This Once Great Movement Of Ours
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Author Topic: This Once Great Movement Of Ours  (Read 146711 times)
Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #675 on: January 18, 2021, 02:44:10 PM »

Yes, but it was the Cooper campaign that was responsible for the galaxy-brain move of ensuring that a certain somebody made the ballot, and it was the Cooper campaign that was responsible for a certain whipped stance on a certain parliamentary vote; both moves designed to wreck Burnham's campaign. Which, I suppose, they did. However...
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Blair
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« Reply #676 on: January 18, 2021, 03:02:32 PM »

Yes, but it was the Cooper campaign that was responsible for the galaxy-brain move of ensuring that a certain somebody made the ballot, and it was the Cooper campaign that was responsible for a certain whipped stance on a certain parliamentary vote; both moves designed to wreck Burnham's campaign. Which, I suppose, they did. However...

Oh god I forgot that- probably the most stupid decision ever taken by a Labour leader. Although I do take an even more revisionist view that Harriet was by far the least qualified to win the 2007 deputy leadership race.

I still know people who try and defend that decision- it was an absolutely heartless and god awful policy that hurt Labour voters & the idea that abstaining actually won anybody who buys into those myths is bonkers.

It was the classic case in Labour of over-steering as irrc (?) Harriet partly thought she was trying to stop a repeat of her previous spell as Acting Leader where people thought Labour failed to tackle 'Labour ran up the credit card claim'.(I've never bought that it was actually that summer that doomed us but I digress)

It was at that moment that I first appreciated Sadiq Khan's skill as a politician; he'd already quit as a member of the Frontbench & was free to break the whip- and then easily won the London Selection for Mayor.

I'm not 100% sure Andy would have won if he'd quit; the Corbyn surge had already begun to take off but there's certainly a strong argument that it would have allowled him to re-shape the whole race- after that vote it was purely a case of 'three soulless New Labour SPADs v this harmless backbencher'.

On reflection I can't work out if it was Andys genuine loyality to the party and process (his stubborn refusal to resign in 2016 supports this) or whether he was having his ear bended by those on the right who were running his campaign- the PLP really was a nest of vipers in this era.

Kendall never thought she could win IIRC? She was just running a factional campaign to keep the right in the conversation.

I always assumed it was an effort by the ultras on the right to stop Chukka- who was seen as the moderniser in the race but funnily enough was seen as too left wing by some due to his connection with Ed M and the fact that he actually beat the right to win the streatham selection (he beat noted leftist Steve Reed- isn't Labour politics brilliant at times?)

It also just seemed like a general profile boosting run; Andy Burnham did one in 2010 (he was the most right wing in 2010!) and Lisa Nandy was in a way doing the same this year.

It's ashame as Kendall is actually a very talented MP and member of the Frontbench- she seems like a completely different person to the one who said that cutting corporation tax was inspirational & told an audience of young BAME activists that we need to actually talk about white boys in school.
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Blair
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« Reply #677 on: January 18, 2021, 03:03:39 PM »

That's my oral history for the night! The 2015 summer was my first real year in Labour politics and certainly feels era defining.
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cp
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« Reply #678 on: January 18, 2021, 04:39:49 PM »

Yes, but it was the Cooper campaign that was responsible for the galaxy-brain move of ensuring that a certain somebody made the ballot, and it was the Cooper campaign that was responsible for a certain whipped stance on a certain parliamentary vote; both moves designed to wreck Burnham's campaign. Which, I suppose, they did. However...

Oh god I forgot that- probably the most stupid decision ever taken by a Labour leader. Although I do take an even more revisionist view that Harriet was by far the least qualified to win the 2007 deputy leadership race.

I still know people who try and defend that decision- it was an absolutely heartless and god awful policy that hurt Labour voters & the idea that abstaining actually won anybody who buys into those myths is bonkers.

It was the classic case in Labour of over-steering as irrc (?) Harriet partly thought she was trying to stop a repeat of her previous spell as Acting Leader where people thought Labour failed to tackle 'Labour ran up the credit card claim'.(I've never bought that it was actually that summer that doomed us but I digress)

It was at that moment that I first appreciated Sadiq Khan's skill as a politician; he'd already quit as a member of the Frontbench & was free to break the whip- and then easily won the London Selection for Mayor.

I'm not 100% sure Andy would have won if he'd quit; the Corbyn surge had already begun to take off but there's certainly a strong argument that it would have allowled him to re-shape the whole race- after that vote it was purely a case of 'three soulless New Labour SPADs v this harmless backbencher'.

On reflection I can't work out if it was Andys genuine loyality to the party and process (his stubborn refusal to resign in 2016 supports this) or whether he was having his ear bended by those on the right who were running his campaign- the PLP really was a nest of vipers in this era.

Kendall never thought she could win IIRC? She was just running a factional campaign to keep the right in the conversation.

I always assumed it was an effort by the ultras on the right to stop Chukka- who was seen as the moderniser in the race but funnily enough was seen as too left wing by some due to his connection with Ed M and the fact that he actually beat the right to win the streatham selection (he beat noted leftist Steve Reed- isn't Labour politics brilliant at times?)

