58% of Americans, 48% of Democrats, support using military force for the riots

[Libertas Vel Mors]

https://twitter.com/cameron_easley/status/1267830252652261383?ref_src=twsrc%5Etf...

[Grassroots]

Wow, a lot of fascists in America! 

[HisGrace]

Wasn't someone touting a junk poll on here a few days ago that said only 18% of Americans or something were opposed to the protests.

If white nationalists or Tea Party right wingers staged week long protests wherein 17 people died and mass arson took place in major cities all the people opposing it would want to invoke the Insurrection Act. Your ideology shouldn't have anything to do with the morality of your actions.

[Progressive Pessimist]

Well, thankfully Mark Esper disagrees and that matters significantly more. If you want to see these protests escalate into more riots again, this is a good way to do it. This would be treating American citizens as combatants just because a minority took advantage of others using their First Amendment right. Isn't that what the military is supposed to protect rather than impose upon?

I have absolutely no idea why so many people favor this. Maybe it has to do with the military still managing to maintain respect among the populace more than the police? Beats me. But all in all it's still just one poll.

It's quite amusing to me that lock-downs for the sake of public health and safety are a threat to our civil liberties, but this is perfectly fine to some of the same people though.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

The media has done an excellent job blurring the lines between the protestors and the rioters/looters who make up maybe 2% of the people marching out there.  I don't need a poll to know that the majority of Americans are bootlicking cucks who want Big Brother to take care of them.

[lfromnj]

Considering literally 0 governors including Brian Kemp and Greg Abbot and Mike Parson have requested said aid I don't think we need this.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Pic related:

[Progressive Pessimist]

Pic related:

I can't believe I'm saying this, but that might just be the best simplification of this whole situation that I have ever seen.

[Interlocutor is just not there yet]

Figures Sen. Meadows would be the one to start this thread

[PSOL]

Y’all don’t want to end up like Iran or Syria. Trust me on this.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

But 54% supported burning down that police precinct. What sort of person supports both of those?

[Libertas Vel Mors]

Pic related:

1. Systematic Racism -- more people have died in these "protests" than all the unarmed black men killed last year.

2. Police getting away with murder -- a real problem, but one that occurs only to a fraction of a fraction of the population anyway, generally targets those already involved in criminal activity, and which rioting does absolutely nothing for

3. Racially disproportionate prison population -- Black people commit a majority of the crimes in this country. It's not because they are black (crime is more correlated with poverty, of all races, than any other factor) but c'mon. If you commit the crime, serve the time. It's not like we just randomly select people off the street to imprison. This is one of my biggest problems with liberals -- from "income inequality" to the gender pay gap to prison populations, y'all have such a tendency to ignore the root causes of why a difference exists in favor of getting upset that people are held responsible for their actions.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

But 54% supported burning down that police precinct. What sort of person supports both of those?

That question asked:

"Given what happened, do you think the actions of the protestors were fully justified, partially justified, or not at all justified?..."

To which the responses were:

Fully justified -- 17%
Partially justified -- 37%
Not at all justified -- 38%
(VOL) Depends on which protests -- 4%
(VOL) Don’t know -- 1%
Not aware (from B7) -- 3%
(n)(759)

The "54%" number comes from entirely misleading reporting of the data.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

1. Systematic Racism -- more people have died in these "protests" than all the unarmed black men killed last year.

2. Police getting away with murder -- a real problem, but one that occurs only to a fraction of a fraction of the population anyway, generally targets those already involved in criminal activity, and which rioting does absolutely nothing for

3. Racially disproportionate prison population -- Black people commit a majority of the crimes in this country. It's not because they are black (crime is more correlated with poverty, of all races, than any other factor) but c'mon. If you commit the crime, serve the time. It's not like we just randomly select people off the street to imprison. This is one of my biggest problems with liberals -- from "income inequality" to the gender pay gap to prison populations, y'all have such a tendency to ignore the root causes of why a difference exists in favor of getting upset that people are held responsible for their actions.

Black Americans are two-and-a-half times as likely as white Americans to be killed by police officers.  And yes, the police do, in fact, select people off the street to pull over and eventually imprison or harm.  And it's not even random, because racial profiling is standard practice for these pigs and so is politicians deliberately sending them to patrol neighborhoods where most of the residents are nonwhite.  White and black people use drugs at roughly the same rate, and blacks are 2.6 times as likely to get arrested for it.  Black men serve longer prison sentences than whites for committing the same crimes.  And all of this doesn't even account for confrontations with the police that don't result in a person of color being arrested or killed.

If you seriously don't believe that systematic racism is endemic to policing in this country, you are either ignorant or severely naive.  Either way, accepting this as reality enables the problem.

