Is Trump holding a Bible this election's Dukakis in a tank?

[BaldEagle1991]

Donald Trump is the president who paid hush money to the porn star he committed adultery with.

While I'm not sure what evangelicals actually believe in, I'm pretty certain that they're not really outraged by "sinful" or "sacrilegious" behaviour as long as it is committed by someone whose voter registration says "Republican".

Actual church attendance by Evangelicals has been going down for a while now. In much of the country it's as much a social--and, yes, political--identity as a religious one at this point.

Talk to college-educated Evangelicals, and Evangelicals without a college education, and you will hear two very different stories about Trump.

I know people in both camps.

I wouldn't be surprised if Biden tries exploits this schism.

[pbrower2a]

I don't know.  I think presidents need to be more open about their faith and actually attend church, but Trump did not go to the church to pray or make a statement calling for unity (as we're all God's children).  That was not the time for a political stunt, and I really don't like the Bible being used as one.

Donald Trump isn't much of a Christian. The first thing that anyone must say if one is a Christian is that we all fall short; we are all sinners. Jimmy Carter made a strong point in admitting that he had lust in his heart.

The standard in our society is that we not act upon our worst instincts and our most selfish and destructive desires. Thoughts not consummated are not the same as those consummated for better or worse. People are tried and convicted not for thinking about doing some horrific crime but instead for doing the crime.

Admit it: we have all had that voice in our head that tells us that one might be able to get away with an armed robbery, a rape, an insurance fraud, a drug deal, or even murder. Call that voice the Devil if you wish. Did you ever welcome it or did it commit a burglary of your soul?

The only pure people of which I have known of in the last eighty years ago are pure evil -- those scoundrels who delight in evil and are even proud of their wickedness (let us say serial-killer Alton Coleman), or of getting away with evil under some cover of respectability (the BTK killer)... and that is before I even discuss someone so monstrous as Oskar Dirlewanger who, aside from being a murderous Nazi was also a sexual pervert.

It's up to us to try to be good. Donald Trump has fallen short. He has underworld connections that good people do not want. He admitted to grabbing women by their "kitty-cats", which is sexual assault if there is no consent. He has wandered into female changing rooms. He has cheated on his wives, and I am sure that he has paid for abortions. If you think abortion tantamount to murder, then someone who hires a killer is as much a murderer as the thug who does the direct killing. Paying for an abortion for reasons other than the life and health of a female makes one culpable of an abortion.   
 

I can't vote for Biden because of abortion, but I'm starting to question whether I can vote for Trump again (that's not to say that I've come to the conclusion that I can't, because I still don't know).  I suspect that similar thoughts are going through the minds of a lot of Christians right now, especially those who only mildly supported Trump to begin with.

I don't like abortion. I don't like amputations and castrations, either, but sometimes those are necessary. It is best that men respect women enough to not get them pregnant unless they want some involvement with the child. This said, I would try to talk a woman out of an abortion if such were possible and not a matter of her life and health (including reproductive health). Ideally abortion is safe, legal, and rare. That is far better than risky, illicit, and commonplace.

Here is an excuse for rejecting Trump: he has called for law enforcement to investigate and harass people who demonstrate against him. To be sure, rioters and looters are fair game for law enforcement, and such people cannot fully trust peaceful protesters to not forward photographic images to the police or prosecutors. Break into a shop front and grab stuff, torch or otherwise damage a police car, or beat someone up and you are a criminal. What sort of government institution investigates and harasses people against them?

 




(Satan Hussein's dreaded secret police)



(Kenpeitai, secret police of the gangster regime of Japan of WWII)



(Chile under Pinochet)

......

Secret police are not gentlemen. They are killers. Trump called for what is basically a secret police.

[they don't love you like i love you]

A year later....was it?

[perpetual_cynic]

I don't know.  I think presidents need to be more open about their faith and actually attend church, but Trump did not go to the church to pray or make a statement calling for unity (as we're all God's children).  That was not the time for a political stunt, and I really don't like the Bible being used as one.

