Also adding DC and Puerto Rico would definitely make the argument for expanding the size of the house of representatives more urgent because that would drain several seats away from the current 50 states

Yup. Giving PR 4 seats and DC 1 seat while keeping the House at 435 would shrink several current delegations.

[Mr.Bakari-Sellers]

DC will become the 51st state, PR is gonna remain a commonwealth unless another huge Hurricane hits or natural disaster that devastates it, even without the filibuster.  Robert's isnt gonna affirm 2 D states, as swing vote. He is a maverick notte D like Garland would have.  That's why Pelosi has scheduled a DC statehood vote not a PR statehood vote now.

[brucejoel99]

Also adding DC and Puerto Rico would definitely make the argument for expanding the size of the house of representatives more urgent because that would drain several seats away from the current 50 states

Yup. Giving PR 4 seats and DC 1 seat while keeping the House at 435 would shrink several current delegations.

Yeah, going by what was done when Alaska & Hawaii were added, DC/PR would each get one new seat when first admitted (temporarily bringing the House to 437) & once the House is reapportioned for 2022, it'd return to 435 with DC keeping their 1 seat & PR probably getting 4 or even 5 seats.

This would seemingly be a perfect time to increase the size of the House using the Wyoming Rule, where the representative-to-population ratio would be equivalent to the size of the smallest entitled unit (currently Wyoming). Including DC & PR, this would result in a 553-seat House.

In this case, we'd have more sensible representation, but how much more of a sh*tshow would a House with 118 more members than right now be? Just look at the UK, where the House of Commons has 650 members yet only 427 can sit in the chamber at once. Can proportional representation be maintained without the House becoming excessively large?

[Mr.Bakari-Sellers]

The opposition can constitutionally challenge any act of Congress that's not enshrined as Amendments affecting SCOTUS appellate jurisdiction except number of Judges in Articke 2 and Amendments. PR wont pass a constitutional challenge but DC statehood will since it already gives 3 EC votes to Electoral College. PR doesnt give its EC votes, instead of eliminating filibuster, with both DC and PR statehood they would have to pass 11 judge panel on SCOTUS

[GlobeSoc]

Also adding DC and Puerto Rico would definitely make the argument for expanding the size of the house of representatives more urgent because that would drain several seats away from the current 50 states

Yup. Giving PR 4 seats and DC 1 seat while keeping the House at 435 would shrink several current delegations.

Yeah, going by what was done when Alaska & Hawaii were added, DC/PR would each get one new seat when first admitted (temporarily bringing the House to 437) & once the House is reapportioned for 2022, it'd return to 435 with DC keeping their 1 seat & PR probably getting 4 or even 5 seats.

This would seemingly be a perfect time to increase the size of the House using the Wyoming Rule, where the representative-to-population ratio would be equivalent to the size of the smallest entitled unit (currently Wyoming). Including DC & PR, this would result in a 553-seat House.

In this case, we'd have more sensible representation, but how much more of a sh*tshow would a House with 118 more members than right now be? Just look at the UK, where the House of Commons has 650 members yet only 427 can sit in the chamber at once. Can proportional representation be maintained without the House becoming excessively large?

One idea might be to double the size of the house and then use the lowering of the number of people represented by each district to admit Guam and the USVI as new states

[ctherainbow]

I'm still confused as to why the current proposals make DC a separate state, rather than just chopping the civvie portions of the District in half population-wise, and adding them to Maryland and Virginia.   I realize this wouldn't give Dems 2 extra Senators, but it would make more sense, at least to me.  Having a state that minuscule just seems absurd.  I already have a problem with Delaware and RI.     

And it's kind of sh**tty to give statehood to DC and PR but not also offer it to our other territories, just because they're little.  If we wanted to keep state populations up so that we could use the Wyoming Rule, could the Virgin Islands be attached to Puerto Rico as one state?  Puerto Rico and Virgin Islands?  Or Puerto Rican Islands?  And could Guam, NMI, and American Samoa be combined with Hawaii as the state of Pacifica or Hawaii and Pacifica?  I dunno,just flinging ideas at the wall.   

[Not Me, Us]

I'm still confused as to why the current proposals make DC a separate state, rather than just chopping the civvie portions of the District in half population-wise, and adding them to Maryland and Virginia.   I realize this wouldn't give Dems 2 extra Senators, but it would make more sense, at least to me.  Having a state that minuscule just seems absurd.  I already have a problem with Delaware and RI.    