It also just seemed like a general profile boosting run; Andy Burnham did one in 2010 (he was the most right wing in 2010!) and Lisa Nandy was in a way doing the same this year.

It's ashame as Kendall is actually a very talented MP and member of the Frontbench- she seems like a completely different person to the one who said that cutting corporation tax was inspirational & told an audience of young BAME activists that we need to actually talk about white boys in school.

I mean, there was Iraq ...
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Estrella
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« Reply #679 on: January 18, 2021, 05:40:00 PM »

Yes, but it was the Cooper campaign that was responsible for the galaxy-brain move of ensuring that a certain somebody made the ballot, and it was the Cooper campaign that was responsible for a certain whipped stance on a certain parliamentary vote; both moves designed to wreck Burnham's campaign. Which, I suppose, they did. However...

Apologies for what might be a stupid question, but I'm not very good with labourology - what vote was that?
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Lord Halifax
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« Reply #680 on: January 18, 2021, 05:48:44 PM »

Does Monica Lennon stand a chance against Anas Sarwar?
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Blair
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« Reply #681 on: January 18, 2021, 05:59:39 PM »
« Edited: January 18, 2021, 06:14:30 PM by Blair »

Yes, but it was the Cooper campaign that was responsible for the galaxy-brain move of ensuring that a certain somebody made the ballot, and it was the Cooper campaign that was responsible for a certain whipped stance on a certain parliamentary vote; both moves designed to wreck Burnham's campaign. Which, I suppose, they did. However...

Apologies for what might be a stupid question, but I'm not very good with labourology - what vote was that?

It was a Parliamentary vote on the Tories welfare reforms. These were the real deep cuts that irrc had been blocked by the Lib Dems in Coalition.

It saw £12 billion in cuts to the UK's benefits/welfare program; a big part of this was cuts to child tax credits & a whole host of things that weren't only straight up cuts but also stupid reforms which have made our welfare system a mess & laregly unfit for purpose.

This bill came just after the 2015 election when the perception among the Labour Right & Centre was that the party was too 'weak' on welfare & needed to show the electorate that they hated those on welfare claimaints as much as the Conservatives did.

Thus the acting leader Harriet Harman wanted to send a clear message to the public- so she whipped the party to abstain at second reading of the bill, offer a pointless amendment (which failed) & then vote against it when the bill returned a few weeks later at third reading- which ironically was a very unclear message & just lead to a story about Labour splits- with Corbyn being the only one to vote against it.
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Blair
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« Reply #682 on: January 18, 2021, 06:09:20 PM »
« Edited: January 18, 2021, 06:13:40 PM by Blair »

Does Monica Lennon stand a chance against Anas Sarwar?

I wouldn't rule her out completely; stranger things have happened & she has enough of a profile (she introduced the first law in the world to mandate the govt to provide sanitary products) and she hasn't got the baggage that others on the left of the party would have.

Although the Scottish Labour electorate is so small that the unions simply giving their members an email could tip the race to Sarwar alone.

It might surprise some on here but I'd probably vote for Lennon over Sarwar; I can't see what he brings to SLab other than a steady hand.
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« Reply #683 on: January 19, 2021, 05:26:03 AM »

I know the sins of the father shouldn't count, but has Anas ever discussed Senior's interesting overseas career?
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CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #684 on: January 19, 2021, 06:44:23 AM »

I always assumed it was an effort by the ultras on the right to stop Chukka- who was seen as the moderniser in the race but funnily enough was seen as too left wing by some due to his connection with Ed M and the fact that he actually beat the right to win the streatham selection (he beat noted leftist Steve Reed- isn't Labour politics brilliant at times?)

My recollection is a bit different tbh - Chuka was going to be the mega-Blairite candidate (infamously he gave a TV interview the weekend after the GE basically renouncing his previous support for the soft left and Miliband, and saying Labour needed to appeal to "successful" people - never mind the clear implication that the only people who had just voted for it were miserable failures) and stunts like visits to Swindon and Nuneaton were part of this. Kendall meanwhile, in the literal first few days, actually positioned herself as a sort of "unity" candidate - promoting change but going big on her support for unions for example (and picking up the support of some soft left people as well as on the right) Then came Umunna's sudden - and never fully explained - withdrawal, and her campaign suddenly (and ultimately disastrously) lurched to the right to fill the perceived gap.

You are right that she is a likeable person, and she actually showed that during the contest despite the terrible political positioning (she responded with good humour to some really vile personal attacks online from purported left wingers, for example) I actually put her 2nd behind Burnham for that Smiley
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Statilius the Epicurean
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« Reply #685 on: January 19, 2021, 05:47:36 PM »

I know the sins of the father shouldn't count, but has Anas ever discussed Senior's interesting overseas career?

Reading his wiki, this is bad enough:

Quote
Sarwar is a supporter of Glasgow football teams Celtic[34] and Rangers.[34]
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Blair
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« Reply #686 on: January 20, 2021, 04:26:23 AM »
« Edited: January 20, 2021, 04:52:27 AM by Blair »

I see part of the Labour Party is talking about Israeli spies again.

