Is "Believe All Women" a legitimate example of a Mandela effect?

[7,052,770]

A Mandela Effect is a false memory believed by a large number of people. Apparently there are thousands of people who honestly claim to remember Nelson Mandela dying in the 1980s. Other examples are a movie called "Shazam" where Sinbad played a genie (a movie that does not exist) and the spelling of the children's book Berenstain Bears (a lot of people insist it's Berenstein Bears). You can see more details in this Youtube video.

Now, you have a lot of Republicans insisting that Democrats have used the phrase "Believe All Women," but that isn't actually true. The phrase has always been "Believe Women," and General MacArthur has proved this using Google Trends:


Notice how "Believe All Women" only sees an uptick in the last few months when Republicans are accusing Democrats of hypocrisy. While I can't speak for literally every random Twitter user (many of whom are bots and trolls), this is solid proof that "Believe All Women" was never the phrase that any politician or #MeToo movement leader was using, nor was it a common rallying cry of the masses.

So the question is -- are Republicans aware of this and just making a baseless attack, or do they honestly misremember and think they have a legitimate point? Are we seeing a new Mandela Effect in action?

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Hillary herself said it. She literally said all.

[Figueira]

Hillary herself said it. She literally said all.

I'm going to need a source for that.

EDIT: That said, the ire seems to be mostly directed at the Me Too movement as a whole, not any specific Democratic politician (except maybe Joe Biden). If it turns out Hillary said "believe all women" (which I can't find via Googling) then I'll be the first to say that was a stupid thing to say, but Hillary is one person who isn't particularly relevant anymore.

[Brittain33]

Occam's razor = Republicans know what they're doing in misrepresenting what was said. There's a long history of both parties doing this, Republicans more than Democrats.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Hillary herself said it. She literally said all.

I'm going to need a source for that.

EDIT: That said, the ire seems to be mostly directed at the Me Too movement as a whole, not any specific Democratic politician (except maybe Joe Biden). If it turns out Hillary said "believe all women" (which I can't find via Googling) then I'll be the first to say that was a stupid thing to say, but Hillary is one person who isn't particularly relevant anymore.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/09/14/hillary_clinton_women_should_be_believed_when_they_claim_rape_have_to_increase_prevention.html

“A right to be believed”

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Occam's razor = Republicans know what they're doing in misrepresenting what was said. There's a long history of both parties doing this, Republicans more than Democrats.

MUH BOTH SIDES! MUH DEFLECTIONS!

[7,052,770]

Hillary herself said it. She literally said all.

I'm going to need a source for that.

EDIT: That said, the ire seems to be mostly directed at the Me Too movement as a whole, not any specific Democratic politician (except maybe Joe Biden). If it turns out Hillary said "believe all women" (which I can't find via Googling) then I'll be the first to say that was a stupid thing to say, but Hillary is one person who isn't particularly relevant anymore.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/09/14/hillary_clinton_women_should_be_believed_when_they_claim_rape_have_to_increase_prevention.html

“A right to be believed”

So she didn't say "Believe all women," despite you remembering that she did. I think you've proved my point.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Hillary herself said it. She literally said all.

I'm going to need a source for that.

EDIT: That said, the ire seems to be mostly directed at the Me Too movement as a whole, not any specific Democratic politician (except maybe Joe Biden). If it turns out Hillary said "believe all women" (which I can't find via Googling) then I'll be the first to say that was a stupid thing to say, but Hillary is one person who isn't particularly relevant anymore.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/09/14/hillary_clinton_women_should_be_believed_when_they_claim_rape_have_to_increase_prevention.html

“A right to be believed”

So she didn't say "Believe all women," despite you remembering that she did. I think you've proved my point.

Quit splitting hairs. You know damn well that “a right to be believed” is the same as “believe all women.”

[7,052,770]

Hillary herself said it. She literally said all.

I'm going to need a source for that.

EDIT: That said, the ire seems to be mostly directed at the Me Too movement as a whole, not any specific Democratic politician (except maybe Joe Biden). If it turns out Hillary said "believe all women" (which I can't find via Googling) then I'll be the first to say that was a stupid thing to say, but Hillary is one person who isn't particularly relevant anymore.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/09/14/hillary_clinton_women_should_be_believed_when_they_claim_rape_have_to_increase_prevention.html

“A right to be believed”

So she didn't say "Believe all women," despite you remembering that she did. I think you've proved my point.

Quit splitting hairs. You know damn well that “a right to be believed” is the same as “believe all women.”

You used the word "literally," turned out to be wrong, and are now moving the goalposts.

"Believe all women" isn't a phrase that has been used by Hillary or any other significant leader, but you had a false memory that she did.

[Cassius]

‘Believe women’ and ‘believe all women’ functionally mean the same thing. Being told to ‘believe women’ full stop doesn’t exactly leave room for nuance and reasonable scepticism.