[Koharu]

Gross. I'm not surprised, but still disappointed.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

1. Systematic Racism -- more people have died in these "protests" than all the unarmed black men killed last year.

2. Police getting away with murder -- a real problem, but one that occurs only to a fraction of a fraction of the population anyway, generally targets those already involved in criminal activity, and which rioting does absolutely nothing for

3. Racially disproportionate prison population -- Black people commit a majority of the crimes in this country. It's not because they are black (crime is more correlated with poverty, of all races, than any other factor) but c'mon. If you commit the crime, serve the time. It's not like we just randomly select people off the street to imprison. This is one of my biggest problems with liberals -- from "income inequality" to the gender pay gap to prison populations, y'all have such a tendency to ignore the root causes of why a difference exists in favor of getting upset that people are held responsible for their actions.

Black Americans are two-and-a-half times as likely as white Americans to be killed by police officers. 

You cannot simply out these numbers out in a vacuum. Yes, a higher rate of black Americans than white Americans die in killings by police officers, but when compared to the violent crime rate, those numbers are actually reversed -- 3 black Americans are killed per every 10,000 violent crimes committed by that subgroup, while 4 white Americans are.

1. Systematic Racism -- more people have died in these "protests" than all the unarmed black men killed last year.

2. Police getting away with murder -- a real problem, but one that occurs only to a fraction of a fraction of the population anyway, generally targets those already involved in criminal activity, and which rioting does absolutely nothing for

3. Racially disproportionate prison population -- Black people commit a majority of the crimes in this country. It's not because they are black (crime is more correlated with poverty, of all races, than any other factor) but c'mon. If you commit the crime, serve the time. It's not like we just randomly select people off the street to imprison. This is one of my biggest problems with liberals -- from "income inequality" to the gender pay gap to prison populations, y'all have such a tendency to ignore the root causes of why a difference exists in favor of getting upset that people are held responsible for their actions.

And yes, the police do, in fact, select people off the street to pull over and eventually imprison or harm.  And it's not even random, because racial profiling is standard practice for these pigs and so is politicians deliberately sending them to patrol neighborhoods where most of the residents are nonwhite. 

"Politicians send more police to high crime neighborhoods" does not mean that police are randomly selecting people off the street and locking them up for 30 years without a trial. That's not how that works. A crime must be proven, in a court of law, before a jury of one's peers, beyond a reasonable doubt. Even if the police wanted to do that, they simply couldn't -- they'd be forced under the law to release them if they didn't have evidence leading to conviction.

1. Systematic Racism -- more people have died in these "protests" than all the unarmed black men killed last year.

2. Police getting away with murder -- a real problem, but one that occurs only to a fraction of a fraction of the population anyway, generally targets those already involved in criminal activity, and which rioting does absolutely nothing for

3. Racially disproportionate prison population -- Black people commit a majority of the crimes in this country. It's not because they are black (crime is more correlated with poverty, of all races, than any other factor) but c'mon. If you commit the crime, serve the time. It's not like we just randomly select people off the street to imprison. This is one of my biggest problems with liberals -- from "income inequality" to the gender pay gap to prison populations, y'all have such a tendency to ignore the root causes of why a difference exists in favor of getting upset that people are held responsible for their actions.

White and black people use drugs at roughly the same rate, and blacks are 2.6 times as likely to get arrested for it. 

Now THIS is a better example (and part of why I do support ending the war on drugs) but even then, this simply does not indicate what you think it does. Let us start from a simple principle: If there are 32 murders in neighborhood 1, and 5 in in neighborhood 2, it makes sense to focus your law protection efforts in neighborhood 1. Now, let's also, for the sake of argument, assume that both neighborhoods use drugs at an equal amount, just like white and black people do. No matter how you spin it, having more police officers in a neighborhood will lead to more drug sightings/arrests/convictions. That does not mean that police officers are simply choosing to arrest black people who use drugs, but not white people -- it means that neighborhoods that have higher crime rates are more likely to be patrolled, higher rates of patrol means more drug arrests, and black neighborhoods have, on average, higher crime rates. It's rather simple to analyze actually.

