This Once Great Movement Of Ours
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Author Topic: This Once Great Movement Of Ours  (Read 146704 times)
Blair
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« Reply #975 on: May 06, 2021, 04:40:10 PM »

Pretty bold to pick a fight with Nick Brown...

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Blair
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« Reply #976 on: May 06, 2021, 04:43:27 PM »

FTR I don’t disagree that it was stupid he was allowed to stand... but he was and decisions have been taken since that look to be equally as responsible.

Besides there’s a morbid chance that his replacement could have triggered a by-election. If Labour lose  it’s not Nick Browns fault.
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GoTfan
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« Reply #977 on: May 07, 2021, 02:29:25 AM »

So . . . anyone care to guess what's going on in Starmer's head right about now?
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cp
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« Reply #978 on: May 07, 2021, 04:20:11 AM »

So . . . anyone care to guess what's going on in Starmer's head right about now?

I suspect he's crestfallen. The mountain he's been saying the party has to climb has just gotten a little taller and a little steeper. It's only a year into his leadership, but having made such a show of making a clean break with Corbyn and the vision of the party he represented, such a conspicuous absence of progress* is at the very least embarrassing; at worst, it's a sign he's the wrong man at the wrong time in the wrong party.

*As all the results aren't in yet, there could be better news that appears in the next few days, but even greenest of shoots will not distract from the heavy losses seen so far.
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Geoffrey Howe
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« Reply #979 on: May 07, 2021, 04:42:57 AM »
« Edited: May 08, 2021, 01:56:37 AM by Geoffrey Howe »

According to John Curtice many northern voters were enticed by the prospect of pork-barrel spending if they elected Tories.
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President Punxsutawney Phil
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« Reply #980 on: May 07, 2021, 04:45:07 AM »

According to John Curtis many northern voters were enticed by the prospect of pork-barrel spending if they elected Tories.
Is that believable?
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Geoffrey Howe
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« Reply #981 on: May 07, 2021, 04:50:31 AM »

According to John Curtis many northern voters were enticed by the prospect of pork-barrel spending if they elected Tories.
Is that believable?

Yes. They have been spending lots of money in seats that just happen to be Tory marginals in the North. Apparently the Tory metro mayors have been pushing this message - if you want investment from the government, vote Tory.
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Geoffrey Howe
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« Reply #982 on: May 07, 2021, 04:51:27 AM »

Are you all confident about a Batley and Spen by-election if Labour wins the West Yorks mayoralty?
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President Punxsutawney Phil
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« Reply #983 on: May 07, 2021, 05:01:44 AM »

According to John Curtis many northern voters were enticed by the prospect of pork-barrel spending if they elected Tories.
Is that believable?

Yes. They have been spending lots of money in seats that just happen to be Tory marginals in the North. Apparently the Tory metro mayors have been pushing this message - if you want investment from the government, vote Tory.
Well, if that's not a clever use of the government's power of the purse, I don't know what is.
That does sound like something that would help explain the swings in Hartlepool.
It also strikes me as something the Osbourne-era Tories wouldn't have been as effective at. It seems we have a Tory party perfectly geared towards winning Northern votes.
What can Labour do? It doesn't control the agenda (the government does).
And I can't imagine a scenario where Labor wins government without Hartlepool.
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Farmlands
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« Reply #984 on: May 07, 2021, 05:04:50 AM »

Could somebody explain why these results are so bad for Labour for someone watching from the outside? I get the Hartlepool by-election with its 23 point margin, but there seem to be a lot of other elections which didn't go the party's way either, right?
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Geoffrey Howe
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« Reply #985 on: May 07, 2021, 05:15:27 AM »

Could somebody explain why these results are so bad for Labour for someone watching from the outside? I get the Hartlepool by-election with its 23 point margin, but there seem to be a lot of other elections which didn't go the party's way either, right?

Yes. So far it's just local council results other than Hartlepool, and Labour have done very poorly in the West Midlands and the North East. As others have mentioned, this is partly due to local scandals, but it's also a reflection of their mood about national politics.

We shall get more results later today and tomorrow (it's 1115 BST now)
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CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #986 on: May 07, 2021, 06:26:55 AM »

So . . . anyone care to guess what's going on in Starmer's head right about now?

"Why did I ever stand for leader?"
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Blair
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« Reply #987 on: May 07, 2021, 03:45:43 PM »

Lord Adonis is the Paul Mason of the right- discuss.
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LabourJersey
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« Reply #988 on: May 07, 2021, 03:52:56 PM »

According to John Curtis many northern voters were enticed by the prospect of pork-barrel spending if they elected Tories.
Is that believable?