[ShamDam]

"Believe women," like "Black Lives Matter," is a phrase that's meant to be in response to a societal failing.

"Believe women" arose because time after time, case after case, legitimate evidence would pile up against an accused person, but people would contort themselves into all kinds of explanations and conspiracies to justify their perspective...instead of just believing women. It doesn't mean "believe women [in all scenarios]," it means "[instead of ignoring all the information in front of you, why not just] believe women."

But people take "believe women" to mean "never disbelieve women," just like they assume "Black Lives Matter" means "Non-Black Lives Don't Matter." It's not so cut and dry.

[beaver2.0]

‘Believe women’ and ‘believe all women’ functionally mean the same thing. Being told to ‘believe women’ full stop doesn’t exactly leave room for nuance and reasonable scepticism.

Yeah, as a Democrat, I totally agree.  The attacks on Kavanaugh were kind of ridiculous.  Maybe he did it, maybe he didn't, it can't be proved at this point and really set a bad precedent.

[Tintrlvr]

‘Believe women’ and ‘believe all women’ functionally mean the same thing. Being told to ‘believe women’ full stop doesn’t exactly leave room for nuance and reasonable scepticism.

Yeah, as a Democrat, I totally agree.  The attacks on Kavanaugh were kind of ridiculous.  Maybe he did it, maybe he didn't, it can't be proved at this point and really set a bad precedent.

I mean, I agree it couldn't be proved, but to my mind the fact that there seemed to be a greater-than-50% chance that it happened, even if far short of a criminal prosecution standard, means that he should not have been confirmed. It's about the dignity of the country rather than individual dignity in that regard; I don't view it as a punishment for him for a unproven crime, more a benefit for the country in not having individuals with suspicion over their heads on the bench, especially when no real investigation was ever conducted. Unlike with the recent Biden "case", there wasn't really any countervailing evidence to the claims made against Kavanaugh, just that the claims couldn't be proven to a criminal standard (and so he shouldn't be in prison - but also should not be a judge).

Which is what "Believe Women" is about and what "Believe All Women" is not about. The point is to be credible about accusations, investigate them and take them seriously, not that any accusation is always true. Sometimes there will be clear countervailing evidence that arises from investigating and makes it clear the allegations are likely false, as with Tara Reade. But most of the time, that level of countervailing evidence won't exist.

[Landslide Lyndon]

‘Believe women’ and ‘believe all women’ functionally mean the same thing. Being told to ‘believe women’ full stop doesn’t exactly leave room for nuance and reasonable scepticism.

Yeah, as a Democrat, I totally agree.  The attacks on Kavanaugh were kind of ridiculous.  Maybe he did it, maybe he didn't, it can't be proved at this point and really set a bad precedent.

The point is that Republicans refused to investigate her claims. Maybe Ford lied or misremembered the incident but Kavanaugh's supporters willfully chose to ignore her accusations.

[SevenEleven]

No, it's just another example of the right twisting literally anything they can to fit their narrative.

[7,052,770]

‘Believe women’ and ‘believe all women’ functionally mean the same thing. Being told to ‘believe women’ full stop doesn’t exactly leave room for nuance and reasonable scepticism.

Whether or not that's true is irrelevant to the point of the thread, which is whether Republicans really have false memories of "Believe All Women" being used as a catchphrase or not.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

Bruh, do you want the pictures of you all saying it? Wtf is this revisionism

[Libertas Vel Mors]

No, it's just another example of the right twisting literally anything they can to fit their narrative.

[lfromnj]

The phrase itself is illegitimate but not the meaning behind the phrase. How can one say there is a right to be believed yet also say its not #believeallwomen.

[Mr. Reactionary]

‘Believe women’ and ‘believe all women’ functionally mean the same thing. Being told to ‘believe women’ full stop doesn’t exactly leave room for nuance and reasonable scepticism.

Yeah, as a Democrat, I totally agree.  The attacks on Kavanaugh were kind of ridiculous.  Maybe he did it, maybe he didn't, it can't be proved at this point and really set a bad precedent.

I mean, I agree it couldn't be proved, but to my mind the fact that there seemed to be a greater-than-50% chance that it happened, even if far short of a criminal prosecution standard, means that he should not have been confirmed. It's about the dignity of the country rather than individual dignity in that regard; I don't view it as a punishment for him for a unproven crime, more a benefit for the country in not having individuals with suspicion over their heads on the bench, especially when no real investigation was ever conducted. Unlike with the recent Biden "case", there wasn't really any countervailing evidence to the claims made against Kavanaugh, just that the claims couldn't be proven to a criminal standard (and so he shouldn't be in prison - but also should not be a judge).

