How does Gottheimer do in his primary?

[Dipper Josh]

Thank you for answering my question.  I maintain primarying Gottheimer with an AOC type would be akin to converting a Safe D seat to a Likely R seat for no reason and that Gottheimer in particular gets noticeably more hate than other Democrats with similar views, but this is still a reasonable enough explanation that I can give them the benefit of the doubt and have modified my post accordingly.  

Yeah this isn't true at all.

I run in Progressives circles like a bear runs in the woods. He isn't brought up any more than the average Blue Dog and doesn't even come close to the amount of sh**t they've thrown at Cuellar. Looking at the senate, Sinema and Feinstein have also been criticized far more than him.

Also Likely R? Seriously? 337k voters in NJ-05 in 2016, followed by 301k in 2018, which means 92% of 2016 presidential turnout voted in 2018. Gottheimer won by 14 points. So you're theory is that an extra 8% is so Republican that coupled with this mass exodus of moderate Gottheimer voters to the GOP candidate would lead to this seat being not only Lean but Likely R?

[EastAnglianLefty]

I think it's probably true that the seat would be lost with a very economically left-wing candidate. That said, a candidate in the middle of the Democratic caucus wouldn't struggle. In addition, Gottheimer is significantly more confrontational towards the left than most Democrats in Republican seats, so it's not a shock he isn't universally beloved amongst DSA types.

[Abolish ICE]

Thank you for answering my question.  I maintain primarying Gottheimer with an AOC type would be akin to converting a Safe D seat to a Likely R seat for no reason and that Gottheimer in particular gets noticeably more hate than other Democrats with similar views, but this is still a reasonable enough explanation that I can give them the benefit of the doubt and have modified my post accordingly.  

Yeah this isn't true at all.

I run in Progressives circles like a bear runs in the woods. He isn't brought up any more than the average Blue Dog and doesn't even come close to the amount of sh**t they've thrown at Cuellar. Looking at the senate, Sinema and Feinstein have also been criticized far more than him.

Also Likely R? Seriously? 337k voters in NJ-05 in 2016, followed by 301k in 2018, which means 92% of 2016 presidential turnout voted in 2018. Gottheimer won by 14 points. So you're theory is that an extra 8% is so Republican that coupled with this mass exodus of moderate Gottheimer voters to the GOP candidate would lead to this seat being not only Lean but Likely R?

Cuellar and Sinema are also far more conservative and prove to #ModerateHeros grandstanding than Gottheimer.  I'm talking about Democrats with similar views to Gottheimer's (who seems to be a pretty generic moderate from what I've read) and I respectfully disagree with you.  He does seem to get a lot more hate, but if he goes out of his way to be confrontational towards progressives - something I'm unaware of him ever doing ftr - the way folks like pre-Mayoral Rahm Emmanuel did then that might explain.

And yeah, I'm serious, although I initially considered Safe R instead of Likely R, but it's a Presidential election year.  I'd also kindly ask you not to put words in my mouth.  In this case, you're completely wrong about my reasoning.

A Democrat in NJ-5 is very different than a Democrat in NY-14 or a Democrat in Burlington.  It's not that one type is good and the others are bad nor is it that one is a DINO while the others are "real Democrats," they're just very different constituencies.  Furthermore, this is a very ancestrally Republican district.  If you run a DSA/AOC type in NJ-5, you won't just get killed with independents, plenty of Democrats will either sit the race out or crossover to vote Republican/Third Party.  I mean, do you really think this is a winning message:

Moderate shill running in a district full of #elitist suburbanites who voted republican but flipped to dems b/c orange man bad= perfect fit for the district!

Maybe if you guys want suburban voters to consider voting for Berniecrats, you might want to consider making a good-faith effort to reach out, address folks' concerns, and show us that you guys give a crap about our views.  When suburban voters hear many - though certainly not all - of the leading Berniecrats talk, they get pissed for the same reason that progressives (rightly) got pissed at John Prickenlooper for his rants about "muh evulz socialism!!!" during the 2020 primary debates.  A DSA type in NJ-5 would more or less just run around attacking the district's voters and why would you vote for someone who clearly has nothing but contempt for you?

