This Once Great Movement Of Ours
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  This Once Great Movement Of Ours
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Author Topic: This Once Great Movement Of Ours  (Read 146740 times)
CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #625 on: December 07, 2020, 10:14:20 AM »

Whilst Labour-media relations did indeed take a turn for the worse after 2007, the real turning point was undoubtedly the 2010 leadership elections. Most of the media fully expected the "other" Miliband to win, had built up contacts with him and his team in preparation for that event, and went into what can only be described as a terrific strop when he did not.
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Blair
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« Reply #626 on: December 08, 2020, 03:57:03 PM »

Only since about Friday evening, before then it was all "but what will Labour do??"

As if that was *the* most important thing.

Part of the problem is that Labour - for all it's byzantine silliness - is a much less opaque organisation. Easier to get good gossip, easier to get actual information, easier to put together stories quickly for a deadline. Even the most paranoid people in Labour talk.

I know we've mentioned it tons here before but the endless internal elections, the love of committees & conferences (a legacy of 20th methodism & TU politics I assume?) & the requirement for some things to be detailed in length (and other things to be obviously ignored) all makes a hell of a drug.

On a side note the one good thing to come out of covid is holding CLP meetings online; the idea of expecting people to turn up to a cold village hall at 6.30 on a wednesday is absolutely stupid & is the reason why CLP meetings were the domain of the public sector workers & the retired.
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Blair
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« Reply #627 on: December 08, 2020, 04:13:36 PM »
« Edited: December 08, 2020, 04:59:38 PM by Blair »

In terms of media mangement I am admittely unsure about how far Labour's unprofessionalism on the subject mattered when frankly in both 2010, 2015 & 2019* the party was in such a bad state the media mangement side was basically trying to fire-fight a series of problems that emerged from the policies & decisions of the party going back years.

The biggest issue by 2019 was how few of the parties MPs were either trusted or competent to appear on TV; McDonnell seemed to be used for everything in the party, Starmer was running his own bid, Thornberry was frozen out & Rayner had burnt her bridges...

I know it seems a very parochial point but the one thing Labour can & sometimes has done well is piggy-back on the policy campaigns that papers like the Mail on Sunday run; the editoral stance of these papers will always be what it is but it's all about blunting the blow.



*The one thing lost with the obsessive focus on the failures of each leader is the general unpopularity & even hatred of the Labour brand in certain areas of the country, which in turn comes from the whipping up of this hatred by the print media.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #628 on: December 08, 2020, 07:58:10 PM »



it me
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CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #629 on: December 09, 2020, 06:25:10 AM »

I "feel seen" by a couple of those tbh Wink
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Blair
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« Reply #630 on: December 10, 2020, 08:11:34 AM »

https://labourlist.org/2020/12/momentum-to-campaign-at-conference-for-elected-labour-general-secretary/

The irony of the above is that the last NEC elections would have led to General Sec Luke Akehurst.
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CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #631 on: December 10, 2020, 08:59:14 AM »

Well if it was done by FPTP, yeah Tongue
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Blair
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« Reply #632 on: December 26, 2020, 08:52:44 AM »

Any thoughts about who the rumoured frontbench resignations will be?

I’ve generally kept away from following the labour coverage; it still seems like a relatively big fight but not one across the usual lines and more so grassroots members/groups/activist opposing rather than MPs.

I’ll be interested to see how the Campaign Group splits; some like Lavery/Trickett are likely to vote for it, others are certain to not support.
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Blair
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« Reply #633 on: December 26, 2020, 08:56:42 AM »
« Edited: December 26, 2020, 09:04:28 AM by Blair »

I would be interested to know people's thoughts on this.

At first I thought it was obvious we should vote against it, then I drifted towards abstaining on the principle of 'letting them own it' but know I feel that abstaining will just make the party look divided & is avoiding having a fight we need to have.

My thoughts haven’t really changed other than with the caveat that no-one in the Labour Party has really had a well thought out policy on Europe for years and it’s worrying how many people (including myself at times I’m sure!) in the party seem to think there is a right answer

It will be interesting to see how long people (activists, voters etc) try to keep the remain flame alive; I’ve seen people saying Labour need to offer rejoin or that people will suddenly turn on Brexit when they see the ‘truth/outcome’...
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CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #634 on: December 26, 2020, 11:58:59 AM »

We shall see, but I think most Labour MPs will do as the leadership says.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #635 on: December 26, 2020, 01:30:08 PM »

There's speculation around a couple of junior shadows, mostly representing London constituencies.
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Blair
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« Reply #636 on: December 27, 2020, 03:59:21 PM »
« Edited: December 27, 2020, 04:34:50 PM by Blair »

The Times has the number at 6; although I wonder if this was put out as a high watermark to make the actual rebellion look smaller when it occurs.

Although in the wider scheme it does show Labour's problem; a lack of talented people to do the relative grunt work of being a junior minister.