[Roronoa D. Law]

I think most people in the poll are referring to the National Guard. Confidence in police is likely at an all-time low and others believe that many police officers are taking this situation as a personal attack. That's why I think many would prefer the national guard who has more frequent and higher quality training than the police. I don't think it means or gives Republicans the authority to bring out tanks and have M4s pointed at Americans

[Devout Centrist]

"Provide support" =/= "Kill looters on site"

[Libertas Vel Mors]

I think most people in the poll are referring to the National Guard. Confidence in police is likely at an all-time low and others believe that many police officers are taking this situation as a personal attack. That's why I think many would prefer the national guard who has more frequent and higher quality training than the police. I don't think it means or gives Republicans the authority to bring out tanks and have M4s pointed at Americans

Nope, the National Guard was asked separately and got even higher numbers.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

I think most people in the poll are referring to the National Guard. Confidence in police is likely at an all-time low and others believe that many police officers are taking this situation as a personal attack. That's why I think many would prefer the national guard who has more frequent and higher quality training than the police. I don't think it means or gives Republicans the authority to bring out tanks and have M4s pointed at Americans

Nope, the National Guard was asked separately and got even higher numbers.

https://twitter.com/cameron_easley/status/1267844621469650945?s=20

[Beet]

Sure, if there is uncontrolled looting and violence, then military forces are called in. This is nothing thing new, we've seen it before. But that doesn't mean they can do anything they want. They have to target looters and violent agitators only and must be marked and identified. The latter hasn't always been fulfilled.

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

I think most people in the poll are referring to the National Guard. Confidence in police is likely at an all-time low and others believe that many police officers are taking this situation as a personal attack. That's why I think many would prefer the national guard who has more frequent and higher quality training than the police. I don't think it means or gives Republicans the authority to bring out tanks and have M4s pointed at Americans

National guard was the question before in the poll and had enormous support. This was the lower polling option ("US military"), but it still managed a majority.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

Sure, if there is uncontrolled looting and violence, then military forces are called in. This is nothing thing new, we've seen it before. But that doesn't mean they can do anything they want. They have to target looters and violent agitators only and must be marked and identified. The latter hasn't always been fulfilled.

Of course, and entirely agreed! I think that all of us, even the President, could agree on that -- what we can't stomach is uninterrupted rioting, looting, and murdering.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

Well, thankfully Mark Esper disagrees and that matters significantly more. If you want to see these protests escalate into more riots again, this is a good way to do it. This would be treating American citizens as combatants just because a minority took advantage of others using their First Amendment right. Isn't that what the military is supposed to protect rather than impose upon?

I have absolutely no idea why so many people favor this. Maybe it has to do with the military still managing to maintain respect among the populace more than the police? Beats me. But all in all it's still just one poll.

It's quite amusing to me that lock-downs for the sake of public health and safety are a threat to our civil liberties, but this is perfectly fine to some of the same people though.

The opinion of a Secretary-Bureaucrat matters more than the will of the American people?

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

You cannot simply out these numbers out in a vacuum. Yes, a higher rate of black Americans than white Americans die in killings by police officers, but when compared to the violent crime rate, those numbers are actually reversed -- 3 black Americans are killed per every 10,000 violent crimes committed by that subgroup, while 4 white Americans are.

More white Americans are killed by police officers because, well, there's more of us.  The difference is the proportion.

"Politicians send more police to high crime neighborhoods" does not mean that police are randomly selecting people off the street and locking them up for 30 years without a trial. That's not how that works. A crime must be proven, in a court of law, before a jury of one's peers, beyond a reasonable doubt. Even if the police wanted to do that, they simply couldn't -- they'd be forced under the law to release them if they didn't have evidence leading to conviction.

When police decide to "randomly select" more members out of a certain group to pull over, then people in that group are more likely to have a negative confrontation and end up in prison.  The disparities in drug use versus sentencing illustrate this.  The fact that black men serve longer prison terms for the same crime as white men proves that this problem extends to the courts as well.

Now THIS is a better example (and part of why I do support ending the war on drugs) but even then, this simply does not indicate what you think it does. Let us start from a simple principle: If there are 32 murders in neighborhood 1, and 5 in in neighborhood 2, it makes sense to focus your law protection efforts in neighborhood 1. Now, let's also, for the sake of argument, assume that both neighborhoods use drugs at an equal amount, just like white and black people do. No matter how you spin it, having more police officers in a neighborhood will lead to more drug sightings/arrests/convictions. That does not mean that police officers are simply choosing to arrest black people who use drugs, but not white people -- it means that neighborhoods that have higher crime rates are more likely to be patrolled, higher rates of patrol means more drug arrests, and black neighborhoods have, on average, higher crime rates. It's rather simple to analyze actually.

That's the entire point: more police = more arrests.  But black people are more likely to be suspected of wrongdoing than white people, both by the police and by the local Karens who call the police every time they see a black man attempt to enter his house and assume he's committing a robbery.  Cops are far more likely to give white people the benefit of the doubt.  This is called racial profiling, and it is as much of a factor into the crime and imprisonment numbers as is the wealth gap, the income gap, the unemployment gap, and poverty.

It is also because of the wealth gap that white people are more able to afford adequate legal counsel instead of relying on overbooked public defenders who are more likely to fast-track their clients to the plea bargaining stage instead of proving their innocence.