*snip* In addition, Gottheimer is significantly more confrontational towards the left than most Democrats in Republican seats *snip*

How so?  I've never heard this before, so I'm genuinely curious.  Would you mind giving a couple of examples?

[EastAnglianLefty]

*snip* In addition, Gottheimer is significantly more confrontational towards the left than most Democrats in Republican seats *snip*

How so?  I've never heard this before, so I'm genuinely curious.  Would you mind giving a couple of examples?

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/03/07/opinions/why-as-members-of-congress-we-must-call-out-rep-omars-comments-schneider-luria-gottheimer/index.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_Solvers_Caucus

[Democrats Hate Leftists More Than Predators]

*snip* In addition, Gottheimer is significantly more confrontational towards the left than most Democrats in Republican seats *snip*

How so?  I've never heard this before, so I'm genuinely curious.  Would you mind giving a couple of examples?

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/03/07/opinions/why-as-members-of-congress-we-must-call-out-rep-omars-comments-schneider-luria-gottheimer/index.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_Solvers_Caucus

The first article is something X would agree with. The man's been very unapologetic about his views on Ilhan Omar.

As for my personal issues with Gottheimer, I've done some soul-searching and moved quite a bit on the issue. He's been hostile with The Squad, comparing them to the Tea Party. His ties to No Labels (not to mention the most incompetent strategist of the 21st century - yes, even worse than Mook!) are also bad, but those can be handwaved. NJ-5 is simply not a populist district.

What I can't excuse is his borderline neoconservative foreign policy views. And we aren't even talking about Israel here - the guy was one of six Democrats to vote against an amendment prohibiting unilateral strikes on Iran without Congressional approval, and has been a steadfast ally of Saudi Arabia's war against Yemen. IIRC he's also fairly conservative on immigration, whipping his caucus into supporting the Senate's compromise plan instead of the House plan.

After re-evaluating my views, I think Democrats can do better here (especially on immigration and fopo). I think he gets more attention from the left because he's simply a leader of the new centrist movement. He's more visible in Congressional politics than, say, Conor Lamb or pre-impeachment Jeff Van Drew. I'm very torn - I definitely think we can do better than Josh Gottheimer, but at the same time I wouldn't be heartbroken if Kreibich lost.

[YE]

I mean 2020 might be a good enough D year to hold the seat unless the challenger really screws up (I'll give the challenger the benefit of the doubt and assume him or her won't go around attacking voters in the district) but there are better targets right now than wasting money here such as CO or KY Senate, or NY-15/16/17.

[Ferguson97]

I live in Gottheimer's district and he is going to win easily. Minimum 80% of the primary vote.

[Democrats Hate Leftists More Than Predators]

https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/status/1272545677864820738?s=19

Was not expecting this, to say the least.

[Zaybay]

https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/status/1272545677864820738?s=19

Was not expecting this, to say the least. Would rather see an andorsement in NY-15 (we need to stop Diaz).

He did endorse in NY-15.

Sanders endorsed two challengers to House incumbents, backing Jamaal Bowman (who is challenging Rep. Eliot Engel in NY-16) and Cori Bush (who is challenging Rep. Lacy Clay in MO-01). In the battleground TX-10, he supported Mike Siegel (who still has a primary runoff) and backed candidates in two open seat races: Samelys Lopez in NY-15, Mondaire Jones in NY-17.

[Democrats Hate Leftists More Than Predators]

Awesome, edited it accordingly.

[Abolish ICE]

*snip* In addition, Gottheimer is significantly more confrontational towards the left than most Democrats in Republican seats *snip*

How so?  I've never heard this before, so I'm genuinely curious.  Would you mind giving a couple of examples?

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/03/07/opinions/why-as-members-of-congress-we-must-call-out-rep-omars-comments-schneider-luria-gottheimer/index.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_Solvers_Caucus

The first article is something X would agree with. The man's been very unapologetic about his views on Ilhan Omar.