I know the sins of the father shouldn't count, but has Anas ever discussed Senior's interesting overseas career?

Funnily enough I read that his dad actually wanted to be Foreign Secretary.. my limited understanding of Pakistani politics is that his position is basically a ceremonial position.

As colourful as his time in Parliament was I still credit him with the best casework win I've seen an MP get; managing to organise an extradition of two people who murdered one of his constituents.
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CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #687 on: January 20, 2021, 09:14:33 AM »

I know the sins of the father shouldn't count, but has Anas ever discussed Senior's interesting overseas career?

Reading his wiki, this is bad enough:

Quote
Sarwar is a supporter of Glasgow football teams Celtic[34] and Rangers.[34]

Suprised he didn't chuck in Partick Thistle as well tbph.
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Blair
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« Reply #688 on: January 21, 2021, 10:47:44 AM »

Looks like a clean sweep for the leadership in the various NEC sub committees.
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Lord Halifax
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« Reply #689 on: January 21, 2021, 12:29:17 PM »

Unite Scotland has endorsed Monica Lennon.

https://unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2021/january/joint-press-release-unite-scotland-endorses-monica-lennon-for-scottish-labour-leader/
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CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #690 on: January 21, 2021, 01:17:17 PM »

Looks like a clean sweep for the leadership in the various NEC sub committees.

Starmermania!!
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #691 on: January 21, 2021, 01:37:05 PM »


Perhaps more telling is that USDAW have endorsed Sarwar. Ordinarily that, too, would be 'water is wet', but back in 2017 Sarwar was cold-shouldered by the unions and only managed a nomination from Community.
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Lord Halifax
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« Reply #692 on: January 21, 2021, 01:41:52 PM »


Perhaps more telling is that USDAW have endorsed Sarwar. Ordinarily that, too, would be 'water is wet', but back in 2017 Sarwar was cold-shouldered by the unions and only managed a nomination from Community.

Okay, so it was expected Unite would back the "leftist" candidate? How would you expect the unions to split between the two candidates?
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CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #693 on: January 22, 2021, 08:39:36 AM »

Quite a few who backed Leonard last time seem to be supporting Sarwar now.
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Blair
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« Reply #694 on: January 22, 2021, 11:03:51 AM »


Perhaps more telling is that USDAW have endorsed Sarwar. Ordinarily that, too, would be 'water is wet', but back in 2017 Sarwar was cold-shouldered by the unions and only managed a nomination from Community.

Okay, so it was expected Unite would back the "leftist" candidate? How would you expect the unions to split between the two candidates?

On paper & based on national politics you'd expect GMB to back Sarwar, with UNISON either going neutral or backing Sarwar and CWU to back Lennon.

However I don't know enough about the unions in Scotland or the internal politics going on in the unions.

IIRC Scottish UNITE is even more colourful than it's national partner.
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Blair
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« Reply #695 on: January 25, 2021, 01:10:15 PM »

In SLAB news GMB, the Co-Op Party and Jewish Labour Movement all came out in support of Sarwar today. None are really a surprise; although Lennon is a member of GMB but that rarely makes a difference.*

However on writing this I saw that UNISON have backed her; they are the swing union & this is very good news for her- although I wonder if UNISON have the lowest % of their membership actually signed up to vote in these contests (you have to opt in & then actually bother to vote)

These things are fun to follow purely to see how the party works but worth remembering this isn't exactly a fun job to have at the moment...


*On this note Dawn Butler attacked GMB for not endorsing her deputy leadership bid in 2020, as she'd formally been their equalities/race relations (it was back in the 90s!) officer- she had a rather valid point about the treatment that women & especially black women face from unions but it's like GMB were obviously never going to endorse someone who was in Corbyn's top team.
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Blair
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« Reply #696 on: January 26, 2021, 12:49:21 PM »

Sarwar is leading on CLP nominations 26-21.

These are even more likely in Scotland to be low-turnout and weird in relation to overall results but it's a reassuring sign for him.
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CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #697 on: January 27, 2021, 09:35:01 AM »

Meanwhile, some truly "laying it on with a trowel" expectation management about this May's elections by "Labour sources" has caused a bit of amusement. It is true that the absence of any "real votes" at all for nearly a year (save a few Scottish council byelections) makes forecasting these things even more hazardous than usual, but what was being "predicted" would actually be one of the party's worst electoral showings ever - and far more than any possible "vaccine boost" for the Tories could provide.

So draw your own conclusions......
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« Reply #698 on: January 28, 2021, 07:52:41 AM »

Yes I loled at the idea of a gigantic "vaccine boost".  For thr record we are expecting to be destroyed in the election, vaccine or no vaccine.  But I think local independenys may benefit more than Labour from a Tory collapse.

That said I wouldn't be surprised if we somehow outpeform but I doubt it would be because of a "vaccine boost".
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CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #699 on: January 28, 2021, 09:25:37 AM »

Saying the Tories will be "destroyed" does also suggest a bit of pre-emptive spin tbph Smiley
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