Minneapolis cops slowly murder handcuffed man in front of crowd

[It’s so Joever]

More black people have been murdered in the riots than what started the protests in the first place. I thought black lives matter?

23,000 black lives were lost from Covid-19, and now these protestors are gathering in large groups and screaming while literally so close they touch eachother.
It’s pretty obvious that BLM isn’t thinking this idea through. Unfortunately, it will be too late once they realize their mistake and we all will suffer because of it.

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

This moves prosecution from unjust to downright evil. Anyone who supports this prosecution deserves misery for the rest of their lives.

https://twitter.com/JanelKlein/status/1268648205362909186?s=20

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Not only are those Minneapolis cops who killed George Floyd facing charges -they may be facing being infected with the coronavirus as well:

George Floyd had tested positive for COVID-19 before his death, full autopsy reveals

Floyd's family gave the Hennepin County Medical Examiner's Office permission to release the full 20-page report

In April. So he was already fully recovered.

[Beet]

More black people have been murdered in the riots than what started the protests in the first place. I thought black lives matter?

23,000 black lives were lost from Covid-19, and now these protestors are gathering in large groups and screaming while literally so close they touch eachother.
It’s pretty obvious that BLM isn’t thinking this idea through. Unfortunately, it will be too late once they realize their mistake and we all will suffer because of it.

Yeah I mean black people are already twice as likely to die from Covid-19, likely due to a combination of socioeconomic related factors. How is that not systemic racism? And encouraging these protests is just going to make it worse. But I guess there's not an obvious police villain so no one cares.

[TiltsAreUnderrated]

Not only are those Minneapolis cops who killed George Floyd facing charges -they may be facing being infected with the coronavirus as well:

George Floyd had tested positive for COVID-19 before his death, full autopsy reveals

Floyd's family gave the Hennepin County Medical Examiner's Office permission to release the full 20-page report

In April. So he was already fully recovered.

Isn’t it mildly alarming he remained positive for that long? It looks like a bad omen for the supposed effectiveness of current 2 to 3 week self-isolation strategies.

[YPestis25]

Not only are those Minneapolis cops who killed George Floyd facing charges -they may be facing being infected with the coronavirus as well:

George Floyd had tested positive for COVID-19 before his death, full autopsy reveals

Floyd's family gave the Hennepin County Medical Examiner's Office permission to release the full 20-page report

In April. So he was already fully recovered.

Isn’t it mildly alarming he remained positive for that long? It looks like a bad omen for the supposed effectiveness of current 2 to 3 week self-isolation strategies.

Not quite. Dead viruses in your system can still lead to a positive test, despite no longer being contagious.

[Intell]

https://twitter.com/markos/status/1268176215350759424

[jimrtex]

Before we continue this back and forth, jimrtex, let me ask: in your opinion, was there wrongdoing on the part of Officer Chauvin?

What do you mean by wrongdoing?

Is that the same as doing the wrong thing?

Were his actions those of malfeasance or misfeasance?

Was their wrongdoing on the part of Officer Lane?

Was their wrongdoing on the part of Officer Kueng?

Was their wrongdoing on the part of Officer Thao?

According to the indictment Officer Lane asked Floyd whether he was "on anything"? It is unknown whether Floyd responded.

When Justine Damond was shot and killed by a Minneapolis Police officer in 2017, was it because she was black?

What an utterly obtuse response. It was a simple question, it didn’t require a ponderous line of branching inquiries capped by a non-sequitur.

Wrongdoing means illegal or dishonest behavior

You can do something wrong, but it not be illegal or dishonest.

I was simply asking for clarification of what PKG was asking.

You launched off into a line of tangential questions that weren't necessary for stating your position clearly. She didn't ask you about what you thought about the other officers' culpability or about another unrelated police shooting case involving a black victim, she asked you whether you think Derek Chauvin is responsible for wrongdoing. You also could have just freely given your opinion on whether you thought it was malfeasance or misfeasance, or whether it was wrong, illegal, dishonest, or any combination of the three, or none. PGQ isn't a lawyer or judge, she probably wasn't even thinking about the legalese aspect when she asked her question.

She asked a question that included a word which typically has a certain connotation.

I know that she is neither a lawyer or judge, but I suspect that she does understand what I was asking.

Fair enough, jimrtex! So let me ask in a more specific way: do you believe that it is appropriate for Chauvin to be charged with homicide?

I'm not trying to needle you or ask you loaded questions. Yours is simply a perspective that isn't being expressed all that frequently.  