As for my personal issues with Gottheimer, I've done some soul-searching and moved quite a bit on the issue. He's been hostile with The Squad, comparing them to the Tea Party. His ties to No Labels (not to mention the most incompetent strategist of the 21st century - yes, even worse than Mook!) are also bad, but those can be handwaved. NJ-5 is simply not a populist district.

What I can't excuse is his borderline neoconservative foreign policy views. And we aren't even talking about Israel here - the guy was one of six Democrats to vote against an amendment prohibiting unilateral strikes on Iran without Congressional approval, and has been a steadfast ally of Saudi Arabia's war against Yemen. IIRC he's also fairly conservative on immigration, whipping his caucus into supporting the Senate's compromise plan instead of the House plan.

After re-evaluating my views, I think Democrats can do better here (especially on immigration and fopo). I think he gets more attention from the left because he's simply a leader of the new centrist movement. He's more visible in Congressional politics than, say, Conor Lamb or pre-impeachment Jeff Van Drew. I'm very torn - I definitely think we can do better than Josh Gottheimer, but at the same time I wouldn't be heartbroken if Kreibich lost.

- Re: Omar: Yeah, well, I don't think I have anything to apologize for there  I mean, the woman is a rabid anti-Semite, has said she believes Tara Reade's false rape allegations but is still voting for Biden, has made (to put it kindly) some pretty sketchy comments about 9/11, may have committed marriage fraud, and is generally an all around grifter who spent over $20,000 in campaign donations on travel expenses for the man she was having an affair with at the time.  She's simply a horrible person and it's an embarrassment that she hasn't been booted from the House Democratic Caucus.  I mean, even the Republicans stripped Steve King of his committee assignments  But I digress...

- Relatedly, for me (and I say this as someone is pretty progressive), attacking "the Squad" is a point in Gottheimer's favor.  They're all deeply divisive, highly narcissistic individuals who do everything but scream into a bullhorn that - as far as they're concerned - anyone who doesn't agree with them 100% of the time is an enemy of the people.  

AOC is the least awful, but she's still a self-aggrandizing, narcissistic bomb-thrower who would rather get nothing than get 67% of what she wants.  She also comes across as a bit of a left-wing version of a Trumpian demagogue at times.  She seems to really believe her own media hype, so my guess is she goes down in flames in an ill-fated attempt to primary Schumer or Cuomo.  She actually reminds me a bit of Alan Grayson, except she's a less effective legislator and better at getting media attention.  

I've already discussed Omar.  Rashida Tlaib is a deplorable anti-Semite who pals around with folks who funnel money to Hezbollah and has literally said "There's kind of a calming feeling I [Tlaib] always tell folks when I think of the Holocaust..."  

Pressley got elected by primarying an effective and dedicated progressive from the right (people forget that Pressley was generally the more conservative candidate on most issues).  Then again, her campaign wasn't terribly ideological and consisted almost entirely of repugnant anti-white race-baiting.  

If Gottheimer is willing to call out the squad of deplorables, then more power to him.  And I can gaurentee you that the overwhelming majority of suburban Democrats feel the same way, if not even more so than I do.  

- The Problem Solvers Caucus is awful and it's very disappointing to learn that Gottheimer is part of their leadership.  

- The neocon stuff you mentioned is bad, no getting around it and frankly, his actions on immigration are even worse.  Based on those criticisms, I'd potentially be open to supporting a primary challenge here.  However, a Berniecrat - much less an AOC style deplorable - is simply a non-starter in this district.  

If you're saying Gottheimer should be primaried by a similar Democrat who will still vocally oppose the AOC crowd, build a strong pro-Israel voting record, and have a relatively moderate voting record (especially on economic issues), but won't coddle the Saudi government or oppose pro-immigration legislation then that might be a discussion worth having (although I'm still kinda skeptical given that Gottheimer has basically locked down this district for us).  However, Kreibich would get destroyed if she somehow got nominated as would an ideologically similar candidate.  