And it's kind of sh**tty to give statehood to DC and PR but not also offer it to our other territories, just because they're little.  If we wanted to keep state populations up so that we could use the Wyoming Rule, could the Virgin Islands be attached to Puerto Rico as one state?  Puerto Rico and Virgin Islands?  Or Puerto Rican Islands?  And could Guam, NMI, and American Samoa be combined with Hawaii as the state of Pacifica or Hawaii and Pacifica?  I dunno,just flinging ideas at the wall.    

I really think we should be taking the opinions of the actual residents of these areas into account. The fact is, neither Virginia, Maryland, nor DC want that. Sizes of states really shouldn't matter. And regarding your second point, those areas are all completely different. Puerto Rico and the USVI have absolutely nothing to do with each other. Arbitrarily combining them together is doing them a total disservice, and is really no different the Imperial European powers dividing up Africa and the Middle East with no regard for the will of the people there, dividing up ethnic groups willy-nilly. What we should do, is have each of the territories hold a binding referendum to decide whether they want statehood or independence, because the current state of affairs is keeping these islands as colonies, which is completely unacceptable.

[Mr.Bakari-Sellers]

We can all thank Leader McConnell for orchestrating the blockade of Garland during the Obama years for Dems attempting to make DC and PR a state, which will allow 2 Appellate Jurisdictions to make an 11 judge panel. If McConnell didnt obstruct Garland Dems would have a D Scotus.

It's clear that Dems are getting close to a filibuster proof majority, Biden is leading by 14 points, GA A,B, IA, MT, KS gets Dems to 53 votes that will eliminate Sinema and Manchin as stopping Dems from getting rid of legislative filibuster.  TX, AK, SC, KY and AL or MS gets Dems 60 votes which will give Dems the say so over any legislation pass, we can pass PR statehood.  It's clear that when polls show TX within range of flipping it can get Dems closer to 60 than 50 votes

[clever but short]

I'm still confused as to why the current proposals make DC a separate state, rather than just chopping the civvie portions of the District in half population-wise, and adding them to Maryland and Virginia.   I realize this wouldn't give Dems 2 extra Senators, but it would make more sense, at least to me.  Having a state that minuscule just seems absurd.  I already have a problem with Delaware and RI.    

And it's kind of sh**tty to give statehood to DC and PR but not also offer it to our other territories, just because they're little.  If we wanted to keep state populations up so that we could use the Wyoming Rule, could the Virgin Islands be attached to Puerto Rico as one state?  Puerto Rico and Virgin Islands?  Or Puerto Rican Islands?  And could Guam, NMI, and American Samoa be combined with Hawaii as the state of Pacifica or Hawaii and Pacifica?  I dunno,just flinging ideas at the wall.    

I really think we should be taking the opinions of the actual residents of these areas into account. The fact is, neither Virginia, Maryland, nor DC want that. Sizes of states really shouldn't matter. And regarding your second point, those areas are all completely different. Puerto Rico and the USVI have absolutely nothing to do with each other. Arbitrarily combining them together is doing them a total disservice, and is really no different the Imperial European powers dividing up Africa and the Middle East with no regard for the will of the people there, dividing up ethnic groups willy-nilly. What we should do, is have each of the territories hold a binding referendum to decide whether they want statehood or independence, because the current state of affairs is keeping these islands as colonies, which is completely unacceptable.

[ibagli]

We can all thank Leader McConnell for orchestrating the blockade of Garland during the Obama years for Dems attempting to make DC and PR a state, which will allow 2 Appellate Jurisdictions to make an 11 judge panel.

You've posted some variant of this a few times, and it doesn't make sense. The number of justices on the Supreme Court is currently fixed by law at nine, regardless of the number of states or the number of appellate courts. There have been nine justices since there were 26 states, DC and PR are already under the jurisdiction of the DC and 1st circuits respectively, and there are already more federal appellate courts than Supreme Court seats.

[Mr.Bakari-Sellers]

We can all thank Leader McConnell for orchestrating the blockade of Garland during the Obama years for Dems attempting to make DC and PR a state, which will allow 2 Appellate Jurisdictions to make an 11 judge panel.

You've posted some variant of this a few times, and it doesn't make sense. The number of justices on the Supreme Court is fixed at nine, regardless of the number of states or the number of appellate courts.

Article 2 says that Congress can change SCOTUS appellate Jurisdiction at any time how do you think we got Judicial Teview and we got from 3 to 9 justices on the SCoTUS, I am in Law School. MARBURY V MADISON says Congress has the right to change Appellate Jurisdictions so SCOTUS, meaning number of justices. It wasnt 9 justices there were only 3 back during Federalist times.