With both Tracy Brabin & Janet Daby stepping down in recent weeks and having their posts unfilled I think we might see a new years reshuffle among the juniors; and I wouldn't be shocked to see 1 or 2 of the shadow cabinet members get swapped around
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CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #637 on: December 29, 2020, 06:43:57 AM »

A figure of 20 Labour MPs going against the whip now being mentioned.

Which wouldn't be that many compared to the A50 vote for instance.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #638 on: December 29, 2020, 07:00:45 AM »

Although in the wider scheme it does show Labour's problem; a lack of talented people to do the relative grunt work of being a junior minister.

In terms of ability there's not much question that this is the worst PLP in living memory. It's a problem. The 'good' news is that, somehow, the government benches are just as weak.
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CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #639 on: December 30, 2020, 08:44:31 AM »

Hmmm, not completely sure about that personally. At the very least, some in the 2017 and 2019 MP intakes appear decent and will be promoted in due course.

And there's no denying that in its governing years the PLP attracted some truly horrific and principle free empty shell careerists - maybe one of Corbyn's actual "achievements" (even if inadvertent) was getting several of the very worst of these out of the Commons.
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Blair
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« Reply #640 on: December 30, 2020, 11:42:43 AM »

3 expected resignations; Helen Hayes (junior cabinet office), Tonia Antoniazzi (PPS) & Flo Eshalomi (whip)

Not a great surpise considering the seats & background of the MPs; but a smaller amount than expected; the interesting thing looking at the list is how many people followled the whip when frankly they would have rebelled under JC or abstained if it was a free vote.


Hmmm, not completely sure about that personally. At the very least, some in the 2017 and 2019 MP intakes appear decent and will be promoted in due course.

And there's no denying that in its governing years the PLP attracted some truly horrific and principle free empty shell careerists - maybe one of Corbyn's actual "achievements" (even if inadvertent) was getting several of the very worst of these out of the Commons.

FWIW I have a theory that the 2017 intake was helped because it was chosen by the NEC, which meant that people who were generally hoped to be 'good' frontbench performers were fast tracked through; the same applies to the by-election MPs like Allin-Khan & McMahon. The 2017 intake wasn't that bad- it's just that a fair few of the talents lost in 2017 & it's offset by how thin the 2019 intake is

On the opposite I wonder if the 2010 intake had so many people who were awful because it was pretty much the last chance that New Labour staffers/SPADs had to get on the ladder; I haven't done an actual count but I'm sure pretty much all of those who quit/spent more time with their money where those who'd come via this path.

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CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #641 on: December 30, 2020, 01:21:04 PM »

I think the 2005 intake also wasn't great in that regard.
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CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #642 on: December 31, 2020, 08:04:27 AM »

A figure of 20 Labour MPs going against the whip now being mentioned.

Which wouldn't be that many compared to the A50 vote for instance.

In the end it was 36 abstentions (though a few may have been "officially" approved) and just one Labour MP (representing Streatham, probably the most pro-remain seat in the UK) voting against.

Only three junior front benchers quitting though, something I expect Starmer can live with.
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Blair
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« Reply #643 on: December 31, 2020, 10:22:43 AM »

I think the 2005 intake also wasn't great in that regard.

If you want a chuckle...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2005/may/13/uk.election2005
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EastAnglianLefty
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« Reply #644 on: December 31, 2020, 01:22:09 PM »

I think the 2005 intake also wasn't great in that regard.

That was also a particularly New Labour intake, partly because the right of the party has generally been much better at managing selection processes in recent years than the left (even when the process isn't stitched up, and occasionally even when it has been stitched up against them.)
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IceAgeComing
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« Reply #645 on: December 31, 2020, 02:54:25 PM »

I do wonder if there's a pattern as to what intakes of MPs are 'better' than others.  Might be worth looking into: there are assumptions I can make (landslide defeats not being great since you'll have less new blood and those conditions might not encourage people to stand even in safe seats; I suspect late in long terms is probably less likely to be good since that's when party membership starts getting thin and a lot of your ambitious younger people probably got in in earlier elections) but I don't know if they are grounded in fact.
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EastAnglianLefty
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« Reply #646 on: January 01, 2021, 05:59:06 AM »

Partly it's a question of what those MPs are aiming to do. For example, the highest ambition of much of the 2005 Labour intake was to get a junior ministerial job, and as a result they tended to struggle with the rather different requirements of an effective opposition MP.
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CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #647 on: January 01, 2021, 07:36:36 AM »


That description of Pat McFadden - genuine LOL Smiley
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CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #648 on: January 07, 2021, 09:57:26 AM »

OK then to revive this thread, anybody who hasn't seen (the ex Labour MP, and on topic from the previous posts a member of the 2005 GE intake) Ian Austin's tweets on yesterday's events in the US should do so. They are genuine "things of beauty".
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Blair
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« Reply #649 on: January 09, 2021, 04:52:54 PM »

OK then to revive this thread, anybody who hasn't seen (the ex Labour MP, and on topic from the previous posts a member of the 2005 GE intake) Ian Austin's tweets on yesterday's events in the US should do so. They are genuine "things of beauty".

Only just seen them and they're actually just sad. Just grasping for any relevance & for a chance to return to his best hits from 2019.
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