Yes. They have been spending lots of money in seats that just happen to be Tory marginals in the North. Apparently the Tory metro mayors have been pushing this message - if you want investment from the government, vote Tory.
Well, if that's not a clever use of the government's power of the purse, I don't know what is.
That does sound like something that would help explain the swings in Hartlepool.
It also strikes me as something the Osbourne-era Tories wouldn't have been as effective at. It seems we have a Tory party perfectly geared towards winning Northern votes.
What can Labour do? It doesn't control the agenda (the government does).
And I can't imagine a scenario where Labor wins government without Hartlepool.

The Tories having pivoted from the party of austerity to the party of pork barrel spending is kind of amusing, even though it's sad to see since it's basically assured them power for quite a few years to come
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Blair
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« Reply #989 on: May 07, 2021, 04:09:16 PM »

Are you all confident about a Batley and Spen by-election if Labour wins the West Yorks mayoralty?

No.

It's not Hartlepool & has some advantages, specifically a larger south Asian community. This is what saved Labour in the 2019 Peterborough by-election.

I assume we'll be able to see the results in the seat from the West Yorkshire Mayor race; I had a mild panic about the by election this morning but honestly Labour might well struggle to win West Yorks. The fact that it has Leeds as a vote sink does help though..
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Dr. MB
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« Reply #990 on: May 07, 2021, 04:16:32 PM »

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Blair
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« Reply #991 on: May 07, 2021, 04:41:30 PM »



I'm not sure what California High Society is?
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Alcibiades
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« Reply #992 on: May 07, 2021, 04:47:15 PM »



I would suggest implicitly slagging off a large swath of your electorate (young graduates, most of whom are not “rich” by any means) tends not to be the best of ideas.
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Dr. MB
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« Reply #993 on: May 07, 2021, 04:48:40 PM »



I'm not sure what California High Society is?
Think of when people talk about Hollywood values in the US. Like Pete Buttigieg holding a fundraiser in a diamond encrusted wine cave or Gavin Newsom flaunting the covid restrictions he imposed to visit a fancy 350 per plate French restaurant.
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Blair
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« Reply #994 on: May 07, 2021, 05:10:27 PM »

It's a rather strange article from someone who for some reason thinks they're saying something original... I'm not sure a Labour MP has used the word Bourgeoisie unironically for a while.

It's funny as we had a few posts about the bonfire of West Midlands Labour and Mahmood is a machine politician through & through... reading his post this seems to be a weird old right thing (he cites both Nandy & Crudas)
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LabourJersey
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« Reply #995 on: May 07, 2021, 05:12:33 PM »



I would suggest implicitly slagging off a large swath of your electorate (young graduates, most of whom are not “rich” by any means) tends not to be the best of ideas.

Eh, I get what you mean, but in my experience the politically engaged young college graduates (the ones mentioned here) are definitely richer than the average person in their 20s.

Also politically engaged young people tend to have a certain perceived status in the media that outpaces their income. Orwell called academics and journalists and those in jobs of that ilk "The Upper Lower Middle Class"
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Alcibiades
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« Reply #996 on: May 07, 2021, 05:25:42 PM »



I would suggest implicitly slagging off a large swath of your electorate (young graduates, most of whom are not “rich” by any means) tends not to be the best of ideas.

Eh, I get what you mean, but in my experience the politically engaged young college graduates (the ones mentioned here) are definitely richer than the average person in their 20s.

Also politically engaged young people tend to have a certain perceived status in the media that outpaces their income. Orwell called academics and journalists and those in jobs of that ilk "The Upper Lower Middle Class"

I don’t think he was necessarily referring to only politically engaged ones here; he was in the initial bit about the “woke bourgeoisie”, but then went on to contrast the broader electorates.

And what makes it such a silly comment is that the key reason for Labour strength among this group is its economic precarity.
 
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Zinneke
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« Reply #997 on: May 08, 2021, 01:35:23 AM »

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Geoffrey Howe
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« Reply #998 on: May 08, 2021, 02:04:47 AM »

A taste of why the Labour Party can be unpopular:

'When a Labour canvasser appeared on a doorstep in the Tooting area of London this week, they were greeted with a blunt “I’m voting Tory”. Given Sadiq Khan’s former parliamentary seat was a tight marginal not so long ago, that’s perhaps no surprise. But what was shocking was the Labour activist’s reply. “You need to check your values,” they told the astonished voter.'

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/keir-starmer-labour-hartlepool-analysis_uk_60959a24e4b0ae3c687e5904
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CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #999 on: May 08, 2021, 04:15:15 AM »

A taste of why the Labour Party can be unpopular:

'When a Labour canvasser appeared on a doorstep in the Tooting area of London this week, they were greeted with a blunt “I’m voting Tory”. Given Sadiq Khan’s former parliamentary seat was a tight marginal not so long ago, that’s perhaps no surprise. But what was shocking was the Labour activist’s reply. “You need to check your values,” they told the astonished voter.'

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/keir-starmer-labour-hartlepool-analysis_uk_60959a24e4b0ae3c687e5904

That sort of thing has always happened with activists of all parties.

(so in that sense at least, a complete nothingburger)
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