We have had this in 8th grade, high school civics and if you went to College, History class. If you are in Law school a 4th ×

[CookieDamage]

I'm still confused as to why the current proposals make DC a separate state, rather than just chopping the civvie portions of the District in half population-wise, and adding them to Maryland and Virginia.   I realize this wouldn't give Dems 2 extra Senators, but it would make more sense, at least to me.  Having a state that minuscule just seems absurd.  I already have a problem with Delaware and RI.    

And it's kind of sh**tty to give statehood to DC and PR but not also offer it to our other territories, just because they're little.  If we wanted to keep state populations up so that we could use the Wyoming Rule, could the Virgin Islands be attached to Puerto Rico as one state?  Puerto Rico and Virgin Islands?  Or Puerto Rican Islands?  And could Guam, NMI, and American Samoa be combined with Hawaii as the state of Pacifica or Hawaii and Pacifica?  I dunno,just flinging ideas at the wall.    

I really think we should be taking the opinions of the actual residents of these areas into account. The fact is, neither Virginia, Maryland, nor DC want that. Sizes of states really shouldn't matter. And regarding your second point, those areas are all completely different. Puerto Rico and the USVI have absolutely nothing to do with each other. Arbitrarily combining them together is doing them a total disservice, and is really no different the Imperial European powers dividing up Africa and the Middle East with no regard for the will of the people there, dividing up ethnic groups willy-nilly. What we should do, is have each of the territories hold a binding referendum to decide whether they want statehood or independence, because the current state of affairs is keeping these islands as colonies, which is completely unacceptable.

The USVI have enough people to form a state, maybe Dems could make it a state as well if we win the senate and presidency. Stacey Plaskett for Senator!

[Brittain33]

St. Croix is quite far from St. Thomas and St. John, really they should be two separate states.

[brucejoel99]

I'm still confused as to why the current proposals make DC a separate state, rather than just chopping the civvie portions of the District in half population-wise, and adding them to Maryland and Virginia.   I realize this wouldn't give Dems 2 extra Senators, but it would make more sense, at least to me.  Having a state that minuscule just seems absurd.  I already have a problem with Delaware and RI.    

And it's kind of sh**tty to give statehood to DC and PR but not also offer it to our other territories, just because they're little.  If we wanted to keep state populations up so that we could use the Wyoming Rule, could the Virgin Islands be attached to Puerto Rico as one state?  Puerto Rico and Virgin Islands?  Or Puerto Rican Islands?  And could Guam, NMI, and American Samoa be combined with Hawaii as the state of Pacifica or Hawaii and Pacifica?  I dunno,just flinging ideas at the wall.    

I really think we should be taking the opinions of the actual residents of these areas into account. The fact is, neither Virginia, Maryland, nor DC want that. Sizes of states really shouldn't matter. And regarding your second point, those areas are all completely different. Puerto Rico and the USVI have absolutely nothing to do with each other. Arbitrarily combining them together is doing them a total disservice, and is really no different the Imperial European powers dividing up Africa and the Middle East with no regard for the will of the people there, dividing up ethnic groups willy-nilly. What we should do, is have each of the territories hold a binding referendum to decide whether they want statehood or independence, because the current state of affairs is keeping these islands as colonies, which is completely unacceptable.

The USVI have enough people to form a state, maybe Dems could make it a state as well if we win the senate and presidency. Stacey Plaskett for Senator!

The USVI's population is less than 1/5th of Wyoming's.

[ctherainbow]

I'm still confused as to why the current proposals make DC a separate state, rather than just chopping the civvie portions of the District in half population-wise, and adding them to Maryland and Virginia.   I realize this wouldn't give Dems 2 extra Senators, but it would make more sense, at least to me.  Having a state that minuscule just seems absurd.  I already have a problem with Delaware and RI.    

And it's kind of sh**tty to give statehood to DC and PR but not also offer it to our other territories, just because they're little.  If we wanted to keep state populations up so that we could use the Wyoming Rule, could the Virgin Islands be attached to Puerto Rico as one state?  Puerto Rico and Virgin Islands?  Or Puerto Rican Islands?  And could Guam, NMI, and American Samoa be combined with Hawaii as the state of Pacifica or Hawaii and Pacifica?  I dunno,just flinging ideas at the wall.    