Honestly, if we somehow nominate Kreibich then the DCCC should probably just cut her loose and not waste any money on this seat since it's an expensive media market and we'd have already basically given it away to the Republicans in every other meaningful sense.  Spending money here with a Berniecrat as the nominee would be like the NRCC spending money on PA-1 had Fitzpatrick's primary challenger won.  

If Berniecrats want suburban votes in Democratic primaries (and there are plenty of progressive votes to be gotten in suburbia for folks willing to put in the work and do so in good-faith), they're gonna have to meet suburbanites halfway on policy, rhetorical style, and messaging (as well as, you know, not dissing us at every opportunity).  Otherwise, with all due respect, you guys are wasting your time.  

[EastAnglianLefty]

*snip* In addition, Gottheimer is significantly more confrontational towards the left than most Democrats in Republican seats *snip*

How so?  I've never heard this before, so I'm genuinely curious.  Would you mind giving a couple of examples?

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/03/07/opinions/why-as-members-of-congress-we-must-call-out-rep-omars-comments-schneider-luria-gottheimer/index.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_Solvers_Caucus

The first article is something X would agree with. The man's been very unapologetic about his views on Ilhan Omar.

As for my personal issues with Gottheimer, I've done some soul-searching and moved quite a bit on the issue. He's been hostile with The Squad, comparing them to the Tea Party. His ties to No Labels (not to mention the most incompetent strategist of the 21st century - yes, even worse than Mook!) are also bad, but those can be handwaved. NJ-5 is simply not a populist district.

What I can't excuse is his borderline neoconservative foreign policy views. And we aren't even talking about Israel here - the guy was one of six Democrats to vote against an amendment prohibiting unilateral strikes on Iran without Congressional approval, and has been a steadfast ally of Saudi Arabia's war against Yemen. IIRC he's also fairly conservative on immigration, whipping his caucus into supporting the Senate's compromise plan instead of the House plan.

After re-evaluating my views, I think Democrats can do better here (especially on immigration and fopo). I think he gets more attention from the left because he's simply a leader of the new centrist movement. He's more visible in Congressional politics than, say, Conor Lamb or pre-impeachment Jeff Van Drew. I'm very torn - I definitely think we can do better than Josh Gottheimer, but at the same time I wouldn't be heartbroken if Kreibich lost.

- Re: Omar: Yeah, well, I don't think I have anything to apologize for there  I mean, the woman is a rabid anti-Semite, has said she believes Tara Reade's false rape allegations but is still voting for Biden, has made (to put it kindly) some pretty sketchy comments about 9/11, may have committed marriage fraud, and is generally an all around grifter who spent over $20,000 in campaign donations on travel expenses for the man she was having an affair with at the time.  She's simply a horrible person and it's an embarrassment that she hasn't been booted from the House Democratic Caucus.  I mean, even the Republicans stripped Steve King of his committee assignments  But I digress...

- Relatedly, for me (and I say this as someone is pretty progressive), attacking "the Squad" is a point in Gottheimer's favor.  They're all deeply divisive, highly narcissistic individuals who do everything but scream into a bullhorn that - as far as they're concerned - anyone who doesn't agree with them 100% of the time is an enemy of the people.  

AOC is the least awful, but she's still a self-aggrandizing, narcissistic bomb-thrower who would rather get nothing than get 67% of what she wants.  She also comes across as a bit of a left-wing version of a Trumpian demagogue at times.  She seems to really believe her own media hype, so my guess is she goes down in flames in an ill-fated attempt to primary Schumer or Cuomo.  She actually reminds me a bit of Alan Grayson, except she's a less effective legislator and better at getting media attention.  

I've already discussed Omar.  Rashida Tlaib is a deplorable anti-Semite who pals around with folks who funnel money to Hezbollah and has literally said "There's kind of a calming feeling I [Tlaib] always tell folks when I think of the Holocaust..."  

Pressley got elected by primarying an effective and dedicated progressive from the right (people forget that Pressley was generally the more conservative candidate on most issues).  Then again, her campaign wasn't terribly ideological and consisted almost entirely of repugnant anti-white race-baiting.  

