This Once Great Movement Of Ours

[GoTfan]

So that effectively means Corbyn is a Labour Party member but sitting as an indepdent, correct?

[GoTfan]

Is it possible Corbyn tries to revive the ILP or is that off the cards?

EDIT: I should clarify, could he run as an Independent or Independent Labour in 2022?

[GoTfan]

Corbyn's leadership not only ignored the media, it was handing them ammunition with unforced errors and gaffes.

Well yeah, though that was partly a consequence of not being bothered by them.

Yes, it led to a certain arrogance and then to sloppiness. But Labour's press management has been very poor since - we might as well be honest about this - Campbell left his post. Corbyn era an absolute nadir, but not something that came out of nowhere.

No doubt about the Corbyn era media strategy and its ultimately fatal shortcomings, but I think the process is a two-way street. Pretty much every major media outlet became a shade more hostile to Labour after 2007: The Telegraph/DM/Times went from unsupportive to vituperative; the BBC went from ambivalent to skeptical; the Guardian went from supportive to ambivalent. No matter how well or badly Labour's leadership ran the party, or how un/popular the party's leader/positions were with the public, or how savvy its media team was, the overall reception was tepid at best.

Also, again not letting Corbyn off the hook, but I think his arrival pushed each media outlet another step or two further toward knee-jerk anti-Labour hostility.

I tend to agree. There were university studies done that showed that Labour in general and Corbyn in particular were the victims of an incredibly vitriolic media with the overwhelming majority of media stories about them being extremely negative on almost everything.

[GoTfan]

How does it reflect on Starmer if Labour loses Hartlepool?

[GoTfan]

So . . . anyone care to guess what's going on in Starmer's head right about now?

[GoTfan]

One of the worse decisions in the latter Corbyn era was the botched effort to get rid of Tom Watson without any real planning when everyone was feeling rather emotional- this move is even more idiotic than that and poses serious questions about what on earth is going on...

So much for "I take full responsibility"...

I did like Starmer when he was elected but I think it's really starting to seem that he isn't up for the huge task of rehabilitating Labour right now.

At the risk of seeming overly cynical, I don't think Starmer (or, more accurately, his advisory team) is interested in rehabilitating Labour right now. He's interesting in purging it of what he sees as its 'problem'.

In other words, more interested in carrying on their war with the party's left wing.

[GoTfan]

He's not wrong!

https://twitter.com/johnmcdonnellMP/status/1391494173140865029

Wasn't McDonnell one of the socialists who counselled giving Starmer time as well?

[GoTfan]

The plot thickens - Starmer's PPS, Carolyn Harris MP, has quit.

It is widely thought she was behind the hyper-aggressive briefing following Saturday night's "spat" about it all being the fault of Rayner for making ridiculous "demands" (swallowed utterly uncritically by the likes of the execrable Han Dodges, but making totally no sense at all for anyone who uses their actual brain for even a matter of seconds) And then made insinuations about AR's personal life.

Harris came out with some actual bizarre, bordering on unhinged, sycophancy about KS not so long ago - I suppose its good to know he has at least one devoted fan

So do we call this a revolt now or can Starmer ignore it?

[GoTfan]

Can we pls just skip to the part where Andy Burnham is leader? K thnx.

[GoTfan]

Reports a "fly on the wall" documentary about Starmer's leadership could be in the offing.

Well......what could possibly go wrong?

Keir Starmer is Peter Mannion.

 . . . honestly I would not be surprised if Starmer was was a combination of Mannion and Stewart.

[GoTfan]

So the inevitable question.

What happens to Starmer if Labor loses this next by-election? Is he out?

[GoTfan]

I broadly categorise myself as someone on the Labour right who supports trans right and find it rather depressing how many LGBT politicians on the right of the party are overlooking this case because of personal friendships, or factional issues. But more broadly it’s not a left right issue

In other news the below has caused some rather hilarious Twitter rebuttal from Mac the Knife… it’s an interesting read even if like most Labour books it is done by people pushing a certain view.

https://novaramedia.com/2021/07/27/heres-what-really-happened-when-starmer-suspended-corbyn/

Regardless of whether pushing an agenda or not, it seems that Starmer and his group are strangely obsessive with purging any left-wing influence within the Labour Party. Question is, how far can they push it before the left just revolts en masse?

[GoTfan]

I broadly categorise myself as someone on the Labour right who supports trans right and find it rather depressing how many LGBT politicians on the right of the party are overlooking this case because of personal friendships, or factional issues. But more broadly it’s not a left right issue

In other news the below has caused some rather hilarious Twitter rebuttal from Mac the Knife… it’s an interesting read even if like most Labour books it is done by people pushing a certain view.

https://novaramedia.com/2021/07/27/heres-what-really-happened-when-starmer-suspended-corbyn/

Regardless of whether pushing an agenda or not, it seems that Starmer and his group are strangely obsessive with purging any left-wing influence within the Labour Party. Question is, how far can they push it before the left just revolts en masse?

