Labor blocks tax cuts for Atlasian small businesses

[OSR stands with Israel]

https://talkelections.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=372332.50


This is an utter disgrace and they deserve to be voted out for this

[S019]

This is the opposite it was a tax cut for large businesses at the expense of middle class/upper middle class families in high tax areas such as NY, NJ, and CA.

[Sestak]

Glorious news!

[OSR stands with Israel]

This is the opposite it was a tax cut for large businesses at the expense of middle class/upper middle class families in high tax areas such as NY, NJ, and CA.

Corporations were exempt from this bill

[S019]

This is the opposite it was a tax cut for large businesses at the expense of middle class/upper middle class families in high tax areas such as NY, NJ, and CA.

Corporations were exempt from this bill

Most of these tax cuts went to business making around 200k-300k, that's not exactly a small business. Also businesses making over 500k saw a nearly 10% decrease in the tax rate

[OBD]

While I support giving small businesses a tax cut, I didn't favor the brackets proposed under this bill. If support is present, I intend to propose a similar bill in Parliament with brackets more favorable for the lower-income businesses that need it the most, as well as a cut for the essential businesses and workers that are getting us through this pandemic.

[RC (a la Frémont)]

This is the opposite it was a tax cut for large businesses at the expense of middle class/upper middle class families in high tax areas such as NY, NJ, and CA.

Corporations were exempt from this bill

Most of these tax cuts went to business making around 200k-300k, that's not exactly a small business. Also businesses making over 500k saw a nearly 10% decrease in the tax rate

Question, did you read the bill? Cuz the brackets literally created cuts for a new bracket lower than $13k and rose taxes for those making $1M+. It was far from a conservative and big-business defending bill.

[thumb21]

If you read the debate on the bill, I was supportive of small business tax cuts. I just don't think people making $300,000 need a tax cut.

I put forward an amendment in order to try and get a bill where there'd be common ground and which would pass, it was you who rejected that.

Well, you got your little soundbite. Good job.

I'm always supportive of tax cuts for working class people, very much including those who run small businesses but I don't think we should be cutting taxes for people who already have a lot of money.

I have an amendment. It uses the same brackets as the current income tax which makes comparison a little bit easier.

A HOUSE BILL
To reduce Taxation on Small Buisnesses
Be it enacted in both Houses

Section I: Title

- This bill shall be called the Small Business Tax Cut Act

Section II: Tax Cut

- Small Businesses who currently pay taxes at the income level will pay taxes at these new rates

0-13k: 5%
13k-50k: 7%
50k-125k : 15%
125k-250k : 20%
250k-500k : 25%
500k-1mil : 34%
1mil + :  39%

0-13K      4%
13K-50k    9%
50K-130K   21%
130K-210K  28%
210K-413K  34%
413K-441K  36%
441K+      40.6%

- Small Businesses who currently pay taxes at the corporate level will continue to pay taxes at the corporate level

Section III: Removal of Deductions and Loopholes

- The Carried Interest Loophole will be eliminated by taxing carried interest as ordinary income rather than as capital gains.
- The State and Local Tax Deduction will be capped at $30,000
- The New Mortgage Deduction cap will be $750,000

Compared to the current tax rates it makes these changes:

0-13K      7% --> 4%
13K-50k    12% --> 9%
50K-130K   23% --> 21%
130K-210K  29% --> 28%
With the rest of the brackets, no change.

[S019]

This is the opposite it was a tax cut for large businesses at the expense of middle class/upper middle class families in high tax areas such as NY, NJ, and CA.

Corporations were exempt from this bill

Most of these tax cuts went to business making around 200k-300k, that's not exactly a small business. Also businesses making over 500k saw a nearly 10% decrease in the tax rate

Question, did you read the bill? Cuz the brackets literally created cuts for a new bracket lower than $13k and rose taxes for those making $1M+. It was far from a conservative and big-business defending bill.

current rates:
210K-413K  34%
413K-441K  36%
441K+      40.6%


bill rates:

50k-500k : 25%
500k-1mil : 34%
1mil + :  39%

but sure this totally isn't a massive cut for business making between 400k and 1 million

[thumb21]

I'd also point out that the stimulus bill cut taxes significantly. Your argument that Labor and Peace members of congress don't want to cut taxes for people is simply wrong. Tax cuts for the higher brackets was always the area of contention, and if I was someone to grandstand I'd start a similar thread condemning right wing members for their support for tax cuts for the rich. This is an extremely dishonest and unproductive way of doing politics.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Like i said 500k for businesses isn’t exactly they same like someone making 500k in personal income even though it is treated like that now which is the exact problem I’m trying to fix . Businesses should pay less taxes then the individual for the same income level

[PSOL]

I applause the national congressional representatives for voting down this awful attempt at austerity during a pandemic. The bill was awful.

