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January 21, 2021, 07:16:44 AM

  Talk Elections
  General Politics
  International General Discussion (Moderators: Gustaf, afleitch, Hash)
  This Once Great Movement Of Ours
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Author Topic: This Once Great Movement Of Ours  (Read 20627 times)
Blair
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« Reply #650 on: January 09, 2021, 04:52:54 PM »

OK then to revive this thread, anybody who hasn't seen (the ex Labour MP, and on topic from the previous posts a member of the 2005 GE intake) Ian Austin's tweets on yesterday's events in the US should do so. They are genuine "things of beauty".

Only just seen them and they're actually just sad. Just grasping for any relevance & for a chance to return to his best hits from 2019.
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CumbrianLeftie
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« Reply #651 on: January 10, 2021, 07:46:00 AM »

He was still at it yesterday, incredibly.
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Zinneke
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« Reply #652 on: January 10, 2021, 07:52:16 AM »

I didn't realise that during Brown's tenure there were pretty major falling out within his own faction. Like Jack Straw tried to overthrow him a year after organising his leadership campaign wtf. Does that still play out in Labour Party internal politics?
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Blair
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« Reply #653 on: January 10, 2021, 08:10:38 AM »

I didn't realise that during Brown's tenure there were pretty major falling out within his own faction. Like Jack Straw tried to overthrow him a year after organising his leadership campaign wtf. Does that still play out in Labour Party internal politics?

I might be getting this wrong as it was before my time but my assumption was that Jack Straw as a Blairite when Blair was in charge & then become a Brownite when Brown was in charge.

He was one of the few people who actually served the entire New Labour term, and the above was probably a reason.

In my view there's basically three types of allies leaders have in the Labour Party,

1.) I support you because you're the best person to hitch my wagon to.

2.) I support you because you hate the same people in the party I hate.

3.) I support you because I agree with you ideoligically & politically.

Lots of the problem in Labour stem from numbers 1 & 2.
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CumbrianLeftie
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« Reply #654 on: January 10, 2021, 08:31:25 AM »

And it could be mentioned in this context that Ian Austin was a "Brownite" back in the day (along with such other unmitigated horrors as Chris Leslie and Michael Dugher)
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Blair
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« Reply #655 on: January 11, 2021, 05:40:05 AM »

Christina McAnea has been elected as UNISON General Secretary.

There was some worry among the leadership that Roger McKenzie would win & deprive the leadership of the two reliable votes that UNISON provide on the NEC. The result wasn't close but it looks like there was a splintering of the left vote as she only got 47%. (JC supported McKenzie but Mac the Knife supported one of the others)

Although I know these things are often a lot more about union politics than Labour politics.

UNISON were for reference the first union to endorse Keir*; I might be wrong but my assumption was that they're always the least likely of the big unions to get involded in day-to-day forever wars stuff in Labour.


*and provided him with a fair amount of credibility in the early stages of the race; the first time I thought he would win was after he did a video of the UNISON endorsement.
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Blair
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« Reply #656 on: January 11, 2021, 05:45:13 AM »

I should have course noted that she's the first female General Secretary for UNISON (and the first for the big Labour affliated ones I think?)
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CumbrianLeftie
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« Reply #657 on: January 11, 2021, 07:06:45 AM »

He was still at it yesterday, incredibly.

And he has now got a piece in the Currant Bun out of it!

An almost impressive level of grift.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #658 on: January 11, 2021, 01:00:55 PM »

Christina McAnea has been elected as UNISON General Secretary.

There was some worry among the leadership that Roger McKenzie would win & deprive the leadership of the two reliable votes that UNISON provide on the NEC. The result wasn't close but it looks like there was a splintering of the left vote as she only got 47%. (JC supported McKenzie but Mac the Knife supported one of the others)

Although I know these things are often a lot more about union politics than Labour politics.

Full results: McAnea 63,900 (47.7), Holmes 45,220 (33.8 ), McKenzie 14,450 (10.8 ), Pierre 10,382 (7.8 )

The surprise is quite how poor McKenzie's performance was. Turnout very low (5%) but that's normal in these contests.
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CumbrianLeftie
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« Reply #659 on: January 12, 2021, 10:13:24 AM »

Though that is about one third of the turnout in Unite's last GS election!
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Blair
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« Reply #660 on: January 12, 2021, 02:51:11 PM »

The fun trick in each election is that the losing faction claim that the low-turnout shows that the leader doesn't actually represent the union membership...
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CumbrianLeftie
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« Reply #661 on: January 13, 2021, 09:45:06 AM »

IMO having FPTP for these elections is nonsensical as well.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #662 on: January 13, 2021, 12:50:00 PM »

On the one hand, yes, on the other hand it isn't as if most people who actually vote in them would even use their transfers.
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EastAnglianLefty
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« Reply #663 on: January 13, 2021, 02:53:00 PM »

Also, the elections are all about trying to stitch things up before any ballot is cast, and not using FPTP would make that harder to do.
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CumbrianLeftie
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« Reply #664 on: January 14, 2021, 09:26:58 AM »

Depressingly, you are both very likely correct.
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Blair
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« Reply #665 on: January 14, 2021, 11:12:11 AM »

Richard Leonard has quit.