Would come as a shock to the members of the Socialist Campaign Group who are in the Shadow Cabinet!

My point still stands. He seems overly obsessed with purging their influence within the party.

[GoTfan]

Like him or loathe him, McDonnell has something of a point here. Starmer has set a time bomb for himself.

https://mobile.twitter.com/johnmcdonnellMP/status/1424282010579705863

[GoTfan]

Jessica Barnard, Chair of Young Labour, was placed under investigation reportedly for opposing transphobia 7 hours ago. 3 hours ago, the investigation was rescinded, with a party spokesperson saying that the investigation had been opened in error.

[GoTfan]

I would assume that in general the issue is that the party's disciplinary procedures are (as we all know!) completely broken and that the small number of people who work on these cases are not able to cope particularly well with the volume of complaints. Strange errors, misidentifications and so on have been periodically complained about by people on the wrong end of such letters for as long as I can remember.* It's a little stranger when relatively high profile people are affected as well, though in Osborne's case I wonder (this is idle speculation and is probably entirely incorrect) whether it might be a case of someone in her CLP (a notorious nest of vipers that she was o/c foisted on... and where the previous two MPs had both departed under pretty nasty clouds...) making some lurid complaints, an investigation being launched (perhaps incorrectly: as in the wrong button being hit?) and it then emerging that continuing would not be a very good idea.

But, basically, the new disciplinary system needs to be up and running as soon as possible, ideally before.

_{*Of course some people also insist that this has happened to them, when, actually, no, there is no error...}

They did this to Barnard, who's the head of Young Labour, so this isn't a one-off incident. The charitable point of view is that they are simply overwhelmed and doing this willy-nilly, but a more cynical person (myself) might assume that, like what CumbrianLeftie did on the previous page, that at least part of the party HQ is out of control and the leadership is either unable or unwilling to halt them.

[GoTfan]

The proposed 25% MP threshold for leadership elections looks too high, and will likely be negotiated downwards. Unless the galaxy brains around Starmer decide otherwise, of course

It does seem more than a little like it's a purposeful measure to prevent another candidate gliding in on a handful of MP nominations then winning the membership vote in a landslide.

[GoTfan]

Well would rather it went back to 15%, but can live with 20% I suppose.

And too many people miss what really happened with Corbyn in 2015 - the now commonly accepted wisdom is that he was got over the line by MPs almost frivolously "lending" him their nominations in order to "broaden the debate". In actual fact, what really motivated those parliamentarians was the pressure from their members who were horrified how dismal the contest had been up to then. And let's not forget, Harman didn't drop her "bombshell" until *after* nominations closed. Without that, Jez still might not have won.

I was unaware of that part. I'd always assumed that Khan and the late Jo Cox had it right when they said the only reason they nominated him was to broaden the debate.

Was it accepted that Corbyn would even be the SCG flagbearer by then?

[GoTfan]

I also enjoyed the criticism of Rayner for missing the NEC meeting. Because she was in Parliament. Calling for the PM to resign.

Probably not a smart move given that Rayner quite possibly has her fortunes tied to the party's left wing.

[GoTfan]

The people criticising her for that don't consider her as on the party's "left" and mostly never have.

Not sure how someone who supported Rebecca Long-Bailey isn't on the party's left wing.

[GoTfan]

With certain people in said group, it really is as petty as resentment at Rayner saying certain things the Blair government did made the life of her and her family better.

To some on the VERY ONLINE LEFT, this makes her functionally indistinguishable from Wes Streeting.

I'm as pro-Corbyn as they come, but saying Blair didn't do anything good is just denying reality. That Northern Ireland Agreement alone . . .

[GoTfan]

Once upon a time I liked Corbyn, but he's really lost me over everything since. Dude, the mess occurred on your watch, so own up to it. More than that, I simply cannot countenance anyone who doesn't support sending Ukraine anything that can be spared.

Honestly, if i were in UK Labour and affiliated with the left, I'd be more looking to John McDonnell again.

There is yes but this isn’t a new one- John Mac was one of those who was pushing for a tougher line after Salisbury and he ofc fell out with JC and his office over A/S.

I don’t know enough about his background on this issue though- of course he’s on the campaign group left but he’s never really been someone who sees themselves as a foreign policy obsessive.

There is a strange split going on in the European and British left at the moment. Some are being the standard tankies about it like George Galloway, while others, including Slavoj Zizek, are arguing for full support to be given to Ukraine.

I do agree with the idea that this will only end with a negotiated ceasefire, but the difference is what Blinken said: If the Russians lay down their arms, the war ends; if Ukraine lays down their arms, Ukraine ends.

McDonnell seems to understand that. To take Corbyn and STW charitably, they're being overly idealistic or are justifiably terrified of nuclear weapons. Uncharitably, they either don't care or want Russia to win because of Western imperialism-which is a definite problem, but I fail to see how Russian imperialism is any better. One can oppose Russia's war of aggression just as one can also criticise the West for some poorly-thought out foreign policy decisions.

[GoTfan]

Anyone who believes a word said by George Galloway is not a serious person.