[lfromnj]

Do people actually think a 300k buisness is extremely rich?

[S019]

Do people actually think a 300k buisness is extremely rich?

doesn't fix the fact that business making 800k and 900k were also getting tax cuts

[OSR stands with Israel]

This is the opposite it was a tax cut for large businesses at the expense of middle class/upper middle class families in high tax areas such as NY, NJ, and CA.

Corporations were exempt from this bill

Most of these tax cuts went to business making around 200k-300k, that's not exactly a small business. Also businesses making over 500k saw a nearly 10% decrease in the tax rate

Question, did you read the bill? Cuz the brackets literally created cuts for a new bracket lower than $13k and rose taxes for those making $1M+. It was far from a conservative and big-business defending bill.

current rates:
210K-413K  34%
413K-441K  36%
441K+      40.6%


bill rates:

50k-500k : 25%
500k-1mil : 34%
1mil + :  39%

but sure this totally isn't a massive cut for business making between 400k and 1 million

For business  making over 500k it’s not that large of a tax cut at all

[S019]

This is the opposite it was a tax cut for large businesses at the expense of middle class/upper middle class families in high tax areas such as NY, NJ, and CA.

Corporations were exempt from this bill

Most of these tax cuts went to business making around 200k-300k, that's not exactly a small business. Also businesses making over 500k saw a nearly 10% decrease in the tax rate

Question, did you read the bill? Cuz the brackets literally created cuts for a new bracket lower than $13k and rose taxes for those making $1M+. It was far from a conservative and big-business defending bill.

current rates:
210K-413K  34%
413K-441K  36%
441K+      40.6%


bill rates:

50k-500k : 25%
500k-1mil : 34%
1mil + :  39%

but sure this totally isn't a massive cut for business making between 400k and 1 million

For business  making over 500k it’s not that large of a tax cut at all

6% is surely a decent tax cut, only business making over $1 million did not get a sizable tax cut

[At-Large Senator LouisvilleThunder]

This is the opposite it was a tax cut for large businesses at the expense of middle class/upper middle class families in high tax areas such as NY, NJ, and CA.

The small businesses that would've recieved tax cuts in OSR's bill actually contribute far more to the economy and to communities all across Atlasia than you and your family.

I'd also point out that the stimulus bill cut taxes significantly. Your argument that Labor and Peace members of congress don't want to cut taxes for people is simply wrong. Tax cuts for the higher brackets was always the area of contention, and if I was someone to grandstand I'd start a similar thread condemning right wing members for their support for tax cuts for the rich. This is an extremely dishonest and unproductive way of doing politics.

I know you don't like it when your actions get fairly criticized, but how is having a legitimate discussion on ideological policy in a politics and government simulator any more dishonest and unproductive than you and your party wielding and maintaining power in near total secrecy through discord?

I applause the national congressional representatives for voting down this awful attempt at austerity during a pandemic. The bill was awful.

Cutting taxes is by definition expansionary fiscal policy which is not austerity.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Do people actually think a 300k buisness is extremely rich?

doesn't fix the fact that business making 800k and 900k were also getting tax cuts

The amendment Labor introduced barely cut taxes for businesses making between 50k-210k and from 210k didnt cut taxes at all.


It was a terrible amendment that deserved to be voted down .



If Labor actually felt the problem was the tax cut businesses making between 500k-1m was making the could have made the 500k-1m group also pay 39% through an amendment and I would have voted for it .

[thumb21]

Do people actually think a 300k buisness is extremely rich?

No, but that doesn't nessessarily mean they need a tax cut, or to phrase it better, need a tax cut over many people making a lot less. Ultimately, to have a good social safety net, you need to have revenue to help pay for it, so if you are cutting taxes, you need to draw a line somewhere.