I can't vote for Biden because of abortion, but I'm starting to question whether I can vote for Trump again (that's not to say that I've come to the conclusion that I can't, because I still don't know).  I suspect that similar thoughts are going through the minds of a lot of Christians right now, especially those who only mildly supported Trump to begin with.

Just so you know, you’ve been used as a pawn by racist Republicans for years. Initially, Southern evangelical leaders did not care about abortion at all and even affirmed it repeatedly following Roe v. Wade. (Ironically, they saw it as a Catholic issue, and Biden is a Catholic.) It was only when they realized they needed an issue to exploit and rally their base around (now that open racism and segregation didn’t work) that they suddenly changed their tune. Now it’s the worst sin ever (even though it’s never clearly mentioned in the Bible) and mass infanticide!

https://www.npr.org/2019/06/20/734303135/throughline-traces-evangelicals-history-on-the-abortion-issue

If you really are a single-issue abortion voter, and are evangelical (I know you’re Southern), you’ve been played. There’s no getting around it. It’s just such a dumb thing anyway. Trump hasn’t outlawed abortion and he’s not going to. We know he approved of it in the past and probably has paid for a few; he’s using you too. Roberts probably isn’t gonna allow Roe v. Wade to be overturned. Biden, who supported the Hyde Amendment until recently and has always been a moderate on the issue, is not some radical pro-abortion activist who is gonna make abortions in this country skyrocket. Nothing will change dramatically regarding abortion if he wins. It’s a dead issue that is cynically used by Republicans as a political ploy to manipulate people.

Please understand what the president actually does and does not do. Voting solely based on his (public) views on abortion is ridiculous. There is an insane amount at stake here, including whether our democratic rule of law stands. You seemingly recognize this man is a charlatan who is no Christian or even a conservative. Why would you ever consciously vote for that? You may not agree with Biden on everything, but you can’t seriously tell me you don’t think he’s a more compassionate leader who’s more sincere about his faith (and everything) and who will respect this nation’s citizens and laws more. And that’s what really matters for a president.

The same argument could be made that Democrats have been using black voters since the Civil Rights movement as pawns. What's ironic is that the split for Civil Rights Legislation wasn't based on Democratic vs Republican, but geography (North vs South). As long as Big Joe keeps saying s**t like, "you ain't black if you're still deciding between me and Trump." Thats seems like a bit of a racist dog whistle myself, and probably is why Trump did slightly better with blacks.

[Motorcity]

No. The tank stunt cost Dukakis a lot of votes. The bible stunt did not change a single mind. In hindsight, it had no effect on the 2020 election

[Motorcity]

I don't know.  I think presidents need to be more open about their faith and actually attend church, but Trump did not go to the church to pray or make a statement calling for unity (as we're all God's children).  That was not the time for a political stunt, and I really don't like the Bible being used as one.

I can't vote for Biden because of abortion, but I'm starting to question whether I can vote for Trump again (that's not to say that I've come to the conclusion that I can't, because I still don't know).  I suspect that similar thoughts are going through the minds of a lot of Christians right now, especially those who only mildly supported Trump to begin with.

The irony is Biden is easily the most religious president since Carter. Other than Carter, the most religious since Coolidge. That is a 100 year time span!

Also, Biden is on record saying he is personally pro-life and would try to talk someone out of an abortion, but ultimatly its the woman's choice. Obama or Hillary would never say that. I don't think any mainstream Democrat would say that unless you were a southern governor like JBE

Trump on the other hand is a known adulter and paid hush money to a porn star. And has run casinos and lusted for his daughter. Even if you are willing to ignore his personal sins for the overall movment, no one can deny he has done great damage to the evangilical movment by turning off suburban women in Atlanta or Charlotte or Phonix or Dallas aka the Bible Belt

[they don't love you like i love you]

I don't know.  I think presidents need to be more open about their faith and actually attend church, but Trump did not go to the church to pray or make a statement calling for unity (as we're all God's children).  That was not the time for a political stunt, and I really don't like the Bible being used as one.

I can't vote for Biden because of abortion, but I'm starting to question whether I can vote for Trump again (that's not to say that I've come to the conclusion that I can't, because I still don't know).  I suspect that similar thoughts are going through the minds of a lot of Christians right now, especially those who only mildly supported Trump to begin with.