In true SLab fashion I don't actually think this is really a good time; there's reasonably enough time to hold an election for the post & beyond the very narrow introduction the new leader would get I can't see this being a game change.

He should have quit either when Starmer became leader or when the actual coup against him happened but I've stolen the theory from Stephen Bush that SLAB is a third party that still thinks it is the main party... the other factors are much bigger & more important
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CumbrianLeftie
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« Reply #666 on: January 14, 2021, 12:04:53 PM »

Not sure I agree, it was IMO important for him to see that coup off and go at a time more of his own choosing - have had a hunch this might happen for a while now.

It might not be a game *changer*, no - but maybe nothing SLab could do would be.

(the coming SNP civil war between Nicola's people and Alex's, on the other hand......)
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Statilius the Epicurean
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« Reply #667 on: January 18, 2021, 12:08:26 AM »

I might be deludedly optimistic, but I wonder if the Yes vote will continue to hold together under the SNP if/when they win on a mandate for a second indyref and can't deliver because of Westminster.

That said, the only route back for Scottish Labour at the moment seems to be via a Labour government in Westminster perceived as credible in Scotland.
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Blair
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« Reply #668 on: January 18, 2021, 05:11:24 AM »

I've always wondered whether the 2017 Scottish result was a sign of something that could be repeated or a freak set of events... it basically relied on the SNP vote falling & all three major parties voting tactically.

Even then those result are the relative best performance benchmark for Labour in 2024
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Blair
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« Reply #669 on: January 18, 2021, 05:18:19 AM »

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jan/17/why-senior-labour-figures-think-their-party-needs-to-start-upping-its-game

An interesting article; which is actually on reflection not that far from what I imagine the plan is; move away from the focus on 'competency' & start to move onto discussing the values behind what Keir & Labour would do.

There's been some issues/pains in the last few weeks & month for Labour; I'm not sure how much of that is because  of the coronavirus- not only a news blackhole but has meant we're debating on an issue where there isn't exactly a line in the LOTO manual on what to do.

The article is a lot better than Matthew Parris piece in the Times of the same subject... which ended with asking why Yvette Cooper isn't in the Shadow Cabinet (the obvious answer is that she's much better at the Home Affairs Committee & she wasn't exactly a great team player under Ed)
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CumbrianLeftie
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« Reply #670 on: January 18, 2021, 07:34:10 AM »

And, lets not forget, ran one of the worst leadership campaigns by anyone anywhere ever.
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Zinneke
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« Reply #671 on: January 18, 2021, 09:48:39 AM »

And, lets not forget, ran one of the worst leadership campaigns by anyone anywhere ever.

Burnham and Kendall ran worse campaigns no?
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CumbrianLeftie
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« Reply #672 on: January 18, 2021, 10:34:16 AM »

Personally, I disagree.

Burnham after all beat Cooper despite the left wing vote going to Corbyn almost wholesale, and both campaigns had more substance to them (admittedly not difficult) - Kendall in particular wasn't scared to take actual positions. Its just that the vast majority of members didn't want what she was selling.
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Blair
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« Reply #673 on: January 18, 2021, 11:43:59 AM »
« Edited: January 18, 2021, 02:39:19 PM by Blair »

Yvette to her credit did have substance- she just waited 4 months until September to find it & the substance was laregly rhetoric that sounded extremely well Westminster heavy.

At the start she was awful & was running on on a 'some people want us to go left, some people want us to go right... I want us to stay where we are'. It's worth remembering that she didn't have her (relative) fame which she has now of being an effective parliamentarian- she was seen as a relatively competent but dull performer (I remember a Labour staffer I knew saying they loved Yvette at the end of the Brown years because she'd always do well at repeating the awful lines we were giving out when the party was falling behind)

A story of political re-invention really- quite a lot like Andy!

Her campaign and Andy Burnhams seemed to go in reverse (Andy started rather strong & then became a bit of a joke)

And, lets not forget, ran one of the worst leadership campaigns by anyone anywhere ever.

Burnham and Kendall ran worse campaigns no?

Andy Burnham was to his credit the only person who tried to keep Jeremy off the ballot; it was always suspected that Coopers team encouraged MPs to get Corbyn on the ballot paper as a way of damaging Andy- it did work though!
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Statilius the Epicurean
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« Reply #674 on: January 18, 2021, 11:50:22 AM »

Kendall never thought she could win IIRC? She was just running a factional campaign to keep the right in the conversation.
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