This Once Great Movement Of Ours

[Statilius the Epicurean]

Hyde's a writer with an amusing turn of phrase but not much else yeah.

[Blair]

FWIW someone is briefing to the Times that Keir needs to do more to embrace business & aspiration (or whatever the stupid buzzword is) so we can work out where the stories from the last week have come...

[Filuwaúrdjan]

FWIW someone is briefing to the Times that Keir needs to do more to embrace business & aspiration (or whatever the stupid buzzword is) so we can work out where the stories from the last week have come...

Nature is Healing.

[CumbrianLefty]

So is Starmer ultimately going to have to sack a certain somebody just like Corbyn did?

[Blair]

So is Starmer ultimately going to have to sack a certain somebody just like Corbyn did?

I wish I was smart enough to get this reference!

*Edit: does it rhyme with Fat McPadden?

I might be a bit of a wet wipe but I've never understood people in the Labour party who seem to enjoy briefing on background against the leader who they're serving on the front-bench?

I understand why you'd do it to win a certain policy dispute or to defend yourself but it always just felt like these people should actually be doing something. (I had the same view of those briefing against Corbyn in 2015- it was time that could have been spent actually helping organise the opposition to him rather than just talking to a journalist imo)

[cp]

So is Starmer ultimately going to have to sack a certain somebody just like Corbyn did?

I wish I was smart enough to get this reference!

*Edit: does it rhyme with Fat McPadden?

I might be a bit of a wet wipe but I've never understood people in the Labour party who seem to enjoy briefing on background against the leader who they're serving on the front-bench?

I understand why you'd do it to win a certain policy dispute or to defend yourself but it always just felt like these people should actually be doing something. (I had the same view of those briefing against Corbyn in 2015- it was time that could have been spent actually helping organise the opposition to him rather than just talking to a journalist imo)

Or, y'know, trying to get Labour back into government ...

[Blair]

So is Starmer ultimately going to have to sack a certain somebody just like Corbyn did?

I wish I was smart enough to get this reference!

*Edit: does it rhyme with Fat McPadden?

I might be a bit of a wet wipe but I've never understood people in the Labour party who seem to enjoy briefing on background against the leader who they're serving on the front-bench?

I understand why you'd do it to win a certain policy dispute or to defend yourself but it always just felt like these people should actually be doing something. (I had the same view of those briefing against Corbyn in 2015- it was time that could have been spent actually helping organise the opposition to him rather than just talking to a journalist imo)

Or, y'know, trying to get Labour back into government ...

But they were never going to do that were they?

A lot of the Labour Left have actually seemed to get that message & have tried to organise- in the same way that LOTO in 2015 didn't want or expect Michael Dugher to be on the airwaves defending Corbyn, I doubt that LOTO wants or expects Jon Trickett to be doing it this time around.

[cp]

So is Starmer ultimately going to have to sack a certain somebody just like Corbyn did?

I wish I was smart enough to get this reference!

*Edit: does it rhyme with Fat McPadden?

I might be a bit of a wet wipe but I've never understood people in the Labour party who seem to enjoy briefing on background against the leader who they're serving on the front-bench?

I understand why you'd do it to win a certain policy dispute or to defend yourself but it always just felt like these people should actually be doing something. (I had the same view of those briefing against Corbyn in 2015- it was time that could have been spent actually helping organise the opposition to him rather than just talking to a journalist imo)

Or, y'know, trying to get Labour back into government ...

But they were never going to do that were they?

A lot of the Labour Left have actually seemed to get that message & have tried to organise- in the same way that LOTO in 2015 didn't want or expect Michael Dugher to be on the airwaves defending Corbyn, I doubt that LOTO wants or expects Jon Trickett to be doing it this time around.

I mean, they're part of the same party and they're aligned in their interest in wanting to return to government. It really shouldn't be too much to ask that they can be expected to sing from the same song sheet to the press, especially when, like Dugher, your putative opponent puts you in the shadow cabinet.

But maybe you're right. Imagine being a Labour MP and actually trying to get a Labour government elected!

[CumbrianLefty]

But maybe you're right. Imagine being a Labour MP and actually trying to get a Labour government elected!

It will never catch on.....

[Blair]

An interesting article; the only part I agree with is about people briefing.

I'm not sure of the relevance of 'sack them if they've got a low profile'... when the reason they've got a low profile is because they've been in office for 10 months during a time when it's impossible to make news & LOTO has generally restricted them from making flashy policies.

I'm also not really sure who the alternative is; the people on the backbenches who could serve are either hated by the public or are frankly junior & mid-level officals from the dying days of the Brown era.


https://labourlist.org/2021/02/starmer-has-the-right-strategy-now-he-needs-a-bold-and-ruthless-reshuffle/

[cp]

An interesting article; the only part I agree with is about people briefing.

I'm not sure of the relevance of 'sack them if they've got a low profile'... when the reason they've got a low profile is because they've been in office for 10 months during a time when it's impossible to make news & LOTO has generally restricted them from making flashy policies.

I'm also not really sure who the alternative is; the people on the backbenches who could serve are either hated by the public or are frankly junior & mid-level officals from the dying days of the Brown era.


https://labourlist.org/2021/02/starmer-has-the-right-strategy-now-he-needs-a-bold-and-ruthless-reshuffle/

Yeah, someone needs to explain to McNicholas that, no matter how hard he tries, it's never going to be 1997 again.

I'm not even sure the premise of his analysis is correct. Starmer's strategy (to the extent he's got one) hasn't been about persuasion over mobilization so much as it's been about style over substance. He's not trying to persuade anyone of anything. He's just trying to make a big show of how Labour isn't incompetent or scary.