If Gottheimer is willing to call out the squad of deplorables, then more power to him.  And I can gaurentee you that the overwhelming majority of suburban Democrats feel the same way, if not even more so than I do.  

- The Problem Solvers Caucus is awful and it's very disappointing to learn that Gottheimer is part of their leadership.  

- The neocon stuff you mentioned is bad, no getting around it and frankly, his actions on immigration are even worse.  Based on those criticisms, I'd potentially be open to supporting a primary challenge here.  However, a Berniecrat - much less an AOC style deplorable - is simply a non-starter in this district.  

If you're saying Gottheimer should be primaried by a similar Democrat who will still vocally oppose the AOC crowd, build a strong pro-Israel voting record, and have a relatively moderate voting record (especially on economic issues), but won't coddle the Saudi government or oppose pro-immigration legislation then that might be a discussion worth having (although I'm still kinda skeptical given that Gottheimer has basically locked down this district for us).  However, Kreibich would get destroyed if she somehow got nominated as would an ideologically similar candidate.  

Honestly, if we somehow nominate Kreibich then the DCCC should probably just cut her loose and not waste any money on this seat since it's an expensive media market and we'd have already basically given it away to the Republicans in every other meaningful sense.  Spending money here with a Berniecrat as the nominee would be like the NRCC spending money on PA-1 had Fitzpatrick's primary challenger won.  

If Berniecrats want suburban votes in Democratic primaries (and there are plenty of progressive votes to be gotten in suburbia for folks willing to put in the work and do so in good-faith), they're gonna have to meet suburbanites halfway on policy, rhetorical style, and messaging (as well as, you know, not dissing us at every opportunity).  Otherwise, with all due respect, you guys are wasting your time.  

You're misunderstanding me. I'm not explaining why I object to Gottheimer - I live on the other side of the Atlantic Ocean, so the composition of NJ's congressional delegation is not something I lose sleep over either way. I was setting out the reasons DSA types object to Gottheimer, and would object to him more than a congressman in a similar district with a similar voting record.

[Abolish ICE]

*snip* In addition, Gottheimer is significantly more confrontational towards the left than most Democrats in Republican seats *snip*

How so?  I've never heard this before, so I'm genuinely curious.  Would you mind giving a couple of examples?

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/03/07/opinions/why-as-members-of-congress-we-must-call-out-rep-omars-comments-schneider-luria-gottheimer/index.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_Solvers_Caucus

The first article is something X would agree with. The man's been very unapologetic about his views on Ilhan Omar.

As for my personal issues with Gottheimer, I've done some soul-searching and moved quite a bit on the issue. He's been hostile with The Squad, comparing them to the Tea Party. His ties to No Labels (not to mention the most incompetent strategist of the 21st century - yes, even worse than Mook!) are also bad, but those can be handwaved. NJ-5 is simply not a populist district.

What I can't excuse is his borderline neoconservative foreign policy views. And we aren't even talking about Israel here - the guy was one of six Democrats to vote against an amendment prohibiting unilateral strikes on Iran without Congressional approval, and has been a steadfast ally of Saudi Arabia's war against Yemen. IIRC he's also fairly conservative on immigration, whipping his caucus into supporting the Senate's compromise plan instead of the House plan.

After re-evaluating my views, I think Democrats can do better here (especially on immigration and fopo). I think he gets more attention from the left because he's simply a leader of the new centrist movement. He's more visible in Congressional politics than, say, Conor Lamb or pre-impeachment Jeff Van Drew. I'm very torn - I definitely think we can do better than Josh Gottheimer, but at the same time I wouldn't be heartbroken if Kreibich lost.

- Re: Omar: Yeah, well, I don't think I have anything to apologize for there  I mean, the woman is a rabid anti-Semite, has said she believes Tara Reade's false rape allegations but is still voting for Biden, has made (to put it kindly) some pretty sketchy comments about 9/11, may have committed marriage fraud, and is generally an all around grifter who spent over $20,000 in campaign donations on travel expenses for the man she was having an affair with at the time.  She's simply a horrible person and it's an embarrassment that she hasn't been booted from the House Democratic Caucus.  I mean, even the Republicans stripped Steve King of his committee assignments  But I digress...

