World elections since 1900 every 4 years: Who would you vote for to be international president? (user search)
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  World elections since 1900 every 4 years: Who would you vote for to be international president? (search mode)
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Author Topic: World elections since 1900 every 4 years: Who would you vote for to be international president?  (Read 1352 times)
Kingpoleon
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Posts: 22,144
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« on: May 26, 2020, 10:39:16 PM »

Apologism for Chavez and his thugs is not acceptable. This man murdered hundreds, imprisoned hundreds of thousands of opposition politicians and voters, slaughtered journalists and priests, rigged elections, and got in bed with the most corrupt politicians and vilest cartels in Venezuela. Very nasty man. He makes Vladimir Putin look like an angel by comparison.
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Kingpoleon
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Posts: 22,144
United States


« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2020, 11:29:16 PM »
« Edited: May 26, 2020, 11:39:39 PM by Kingpoleon »

I will defend Chavez' good intentions economically until the day I die. The party system prior to 1999 was rotten to the very core (comparable to Mexico under the PRI) and Venezuela needed a change in scenery. Chavez also ushered in much-enhanced welfare for the poor people of the country and he also recognized the role the US had in harming the country, though his way of proceeding in the aftermath was not infallible and reasonable people can disagree on the merits of how he approached the United States.

I would also say that a lot of the hatred of Chavez was nursed from elite elements who simply did not care for the poor people of Venezuela and had sour grapes because Chavez wanted to solve the economic inequality of the country by levying more taxation. They no longer had control over the government and Caracas was no longer firmly in their pocket. So they left. It is hard for me to feel much sympathy for these people since their elitist intentions are plainly out there for the world to see. The hardship they were being subjected to was...gasp...being asked to pay their fair share to help the country's poor.

Elitism is a long-running curse in Latin American society. And if it gets any worse - yes it does. Dark-skinned Venezuelans were firm Chavismo because of the nature of his opposition and of his program, which sought to better their situation. You thought racism wasn't as much of a thing in Venezuela? Ha, good one. Latin American race relations are just as messed up as America, just in different ways. Specifically, the rich and wealthy (read: a group disproportionately pale compared to the wider population) look down on those who are darker-skinned, despite an increased amount of inter-racial marriage in Latin America. Sad but true.

Given all this it's hard for me to really see Chavez as a bad guy. Maduro on the other hand had relatively few of Chavez' good elements and many more flaws. People fleeing Chavez b/c he wanted to increase taxes were at least mostly not refugees while those who fled after the stuff hit the fan in 2014 have an unchallengeable claim.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Chávez

1. Murder rates skyrocketed so badly that he banned his government from releasing statistics.
2. He suppressed the press.
3. He arrested and exiled political opponents.
4. He pardoned many corrupt officials and ordered his government not to investigate corrupt people if they were loyal to him.
5. He pushed 9/11 conspiracy theories.
6. He literally gave out money at polling stations.

These are not the actions of a good man or an intelligent man. I can’t believe you’re defending Hugo Chavez, one of the worst world leaders of the millennium.

When you read all these pro-Chávez things online, they come from Maduro. Maduro was the only competent man in Chávez’s inner circle. With the possible exception of Evil Villain Tareck El Aissami, the rest of Chávez’s inner circle was dangerously incompetent. If one of those like Alí Rodríguez Araque, Elias Jaua, Diosdado Cabello, or Adán Chávez, they would probably be dead by now.
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Kingpoleon
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Posts: 22,144
United States


« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2020, 05:06:03 PM »

If you really think Hugo Chavez was better than Jean Chretien, Paul Martin, Gerhard Schröder, Lula de Silva, or Manmohan Singh, I don’t know what to say.

Bill Clinton, George W. Bush, Tony Blair, Gordon Brown, and all the others I don’t really understand, but if you want to be anti-globalization or anti-The Big Five, there are still much better leaders than Chávez to turn to.
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