Which is what "Believe Women" is about and what "Believe All Women" is not about. The point is to be credible about accusations, investigate them and take them seriously, not that any accusation is always true. Sometimes there will be clear countervailing evidence that arises from investigating and makes it clear the allegations are likely false, as with Tara Reade. But most of the time, that level of countervailing evidence won't exist.

This is dishonest hackery. Its lunacy to claim there was evidence that there is a "greater than 50% chance" Kavanaugh is a rapist but OMG Tara Reade is likely lying. There is so much more corroborating evidence for Reade than for Ford. I still don't think Biden did it, but the weight of the evidence against Biden is objectively  stronger than against Kavanaugh and the only ones disagreeing are Dem hacks.

[SevenEleven]

No, it's just another example of the right twisting literally anything they can to fit their narrative.

Carolyn Maloney being the best you could find is telling.

[Tintrlvr]

‘Believe women’ and ‘believe all women’ functionally mean the same thing. Being told to ‘believe women’ full stop doesn’t exactly leave room for nuance and reasonable scepticism.

Yeah, as a Democrat, I totally agree.  The attacks on Kavanaugh were kind of ridiculous.  Maybe he did it, maybe he didn't, it can't be proved at this point and really set a bad precedent.

I mean, I agree it couldn't be proved, but to my mind the fact that there seemed to be a greater-than-50% chance that it happened, even if far short of a criminal prosecution standard, means that he should not have been confirmed. It's about the dignity of the country rather than individual dignity in that regard; I don't view it as a punishment for him for a unproven crime, more a benefit for the country in not having individuals with suspicion over their heads on the bench, especially when no real investigation was ever conducted. Unlike with the recent Biden "case", there wasn't really any countervailing evidence to the claims made against Kavanaugh, just that the claims couldn't be proven to a criminal standard (and so he shouldn't be in prison - but also should not be a judge).

Which is what "Believe Women" is about and what "Believe All Women" is not about. The point is to be credible about accusations, investigate them and take them seriously, not that any accusation is always true. Sometimes there will be clear countervailing evidence that arises from investigating and makes it clear the allegations are likely false, as with Tara Reade. But most of the time, that level of countervailing evidence won't exist.

This is dishonest hackery. Its lunacy to claim there was evidence that there is a "greater than 50% chance" Kavanaugh is a rapist but OMG Tara Reade is likely lying. There is so much more corroborating evidence for Reade than for Ford. I still don't think Biden did it, but the weight of the evidence against Biden is objectively  stronger than against Kavanaugh and the only ones disagreeing are Dem hacks.

No, you're a dishonest hack!

But, to be real, there is no corroborating evidence whatsoever for Tara Reade. Everything she cited as "evidence" turned out to be likely fabricated or completely misleading (her friends and former colleagues "don't recall" her ever mentioning being sexually assaulted; one friend recanted remembering Reade did tell her about the assault and said she was told to lie about it, the text of the phone call her mother made was completely innocuous and included none of the allegations Reade said it did, Reade claims she filed a formal complaint that would have been kept in records but there none was ever made, etc.). Please name something that hasn't be debunked. Not to mention that Reade is now impeached in her reliability now that it has emerged that she's been completely lying about her educational history for her entire life.

That wasn't the case for the allegations against Kavanaugh, which did have testimony from friends and acquaintances whose recollection matched those of his accusers, unlike Reade, and, unlike Reade, there's no history of pathological lying.

[7,052,770]

No, it's just another example of the right twisting literally anything they can to fit their narrative.

Assuming this is real (the fact that you posted a screenshot instead on an embed makes me wonder), ok, I already said there would be random people on Twitter, such as this disgraced anti-vaccine loon. But that doesn't mean it was a left wing rallying cry like Republicans make it out to be. The Google Trends prove it.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

No, it's just another example of the right twisting literally anything they can to fit their narrative.

Carolyn Maloney being the best you could find is telling.

I'm sorry, you were literally just saying the entire quote was a right wing smear. Damn, those goalposts move fast.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Hillary herself said it. She literally said all.

I'm going to need a source for that.

EDIT: That said, the ire seems to be mostly directed at the Me Too movement as a whole, not any specific Democratic politician (except maybe Joe Biden). If it turns out Hillary said "believe all women" (which I can't find via Googling) then I'll be the first to say that was a stupid thing to say, but Hillary is one person who isn't particularly relevant anymore.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/09/14/hillary_clinton_women_should_be_believed_when_they_claim_rape_have_to_increase_prevention.html

“A right to be believed”

So she didn't say "Believe all women," despite you remembering that she did. I think you've proved my point.

Quit splitting hairs. You know damn well that “a right to be believed” is the same as “believe all women.”

You used the word "literally," turned out to be wrong, and are now moving the goalposts.

"Believe all women" isn't a phrase that has been used by Hillary or any other significant leader, but you had a false memory that she did.

Splitting hairs. That’s all you’re doing here.