- Relatedly, for me (and I say this as someone is pretty progressive), attacking "the Squad" is a point in Gottheimer's favor.  They're all deeply divisive, highly narcissistic individuals who do everything but scream into a bullhorn that - as far as they're concerned - anyone who doesn't agree with them 100% of the time is an enemy of the people.  

AOC is the least awful, but she's still a self-aggrandizing, narcissistic bomb-thrower who would rather get nothing than get 67% of what she wants.  She also comes across as a bit of a left-wing version of a Trumpian demagogue at times.  She seems to really believe her own media hype, so my guess is she goes down in flames in an ill-fated attempt to primary Schumer or Cuomo.  She actually reminds me a bit of Alan Grayson, except she's a less effective legislator and better at getting media attention.  

I've already discussed Omar.  Rashida Tlaib is a deplorable anti-Semite who pals around with folks who funnel money to Hezbollah and has literally said "There's kind of a calming feeling I [Tlaib] always tell folks when I think of the Holocaust..."  

Pressley got elected by primarying an effective and dedicated progressive from the right (people forget that Pressley was generally the more conservative candidate on most issues).  Then again, her campaign wasn't terribly ideological and consisted almost entirely of repugnant anti-white race-baiting.  

If Gottheimer is willing to call out the squad of deplorables, then more power to him.  And I can gaurentee you that the overwhelming majority of suburban Democrats feel the same way, if not even more so than I do.  

- The Problem Solvers Caucus is awful and it's very disappointing to learn that Gottheimer is part of their leadership.  

- The neocon stuff you mentioned is bad, no getting around it and frankly, his actions on immigration are even worse.  Based on those criticisms, I'd potentially be open to supporting a primary challenge here.  However, a Berniecrat - much less an AOC style deplorable - is simply a non-starter in this district.  

If you're saying Gottheimer should be primaried by a similar Democrat who will still vocally oppose the AOC crowd, build a strong pro-Israel voting record, and have a relatively moderate voting record (especially on economic issues), but won't coddle the Saudi government or oppose pro-immigration legislation then that might be a discussion worth having (although I'm still kinda skeptical given that Gottheimer has basically locked down this district for us).  However, Kreibich would get destroyed if she somehow got nominated as would an ideologically similar candidate.  

Honestly, if we somehow nominate Kreibich then the DCCC should probably just cut her loose and not waste any money on this seat since it's an expensive media market and we'd have already basically given it away to the Republicans in every other meaningful sense.  Spending money here with a Berniecrat as the nominee would be like the NRCC spending money on PA-1 had Fitzpatrick's primary challenger won.  

If Berniecrats want suburban votes in Democratic primaries (and there are plenty of progressive votes to be gotten in suburbia for folks willing to put in the work and do so in good-faith), they're gonna have to meet suburbanites halfway on policy, rhetorical style, and messaging (as well as, you know, not dissing us at every opportunity).  Otherwise, with all due respect, you guys are wasting your time.  

You're misunderstanding me. I'm not explaining why I object to Gottheimer - I live on the other side of the Atlantic Ocean, so the composition of NJ's congressional delegation is not something I lose sleep over either way. I was setting out the reasons DSA types object to Gottheimer, and would object to him more than a congressman in a similar district with a similar voting record.

Fair enough, thanks for clarifying

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

About what I'd expect for Sanders. Hopefully Gottheimer takes the fight back to him.

[Roblox]

*snip* In addition, Gottheimer is significantly more confrontational towards the left than most Democrats in Republican seats *snip*

How so?  I've never heard this before, so I'm genuinely curious.  Would you mind giving a couple of examples?

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/03/07/opinions/why-as-members-of-congress-we-must-call-out-rep-omars-comments-schneider-luria-gottheimer/index.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_Solvers_Caucus

The first article is something X would agree with. The man's been very unapologetic about his views on Ilhan Omar.