I really think we should be taking the opinions of the actual residents of these areas into account. The fact is, neither Virginia, Maryland, nor DC want that. Sizes of states really shouldn't matter. And regarding your second point, those areas are all completely different. Puerto Rico and the USVI have absolutely nothing to do with each other. Arbitrarily combining them together is doing them a total disservice, and is really no different the Imperial European powers dividing up Africa and the Middle East with no regard for the will of the people there, dividing up ethnic groups willy-nilly. What we should do, is have each of the territories hold a binding referendum to decide whether they want statehood or independence, because the current state of affairs is keeping these islands as colonies, which is completely unacceptable.

Of course we should take their opinions into account!  I'm saying it seems to ME to be absurd, not that it's absurd from the perspective of the citizens who live there.  I have not done a vast amount of research into the DC statehood debate, so I was not aware that there was a preponderance of polling that showed resistance to being merged with Virginia and/or Maryland.  Would you be willing to link me so I could better educate myself?   

And I'm cognizant of the history of colonialism and how destructive it can be to mash disparate cultures together into arbitrary states.  Also, didn't mention independence referendums because I thought that was a given; especially since the Pacific Islands territories have little to do with the US besides being military staging grounds. 

But as far as the USVI and PR are concerned, when looking at statehood, combining them together would not result in a state that's more culturally clashing than ones that currently exist.  They're neighboring islands that, using the example of a current state, are geographically closer to each other than Scranton is to Philadelphia, and they're also not much less ethnically balanced than Scranton is to Philadelphia.  Additionally, one out of ten USVI residents is of Puerto Rican heritage. 

I would support the USVI being formed into its own state, if we could answer the question of how we would afford representation, especially since we would also be granting statehood to the other territories, making the smallest state the NMI, with their 53,883 residents.  That would more than widen the disparity between the sizes of Congressional districts, and if we were to reform to the Wyoming Rule, would balloon our national legislature to over 5,700 members.  I don't see how we give congressional representation to the small territories if they were to become states, without combining them to be larger entities.  Anybody have ideas?

[CookieDamage]

I'm still confused as to why the current proposals make DC a separate state, rather than just chopping the civvie portions of the District in half population-wise, and adding them to Maryland and Virginia.   I realize this wouldn't give Dems 2 extra Senators, but it would make more sense, at least to me.  Having a state that minuscule just seems absurd.  I already have a problem with Delaware and RI.    

And it's kind of sh**tty to give statehood to DC and PR but not also offer it to our other territories, just because they're little.  If we wanted to keep state populations up so that we could use the Wyoming Rule, could the Virgin Islands be attached to Puerto Rico as one state?  Puerto Rico and Virgin Islands?  Or Puerto Rican Islands?  And could Guam, NMI, and American Samoa be combined with Hawaii as the state of Pacifica or Hawaii and Pacifica?  I dunno,just flinging ideas at the wall.    

I really think we should be taking the opinions of the actual residents of these areas into account. The fact is, neither Virginia, Maryland, nor DC want that. Sizes of states really shouldn't matter. And regarding your second point, those areas are all completely different. Puerto Rico and the USVI have absolutely nothing to do with each other. Arbitrarily combining them together is doing them a total disservice, and is really no different the Imperial European powers dividing up Africa and the Middle East with no regard for the will of the people there, dividing up ethnic groups willy-nilly. What we should do, is have each of the territories hold a binding referendum to decide whether they want statehood or independence, because the current state of affairs is keeping these islands as colonies, which is completely unacceptable.

The USVI have enough people to form a state, maybe Dems could make it a state as well if we win the senate and presidency. Stacey Plaskett for Senator!

The USVI's population is less than 1/5th of Wyoming's.

Stacey. Plaskett. For. Senate.

[VBM]

You guys are insane.

0% chance DC becomes a state and I don’t think it should be. The point of DC was to be a neutral place, with no state loyalties at all. And frankly it’ll look like a power grab by the left (which shouldn’t bother me the way the right handled the SCOTUS situation - but what can I say)

Puerto Rico on the other hand could be a state and should be one. And it won’t appear as partisan as there is a slight chance of it being a Lean D swing state.

So the people in DC don’t get equal representation compared to the rest of US citizens? How does that make any sense?

[Not Me, Us]

I'm still confused as to why the current proposals make DC a separate state, rather than just chopping the civvie portions of the District in half population-wise, and adding them to Maryland and Virginia.   I realize this wouldn't give Dems 2 extra Senators, but it would make more sense, at least to me.  Having a state that minuscule just seems absurd.  I already have a problem with Delaware and RI.    