We will eventually see the videos of when Floyd was resisting being placed in the squad, and placed in the squad car. There has been a video showing both rear doors open and officers reaching in from both sides, but not showing Floyd, which apparently led to Floyd being removed and placed on the ground and restrained.

It is unknown what some of the body cams will show, because they will be at a close distance and likely jerking around.

So Officer Chauvin may not have recognized that it was fentanyl intoxication rather than alcohol intoxication. I don't know whether you would use different restraint techniques. I assume placing someone on their back might result in more pressure on the chest, greater risk of breaking ribs, more pressure on the throat. Placing someone on their side would be more unstable as they could roll easier.

Was Chauvin trained to use a knee on the shoulder rather than the neck? Or was he trained to use as shoulder on the neck?

Was more force used because Floyd was black? Certainly more force was used because he was male and 6'4" and what he was wearing. Being black may have enhanced the perceived threat.

I think that the charges against the other officers are bogus. Officer Thao was protecting the other officers from possible attack. Officers Lane and Kueng were on the back and legs, knees. All three face a 40-year sentence for aiding and abetting an assault that led to death. They might not even be assaulting but merely:

have "intentionally aided, advised, hired, counseled, or conspired with or otherwise procured another to commit a felony offense [of] assault in the third degree".

Unless we want to assume some grand conspiracy, "advised, hired, counseled, or conspired with or otherwise procured another" are out. It was not a professional hit on Floyd with Chauvin set up as the patsy (to my belief which tend to discount conspiracies).

So you get a jury to be convinced that it was an assault in the third degree (inflicts substantial bodily harm). Then you get them to decide that the defendant intentionally (1) held the knees; (2) held the back; or (3) prevented bystanders from stopping the assault. You get a guilty verdict, and sentence them to up to 40 years.

If you thought they were participating in an assault you would have charged them with assault.

So you run three separate trials, honing your arguments, or you get a plea bargain for aiding and abetting second degree manslaughter (not more than 10 years; and get a minimal sentence perhaps for time served assuming the trial is not for a couple of years).

The newest charges against Chauvin omit that Floyd was saying that he could not breathe while standing up, but note that Floyd said "thank you man" when he was arrested.

The autopsy now has the toxicity report. I don't know how to interpret the fentanyl and amphetamine amounts. Presumably fentanyl decays fairly quickly. If you administered a dose to last all day it would kill you, so you have to continually use small amounts?

Floyd was also tested positive for Covid-19. The autopsy said that he had previously tested positive on April 4 - but the virus can be detected by a nose swab even this much later. That was fairly early, particularly since Minnesota has not been hard hit as places like Chicago or Detroit. So was he symptomatic, or tested because of an outbreak at the night club where he was a bouncer.

Would you be prescribed Opioids if you were feeling chest pain, or would that further suppress breathing?

Sorry about asking about Justine Damond. That was a trick question. She was a white woman who was shot by a Somali-American Minneapolis cop. She had called 911 reporting that she had heard a woman being raped or having loud sex. The police did not find anyone, and were slowly driving down an alley with lights out. Damond approached and was shot outside an open window by the surprised officer.

[SteveRogers]

Before we continue this back and forth, jimrtex, let me ask: in your opinion, was there wrongdoing on the part of Officer Chauvin?

What do you mean by wrongdoing?

Is that the same as doing the wrong thing?

Were his actions those of malfeasance or misfeasance?

Was their wrongdoing on the part of Officer Lane?

Was their wrongdoing on the part of Officer Kueng?

Was their wrongdoing on the part of Officer Thao?

According to the indictment Officer Lane asked Floyd whether he was "on anything"? It is unknown whether Floyd responded.

When Justine Damond was shot and killed by a Minneapolis Police officer in 2017, was it because she was black?

What an utterly obtuse response. It was a simple question, it didn’t require a ponderous line of branching inquiries capped by a non-sequitur.

Wrongdoing means illegal or dishonest behavior

You can do something wrong, but it not be illegal or dishonest.

I was simply asking for clarification of what PKG was asking.

You launched off into a line of tangential questions that weren't necessary for stating your position clearly. She didn't ask you about what you thought about the other officers' culpability or about another unrelated police shooting case involving a black victim, she asked you whether you think Derek Chauvin is responsible for wrongdoing. You also could have just freely given your opinion on whether you thought it was malfeasance or misfeasance, or whether it was wrong, illegal, dishonest, or any combination of the three, or none. PGQ isn't a lawyer or judge, she probably wasn't even thinking about the legalese aspect when she asked her question.