[Silent Hunter]

Starmer may not repel people, but doesn't excite them either.

[CumbrianLefty]

"One Rule For Them" - ah, that explains much.

[Blair]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/starmer-calls-in-mandelson-to-inject-a-dose-of-new-labours-winning-mentality-wr0w25jpb

A more in-depth piece which isn't just hostile briefing; article warns that again Starmer needs a reshuffle & names Anneliese Dodds, Kate Green and Andy McDonald as needing to be sacked as they're underperforming & low profile.

A bit of a surprise about Green; she was very vocal during the exams fiasco & has been sent out a lot for Labour- and of course has been hamstrung by LOTOs balancing act.

Andy McDonald is also not even a full rank shadow cabinet member & is overshadowed by Ed being his nominal boss & lead on workers rights.

But this isn't the first briefing against Dodds. She has the challenge of people in the media expecting her to be well known or high-profile- when she's never served in government or made news. I wouldn't be shocked if she's eventually moved to allow Rachel Reeves or Ed Miliband to become Shadow Chancellor.

The piece does do the cliche of saying Yvette Cooper should come back (which begs the question of who in the top team gets sacked as she won't be shadow under-secretary for parks) & Hillary Benn; which is more plausible as he doesn't have a committee chair & he could slot into a mid-level role & is less prickly in the party.

[Blair]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/starmer-calls-in-mandelson-to-inject-a-dose-of-new-labours-winning-mentality-wr0w25jpb

A more in-depth piece which isn't just hostile briefing; article warns that again Starmer needs a reshuffle & names Anneliese Dodds, Kate Green and Andy McDonald as needing to be sacked as they're underperforming & low profile.

A bit of a surprise about Green; she was very vocal during the exams fiasco & has been sent out a lot for Labour- and of course has been hamstrung by LOTOs balancing act.

Andy McDonald is also not even a full rank shadow cabinet member & is overshadowed by Ed being his nominal boss & lead on workers rights.

The piece does do the cliche of saying Yvette Cooper should come back (which begs the question is who in the top team gets sacked as she won't be shadow under-secretary for parks) & Hillary Benn; which is more plausible as he doesn't have a committee chair & he could slot into a mid-level role.

The briefing has something obvious in it as they're broadly all from the same ideological wing of the party.

[CumbrianLefty]

The only people who want Cooper and Benn back are the very worst Blairite ghouls, the sort who still have the ear of the Observer (genuinely one of the worst "newspapers" in the world)

Somebody was briefing that Starmer "had" to appoint them (along with Reeves) even before he was elected leader - very possibly the same person now, and they won't have been happy with 1 out of 3.

(I have my ideas who it actually is too)

[Blair]

It is funny as this feels very groundhog day as I remember the briefing that Ed M needed to bring back the 'grandees' (Alan Johnson, Alastair Darling etc) which of course would have meant sacking either Ed Balls or Yvette...

I think I posted earlier that it is remarkable that Yvette Cooper has turned into some sort of Ken Clarke type in some people's minds- she's a very able committee chair & very good at scruntiny. But she would just fit even further into the current mould of Labour thinking that if we're just tough on the Government after the fact we don't actually have to do any thinking about what Labours immigration policy in 2024 should be..


On the point about briefing someone who is never mentioned is Meg Hillier; who as chair of PAC has had just as many scalps, is quite a good parliamentarian & like Yvette was a junior Minister at the end of the New Labour years.

[CumbrianLefty]

The likes of Cooper and Reeves are lionised by those who fetishise a certain type of politician who get write ups by client journalists as "big hitters" even though they have in reality done little that is memorable. Of course a certain former MP for Streatham was another of these - that went well

As for Benn Jnr, he was elevated to sainthood by these types for one of the most overhyped Commons speeches ever - but they also have a permanent hard on for endless war everywhere.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Hywel Francis, historian of the South Wales coalfield and Labour MP for Aberavon has died. He was seventy four. The son of Dai Francis (the leader of the South Wales NUM in the 60s and early 70s), he was particularly well known as one of the co-authors (along with Dai Smith)* of The Fed, for Miners Against Fascism: Wales and the Spanish Civil War, and for founding the South Wales Miners Library. He was one of the founding members of the historical society Llafur and at the time of his death was its President.

_{*Father of Owen Smith. South Wales is a small world.}

[Blair]

Pretty standard for Liverpool and/or Labour Politics.

https://twitter.com/siennamarla/status/1362087125815066628

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/liverpool-labour-mayoral-race-delayed-19857441

[CumbrianLefty]

Starmer's big speech on the economy today. Some of the uber-online left doing their best to get very upset about it, but arguably the continuities with the previous regime clearly outweigh the departures.

[cp]

Starmer's big speech on the economy today. Some of the uber-online left doing their best to get very upset about it, but arguably the continuities with the previous regime clearly outweigh the departures.

Seems like they had good reason to be derisive. Even the Guardian is struggling to put a happy face on it.

"... he was careful to promise that good government must be the partner of good business, not its enemy."

Could have been written by the Daily Mail.

[cp]

https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1362377275380015108?ref_src=twsrc%5Etf...

And the crowd goes wild ...

[Silent Hunter]

At some point, Labour has to realise that it cannot change society to fit itself. This pandemic has exposed a rotten core in much of Western society and it will need a lot of work to fix.

[CumbrianLefty]

https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1362377275380015108?ref_src=twsrc%5Etf...

And the crowd goes wild ...

What did you make of Corbyn's minus 60 leadership ratings, then?

Alternatively, cherry picking poll stats is an inherently bad faith way of arguing and to be avoided.