As for my personal issues with Gottheimer, I've done some soul-searching and moved quite a bit on the issue. He's been hostile with The Squad, comparing them to the Tea Party. His ties to No Labels (not to mention the most incompetent strategist of the 21st century - yes, even worse than Mook!) are also bad, but those can be handwaved. NJ-5 is simply not a populist district.

What I can't excuse is his borderline neoconservative foreign policy views. And we aren't even talking about Israel here - the guy was one of six Democrats to vote against an amendment prohibiting unilateral strikes on Iran without Congressional approval, and has been a steadfast ally of Saudi Arabia's war against Yemen. IIRC he's also fairly conservative on immigration, whipping his caucus into supporting the Senate's compromise plan instead of the House plan.

After re-evaluating my views, I think Democrats can do better here (especially on immigration and fopo). I think he gets more attention from the left because he's simply a leader of the new centrist movement. He's more visible in Congressional politics than, say, Conor Lamb or pre-impeachment Jeff Van Drew. I'm very torn - I definitely think we can do better than Josh Gottheimer, but at the same time I wouldn't be heartbroken if Kreibich lost.

If Berniecrats want suburban votes in Democratic primaries (and there are plenty of progressive votes to be gotten in suburbia for folks willing to put in the work and do so in good-faith), they're gonna have to meet suburbanites halfway on policy, rhetorical style, and messaging (as well as, you know, not dissing us at every opportunity).  Otherwise, with all due respect, you guys are wasting your time.  

As a fellow suburbanite (I mean, Jacksonville is basically one big suburb) I in fact find it pretty funny when people make fun of suburbanites, especially douchey white ones, who can be some of the most awful human beings in the country. I take your point on electoral viability though.

[Abolish ICE]

*snip* In addition, Gottheimer is significantly more confrontational towards the left than most Democrats in Republican seats *snip*

How so?  I've never heard this before, so I'm genuinely curious.  Would you mind giving a couple of examples?

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/03/07/opinions/why-as-members-of-congress-we-must-call-out-rep-omars-comments-schneider-luria-gottheimer/index.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_Solvers_Caucus

The first article is something X would agree with. The man's been very unapologetic about his views on Ilhan Omar.

As for my personal issues with Gottheimer, I've done some soul-searching and moved quite a bit on the issue. He's been hostile with The Squad, comparing them to the Tea Party. His ties to No Labels (not to mention the most incompetent strategist of the 21st century - yes, even worse than Mook!) are also bad, but those can be handwaved. NJ-5 is simply not a populist district.

What I can't excuse is his borderline neoconservative foreign policy views. And we aren't even talking about Israel here - the guy was one of six Democrats to vote against an amendment prohibiting unilateral strikes on Iran without Congressional approval, and has been a steadfast ally of Saudi Arabia's war against Yemen. IIRC he's also fairly conservative on immigration, whipping his caucus into supporting the Senate's compromise plan instead of the House plan.

After re-evaluating my views, I think Democrats can do better here (especially on immigration and fopo). I think he gets more attention from the left because he's simply a leader of the new centrist movement. He's more visible in Congressional politics than, say, Conor Lamb or pre-impeachment Jeff Van Drew. I'm very torn - I definitely think we can do better than Josh Gottheimer, but at the same time I wouldn't be heartbroken if Kreibich lost.

If Berniecrats want suburban votes in Democratic primaries (and there are plenty of progressive votes to be gotten in suburbia for folks willing to put in the work and do so in good-faith), they're gonna have to meet suburbanites halfway on policy, rhetorical style, and messaging (as well as, you know, not dissing us at every opportunity).  Otherwise, with all due respect, you guys are wasting your time.  

As a fellow suburbanite (I mean, Jacksonville is basically one big suburb) I in fact find it pretty funny when people make fun of suburbanites, especially douchey white ones, who can be some of the most awful human beings in the country. I take your point on electoral viability though.

I mean, don’t get me wrong, suburbanites have as many a**holes as any other group

[VPH]

Gottheimer will win like 65% of the vote. He fits the district well, is incredibly smart, and operates a fundraising machine.