She asked a question that included a word which typically has a certain connotation.

I know that she is neither a lawyer or judge, but I suspect that she does understand what I was asking.

Fair enough, jimrtex! So let me ask in a more specific way: do you believe that it is appropriate for Chauvin to be charged with homicide?

I'm not trying to needle you or ask you loaded questions. Yours is simply a perspective that isn't being expressed all that frequently.  

We will eventually see the videos of when Floyd was resisting being placed in the squad, and placed in the squad car. There has been a video showing both rear doors open and officers reaching in from both sides, but not showing Floyd, which apparently led to Floyd being removed and placed on the ground and restrained.

It is unknown what some of the body cams will show, because they will be at a close distance and likely jerking around.

So Officer Chauvin may not have recognized that it was fentanyl intoxication rather than alcohol intoxication. I don't know whether you would use different restraint techniques. I assume placing someone on their back might result in more pressure on the chest, greater risk of breaking ribs, more pressure on the throat. Placing someone on their side would be more unstable as they could roll easier.

Was Chauvin trained to use a knee on the shoulder rather than the neck? Or was he trained to use as shoulder on the neck?

Was more force used because Floyd was black? Certainly more force was used because he was male and 6'4" and what he was wearing. Being black may have enhanced the perceived threat.

I think that the charges against the other officers are bogus. Officer Thao was protecting the other officers from possible attack. Officers Lane and Kueng were on the back and legs, knees. All three face a 40-year sentence for aiding and abetting an assault that led to death. They might not even be assaulting but merely:

have "intentionally aided, advised, hired, counseled, or conspired with or otherwise procured another to commit a felony offense [of] assault in the third degree".

Unless we want to assume some grand conspiracy, "advised, hired, counseled, or conspired with or otherwise procured another" are out. It was not a professional hit on Floyd with Chauvin set up as the patsy (to my belief which tend to discount conspiracies).

So you get a jury to be convinced that it was an assault in the third degree (inflicts substantial bodily harm). Then you get them to decide that the defendant intentionally (1) held the knees; (2) held the back; or (3) prevented bystanders from stopping the assault. You get a guilty verdict, and sentence them to up to 40 years.

If you thought they were participating in an assault you would have charged them with assault.

So you run three separate trials, honing your arguments, or you get a plea bargain for aiding and abetting second degree manslaughter (not more than 10 years; and get a minimal sentence perhaps for time served assuming the trial is not for a couple of years).

The newest charges against Chauvin omit that Floyd was saying that he could not breathe while standing up, but note that Floyd said "thank you man" when he was arrested.

The autopsy now has the toxicity report. I don't know how to interpret the fentanyl and amphetamine amounts. Presumably fentanyl decays fairly quickly. If you administered a dose to last all day it would kill you, so you have to continually use small amounts?

Floyd was also tested positive for Covid-19. The autopsy said that he had previously tested positive on April 4 - but the virus can be detected by a nose swab even this much later. That was fairly early, particularly since Minnesota has not been hard hit as places like Chicago or Detroit. So was he symptomatic, or tested because of an outbreak at the night club where he was a bouncer.

Would you be prescribed Opioids if you were feeling chest pain, or would that further suppress breathing?

Sorry about asking about Justine Damond. That was a trick question. She was a white woman who was shot by a Somali-American Minneapolis cop. She had called 911 reporting that she had heard a woman being raped or having loud sex. The police did not find anyone, and were slowly driving down an alley with lights out. Damond approached and was shot outside an open window by the surprised officer.

Your entire wall of text ignores the fact that Chauvin kept his knee on Floyd’s neck AFTER he had stopped moving. Regardless of what Chauvin’s intent was before that or any preexisting conditions Floyd might have had, at that point Chauvin knew or should have known that he was contributing to Floyd’s death.

[Nyvin]

https://twitter.com/Phil_Lewis_/status/1268727350549794816

[jimrtex]

Your entire wall of text ignores the fact that Chauvin kept his knee on Floyd’s neck AFTER he had stopped moving. Regardless of what Chauvin’s intent was before that or any preexisting conditions Floyd might have had, at that point Chauvin knew or should have known that he was contributing to Floyd’s death.

Who summoned the ambulance?