I'd also point out that the stimulus bill cut taxes significantly. Your argument that Labor and Peace members of congress don't want to cut taxes for people is simply wrong. Tax cuts for the higher brackets was always the area of contention, and if I was someone to grandstand I'd start a similar thread condemning right wing members for their support for tax cuts for the rich. This is an extremely dishonest and unproductive way of doing politics.

I know you don't like it when your actions get fairly criticized, but how is having a legitimate discussion on ideological policy in a politics and government simulator any more dishonest and unproductive than you and your party wielding and maintaining power in near total secrecy through discord?

It isn't a fair criticism because anyone who actually read the thread knows that I am in favour of small business tax cuts. This specific proposal was rejected, not the idea of small business cuts as a whole. I approached the bill with an open mind and attempted to find common ground on it. Of course, "small business tax cut proposal fails because opponents criticised the fact that most of the benefits of the proposal went to people who are already doing alright" isn't a very appealing soundbite for election time. It is because I believe in honest debate and disagreement that it annoys me when I feel someone has misrepresented my views. Also, I'm not sure what sort of power you think I wield in secret. Anyone who's actually interested in my contributions to the game can read the house threads and see that I very much play Atlasia in public and I give my views on every bill that comes through the house, and I'm not particularly big on discord.

Do people actually think a 300k buisness is extremely rich?

doesn't fix the fact that business making 800k and 900k were also getting tax cuts

The amendment Labor introduced barely cut taxes for businesses making between 50k-210k and from 210k didnt cut taxes at all.


It was a terrible amendment that deserved to be voted down .



If Labor actually felt the problem was the tax cut businesses making between 500k-1m was making the could have made the 500k-1m group also pay 39% through an amendment and I would have voted for it .

Labor didn't propose the amendment, I did. If you were clearer at the time about exactly what your issues were with it, we might've been able to find some common ground. I'd also note that my amendment actually cut taxes more for earnings below 13k, which your proposal only lowered by 2%. All my proposal did was make the tax cuts more proportional to who needs them the most. It did decrease the overall tax cut but that also has to do with realism to some extent. If you cut tax too much without a clear plan to fill the hole in the budget, its only gonna lead to more problems in the long term.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Answer me this do you think business income should be taxed the same as individual income

[Former President tack50]

Answer me this do you think business income should be taxed the same as individual income

Since now corporations are people, I guess we should tax them like people too

[thumb21]

Answer me this do you think business income should be taxed the same as individual income

I understand that the income a business makes is different to the income an individual makes which is why I was/am willing to support some form of small business tax cut. I just don't think higher incomes should get these tax cuts.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Answer me this do you think business income should be taxed the same as individual income

I understand that the income a business makes is different to the income an individual makes which is why I was/am willing to support some form of small business tax cut. I just don't think higher incomes should get these tax cuts.

This is a fundamental principle though and its not about tax cuts or increases it is about should businesses pay the same rates as individuals because the fact is businesses unlike individuals mostly reinvest that money into their own businesses which benefits our economy.


Also the fact that businesses making over 100k still would pay marginal rates at 20% is pretty bad and it should be significantly lower than that and also not giving tax cuts at all to businesses making 300k is pretty bad as well because they need tax cuts as well.


 

[thumb21]

Answer me this do you think business income should be taxed the same as individual income

I understand that the income a business makes is different to the income an individual makes which is why I was/am willing to support some form of small business tax cut. I just don't think higher incomes should get these tax cuts.

This is a fundamental principle though and its not about tax cuts or increases it is about should businesses pay the same rates as individuals because the fact is businesses unlike individuals mostly reinvest that money into their own businesses which benefits our economy.


Also the fact that businesses making over 100k still would pay marginal rates at 20% is pretty bad and it should be significantly lower than that and also not giving tax cuts at all to businesses making 300k is pretty bad as well because they need tax cuts as well.

A business that makes $20k or $50k acts differently to a business that makes $300k or $500k so you can't apply the same principle throughout. Its straight forward to see how a business owner who makes $20k has to balance paying their bills and other personal needs with investing in their business, so you can see how a tax cut can directly help them with their personal financial security and with reinvesting in their business. But, the more money a business makes, the more it can afford to make investments without the need for tax relief.

[Deep Dixieland Senator, Muad'dib (OSR MSR)]

Looks like Labor wants to put small business people out of business and put both them and their employees on the dole. Small businesses are struggling dealing with the Covid-19 situation and those Laborites in Nyman are giving them the metaphorical finger.