The irony is Biden is easily the most religious president since Carter. Other than Carter, the most religious since Coolidge. That is a 100 year time span!

Also, Biden is on record saying he is personally pro-life and would try to talk someone out of an abortion, but ultimatly its the woman's choice. Obama or Hillary would never say that. I don't think any mainstream Democrat would say that unless you were a southern governor like JBE

Trump on the other hand is a known adulter and paid hush money to a porn star. And has run casinos and lusted for his daughter. Even if you are willing to ignore his personal sins for the overall movment, no one can deny he has done great damage to the evangilical movment by turning off suburban women in Atlanta or Charlotte or Phonix or Dallas aka the Bible Belt

And the Republicans haven't nominated a Christian since 2008. Meanwhile all Democratic candidates in that time frame are quite outspokenly Christian.

[Motorcity]

I don't know.  I think presidents need to be more open about their faith and actually attend church, but Trump did not go to the church to pray or make a statement calling for unity (as we're all God's children).  That was not the time for a political stunt, and I really don't like the Bible being used as one.

I can't vote for Biden because of abortion, but I'm starting to question whether I can vote for Trump again (that's not to say that I've come to the conclusion that I can't, because I still don't know).  I suspect that similar thoughts are going through the minds of a lot of Christians right now, especially those who only mildly supported Trump to begin with.

The irony is Biden is easily the most religious president since Carter. Other than Carter, the most religious since Coolidge. That is a 100 year time span!

Also, Biden is on record saying he is personally pro-life and would try to talk someone out of an abortion, but ultimatly its the woman's choice. Obama or Hillary would never say that. I don't think any mainstream Democrat would say that unless you were a southern governor like JBE

Trump on the other hand is a known adulter and paid hush money to a porn star. And has run casinos and lusted for his daughter. Even if you are willing to ignore his personal sins for the overall movment, no one can deny he has done great damage to the evangilical movment by turning off suburban women in Atlanta or Charlotte or Phonix or Dallas aka the Bible Belt

And the Republicans haven't nominated a Christian since 2008. Meanwhile all Democratic candidates in that time frame are quite outspokenly Christian.

Its debatable

McCain said he was a baptist but most people who knew him would call him non-religious.

Romney was a devout morman and called himself a christen. I guess most people consider mormans christan but some don't

[they don't love you like i love you]

I don't know.  I think presidents need to be more open about their faith and actually attend church, but Trump did not go to the church to pray or make a statement calling for unity (as we're all God's children).  That was not the time for a political stunt, and I really don't like the Bible being used as one.

I can't vote for Biden because of abortion, but I'm starting to question whether I can vote for Trump again (that's not to say that I've come to the conclusion that I can't, because I still don't know).  I suspect that similar thoughts are going through the minds of a lot of Christians right now, especially those who only mildly supported Trump to begin with.

The irony is Biden is easily the most religious president since Carter. Other than Carter, the most religious since Coolidge. That is a 100 year time span!

Also, Biden is on record saying he is personally pro-life and would try to talk someone out of an abortion, but ultimatly its the woman's choice. Obama or Hillary would never say that. I don't think any mainstream Democrat would say that unless you were a southern governor like JBE

Trump on the other hand is a known adulter and paid hush money to a porn star. And has run casinos and lusted for his daughter. Even if you are willing to ignore his personal sins for the overall movment, no one can deny he has done great damage to the evangilical movment by turning off suburban women in Atlanta or Charlotte or Phonix or Dallas aka the Bible Belt

And the Republicans haven't nominated a Christian since 2008. Meanwhile all Democratic candidates in that time frame are quite outspokenly Christian.

Its debatable

McCain said he was a baptist but most people who knew him would call him non-religious.

Romney was a devout morman and called himself a christen. I guess most people consider mormans christan but some don't

McCain was Episcopalian but attended his wife's Baptist church. He wasn't very vocally religious but was still Christian. Romney isn't because Mormons aren't Christians and Trump didn't even need an explanation.

[Interlocutor is just not there yet]

I'm really curious what the results looked like before this thread was bumped. I seem to remember this being a landslide for Yes