[T'Chenka]

Your entire wall of text ignores the fact that Chauvin kept his knee on Floyd’s neck AFTER he had stopped moving. Regardless of what Chauvin’s intent was before that or any preexisting conditions Floyd might have had, at that point Chauvin knew or should have known that he was contributing to Floyd’s death.

Who summoned the ambulance?

LOL. I can't with you, Jim. S-M-effing-H.

[emailking]

This moves prosecution from unjust to downright evil. Anyone who supports this prosecution deserves misery for the rest of their lives.

Well they won't. There's no mechanism I can think of to effect that. Guilt if they realize later that he's innocent? As I said yesterday, let's wait for the trial. Maybe you're right and the case against him could even be dropped before then. Or maybe it's a slam dunk for the prosecution. None of us knows all of the evidence.

[Koharu]

If someone standing up is saying they're having trouble breathing, you get them medical attention. Even if you think it's an excuse, even if you think they're full of poop, you get them help. You certainly don't throw them on the ground and you definitely don't put your knee on their throat and keep it there for nine minutes while they continue to tell you they can't breathe.

There is no acceptable excuse for this behavior. Even if Mr. Floyd's blood stream was completely replaced with intoxicant of whatever sort. Even if he just murdered someone. There is no excuse whatsoever. Even if the technical cause of Mr. Floyd's death was a heart attack, a stroke, overdose, or anything else, that officer is complicit in his death. He chose to ignore Mr Floyd begging for help and kept him from gaining access to medical help.

As for the acceptability of the restraint:

But “no police academy that we know of teaches a police officer to use their knee, to put it on their neck,” said Chuck Wexler, executive director of the Police Executive Research Forum, which researches and advises on police practices. “That’s just not taught because that can impact their breathing and their carotid artery [a crucial vessel that supplies blood to the brain]. So when police look at that video, they are shocked that those tactics were used.”

What's more, officers are taught to get a suspect up from the ground as soon as possible, either sitting or standing, since lying on one's stomach can cause breathing problems, especially for larger people.

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/05/28/police-experts-condemn-restraint-used-on-floyd

Don't try to defend the actions of these former officers. Their behavior got them fired nearly immediately.

[jimrtex]

Your entire wall of text ignores the fact that Chauvin kept his knee on Floyd’s neck AFTER he had stopped moving. Regardless of what Chauvin’s intent was before that or any preexisting conditions Floyd might have had, at that point Chauvin knew or should have known that he was contributing to Floyd’s death.

Who summoned the ambulance?

LOL. I can't with you, Jim. S-M-effing-H.

The Park Police officer told Floyd's two passengers that the other officers would be getting their "buddy" an ambulance.

[AtorBoltox]

jimrtex will never condemn anything police do if not even this is objectionable in his view

[Badger]

A shockingly stupid thing to say:

https://twitter.com/elwasson/status/1268918924051132416?s=20

Access to tweet appears to have been removed. Who posted it and what did they say?

[lfromnj]

It tried to say that George was looking happily down at the unemployment numbers when Trump didnt even mention the word jobs in that space of a minute, he was just rambling about some other stuff.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

https://twitter.com/TooMuchMe/status/1268986246338134016?s=19

[Progressive Pessimist]

https://twitter.com/TooMuchMe/status/1268986246338134016?s=19

This is getting far too predictable.

[tmthforu94]

A shockingly stupid thing to say:

https://twitter.com/elwasson/status/1268918924051132416?s=20

Access to tweet appears to have been removed. Who posted it and what did they say?

Erik Wasson: “Trump says that he hopes George Floyd is looking down from heaven and happy about the strong jobs numbers.”

I took down the post as it has proven to be untrue.

[Blue3]

About 10,000 protesters marched in Providence, Rhode Island today (organized by high-schoolers).

[Person Man]

https://twitter.com/TooMuchMe/status/1268986246338134016?s=19

Seriously! They're not even people!

[Badger]

https://twitter.com/TooMuchMe/status/1268986246338134016?s=19

Seriously! They're not even people!

Florida requires 180-day residency for tax purposes I know because my parents Works boring that. I don't know what it requires for voting, though.

EDIT: Looked it and it's rather loosey-goosey. Nevertheless, I would be hard-pressed are the criteria I looked up to ever consider Chauvin to be a Florida resident if he was working full-time for MPD. And paying taxes in Minnesota. Whether the prosecution will pick it up is a sorely different matter

[Koharu]

I'm suspicious of the Florida voting thing. There could be another Derek Chauvin who lives in Florida and this would be a valid voter.