And it's kind of sh**tty to give statehood to DC and PR but not also offer it to our other territories, just because they're little.  If we wanted to keep state populations up so that we could use the Wyoming Rule, could the Virgin Islands be attached to Puerto Rico as one state?  Puerto Rico and Virgin Islands?  Or Puerto Rican Islands?  And could Guam, NMI, and American Samoa be combined with Hawaii as the state of Pacifica or Hawaii and Pacifica?  I dunno,just flinging ideas at the wall.    

I really think we should be taking the opinions of the actual residents of these areas into account. The fact is, neither Virginia, Maryland, nor DC want that. Sizes of states really shouldn't matter. And regarding your second point, those areas are all completely different. Puerto Rico and the USVI have absolutely nothing to do with each other. Arbitrarily combining them together is doing them a total disservice, and is really no different the Imperial European powers dividing up Africa and the Middle East with no regard for the will of the people there, dividing up ethnic groups willy-nilly. What we should do, is have each of the territories hold a binding referendum to decide whether they want statehood or independence, because the current state of affairs is keeping these islands as colonies, which is completely unacceptable.

Of course we should take their opinions into account!  I'm saying it seems to ME to be absurd, not that it's absurd from the perspective of the citizens who live there.  I have not done a vast amount of research into the DC statehood debate, so I was not aware that there was a preponderance of polling that showed resistance to being merged with Virginia and/or Maryland.  Would you be willing to link me so I could better educate myself?   

And I'm cognizant of the history of colonialism and how destructive it can be to mash disparate cultures together into arbitrary states.  Also, didn't mention independence referendums because I thought that was a given; especially since the Pacific Islands territories have little to do with the US besides being military staging grounds. 

But as far as the USVI and PR are concerned, when looking at statehood, combining them together would not result in a state that's more culturally clashing than ones that currently exist.  They're neighboring islands that, using the example of a current state, are geographically closer to each other than Scranton is to Philadelphia, and they're also not much less ethnically balanced than Scranton is to Philadelphia.  Additionally, one out of ten USVI residents is of Puerto Rican heritage. 

I would support the USVI being formed into its own state, if we could answer the question of how we would afford representation, especially since we would also be granting statehood to the other territories, making the smallest state the NMI, with their 53,883 residents.  That would more than widen the disparity between the sizes of Congressional districts, and if we were to reform to the Wyoming Rule, would balloon our national legislature to over 5,700 members.  I don't see how we give congressional representation to the small territories if they were to become states, without combining them to be larger entities.  Anybody have ideas?

https://www.publicpolicypolling.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/PPP_Release_MD_42216.pdf

Regarding the retrocession of DC into Maryland, I found this PPP poll from 2016 that showed only 28% of Marylanders supported annexing DC, 44% opposing, and 28% not sure. I couldn't find any recent polls of DC residents, but given that 85% supported statehood in the 2016 referendum, I doubt it's popular.

[Don't blame me I voted for Harris]

PR probably won't since it will be a swing state, and I don't think both parties have interests with that.

There's approximately a 0% chance PR is anything but a solid blue state if it were to ever to be admitted.

[Roll Roons]

PR probably won't since it will be a swing state, and I don't think both parties have interests with that.

There's approximately a 0% chance PR is anything but a solid blue state if it were to ever to be admitted.

Puerto Rico's current Rep is actually a Republican. I think it would vote like the Cuban districts in South Florida.

[Mr.Phips]

By 2022, PR maybe, DC no. I'll be shocked if the Dems have more than 50 Senators in the next Congress (and even that many is only likely, not certain), so it only takes 1 Democratic Senator voting no (or simply not voting) to sink any proposal under even the most optimistic assumptions, if the Republicans are a solid no bloc. Getting some Republicans to vote in favor of either PR statehood or reviving the DC Voting Rights Amendment is likelier to happen than getting any of them to support DC statehood, as there are reasons other than perceived partisan advantage to oppose DC statehood.

Why would you be shocked?

First off, Doug Jones is going to lose in Alabama, so the Dems need to pickup four other seats just to get to 50. Arizona and Colorado look to be the only certain gains right now.  They should get at least one of Maine and North Carolina, and getting both is possible but far from guaranteed.  While Iowa, Montana, and the Georgia special aren't impossible, none of them is likely and they become less likely the more it looks like Biden will win as there are a small number of voters who favor divided government more than either party and thus will vote Republican in the Senate race precisely to prevent a Democratic trifecta even if they vote for Biden for President. Everything needs to go better than expected, with no surprises the other way, such as Peters losing in Michigan, to get the Dems past 50. Not impossible, but not looking likely right now.

These voters thought this way in 2016 and ended up with a right wing Republican trifecta.