This Once Great Movement Of Ours

[Wiswylfen]

Isn't that very much a "local politics" thing?

It wouldn't have succeeded without Alan Campbell's willingness to go along with it. Which has led to a man being thrown to the wolves, his reputation trashed by the vilest speculation (all wrong—and all egged on by those sections of the media now going on about how awful it is to speculate, full stop, when you don't know the details). Oh and his seat is going to Mary Glindon. What an end to such a long career. I just hope Nick Forbes is proud of himself.

[Helsinkian]

Some Labour activists are up in arms over Keir Starmer's decision to feature the national flag in campaign leaflets because of... a far-right party that hasn't been relevant since the 1970s?

Keir Starmer faces discontent as Labour MPs reject union jack election flyers

Exclusive: Members say flag may alienate ethnic minority voters as some associate it with far right

[...] The union flag has taken on an increasingly prominent role under Starmer as he seeks to emphasise Labour’s “patriotic” credentials to assert that the party has changed from the Jeremy Corbyn era.

However, some Labour MPs have suggested that the prominence of red, white and blue still has negative connotations among ethnic minority communities targeted by the far right.

[...] “For a lot of communities we are talking about colours that are associated with the National Front or another far-right group.”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/30/starmer-faces-discontent-as-labour-mps-criticise-election-flyers-union-jacks

[Helsinkian]

This is what the flyers look like:

https://twitter.com/SamanthaNiblet4/status/1774120717207982378

[CumbrianLefty]

Complete non-story from the Graun.

[JimJamUK]

A large proportion of the people complaining in the comments of that tweet have the Palestinian, EU and/or trans flags in their name/bio. Nationalism and pride is completely normal until it’s a political party using the flag of its own country.

[Property Representative of the Harold Holt Swimming Centre]

A large proportion of the people complaining in the comments of that tweet have the Palestinian, EU and/or trans flags in their name/bio. Nationalism and pride is completely normal until it’s a political party using the flag of its own country.

I think I once changed my Facebook profile picture so that it was covered in rainbow colours. Must have been one June. Other than that I have never engaged in any kind of flag nonsense. The problem is that a lot of people categorise you if you have any kind of flag or symbol in your profile. It's better to be assessed on the basis of whatever bile you actually spout, IMO.

[MaxQue]

A large proportion of the people complaining in the comments of that tweet have the Palestinian, EU and/or trans flags in their name/bio. Nationalism and pride is completely normal until it’s a political party using the flag of its own country.

However, I would caution against using these in Scotland and Wales.

[Wiswylfen]

A large proportion of the people complaining in the comments of that tweet have the Palestinian, EU and/or trans flags in their name/bio. Nationalism and pride is completely normal until it’s a political party using the flag of its own country.

Really? What country is that?

[CumbrianLefty]

A large proportion of the people complaining in the comments of that tweet have the Palestinian, EU and/or trans flags in their name/bio. Nationalism and pride is completely normal until it’s a political party using the flag of its own country.

Really? What country is that?

We are talking about the UK flag here?

Even if you consider yourself primarily English, it is still your flag.

[Torrain]

A large proportion of the people complaining in the comments of that tweet have the Palestinian, EU and/or trans flags in their name/bio. Nationalism and pride is completely normal until it’s a political party using the flag of its own country.

However, I would caution against using these in Scotland and Wales.

Oh, you'll be fine, as long as you don't live in very specific parts of the Greater Glasgow area. Elsewhere you'll just be quietly judged by neighbours for being overtly political - in the same way middle-aged folk who still live in houses plastered with saltires, YES stickers and rude posters about the Tories are seen as a bit kooky.

Kinda surprised you missed off the one devolved nation that loves flag-waving (of every hue) more than any other...

[CumbrianLefty]

Labour uses their national flags for most of its messaging in Scotland and Wales.

Which is maybe interesting.

[Wiswylfen]

A large proportion of the people complaining in the comments of that tweet have the Palestinian, EU and/or trans flags in their name/bio. Nationalism and pride is completely normal until it’s a political party using the flag of its own country.

Really? What country is that?

We are talking about the UK flag here?

Even if you consider yourself primarily English, it is still your flag.

I consider myself completely English. I am no more or less 'British' than I am a European, and the flag is no more or less mine than the European Union's flag was before Brexit.

[CumbrianLefty]

And that is a completely legitimate view - but the fact Labour prefers to use the UK flag in its English propaganda shows that such a position is a minority one.

[Wiswylfen]

Sometimes you have to lead, but of course right now the party won't even follow.

[AustralianSwingVoter]

If Keir festooned himself in the St George’s Cross some Telegraph columnist would probably accuse him of revealing a secret agenda to break up the union, at least I wouldn’t put it past them.

[Blair]

The argument over this, writing in the sun, attacking immigration for lowering wages and vague praise for Thatcher seems to be a never ending argument in Labour. Can remember all of them under Miliband

[Filuwaúrdjan]

However, I would caution against using these in Scotland and Wales.

Labour branding has always been different in both (Labour's traditional colours in Wales are red and green, for instance), though, for whatever it's worth, the Union Flag is no more contentious in Wales than it is in England.

[Alcibiades]

These days, the St George’s Cross certainly has more far-right connotations than the Union Jack (although this was not always the case; in the 80s, as well as its use by the National Front, hooligans would always fly the latter at England games). It’s really not a mystery why Labour isn’t using it; it also seems relevant here that ethnic minorities in England, for fairly obvious reasons, are likelier to identify as British rather than English.

[afleitch]

Meh, Labour under Blair used the Union Jack quite frequently. The issue with the leaflets should be the lack of Labour branding, except it seems, on the back.

[CumbrianLefty]

Sometimes you have to lead, but of course right now the party won't even follow.

Political parties are for the most part followers, not leaders. Its the nature of the thing.

[Wiswylfen]

Sometimes you have to lead, but of course right now the party won't even follow.

Political parties are for the most part followers, not leaders. Its the nature of the thing.

Immediately, that much is all I want.

[Alcibiades]

If English nationalism is that important to you, other parties are available. I’m not sure why anyone would expect the Labour Party to ‘lead’ on this extremely niche (and that’s putting it mildly) issue.

[Wiswylfen]

If English nationalism is that important to you, other parties are available. I’m not sure why anyone would expect the Labour Party to ‘lead’ on this extremely niche (and that’s putting it mildly) issue.

IDK what you're going about days after the Starmer media tour against the woke red-purple-blue cross, which is a bit more than 'perhaps England is a nation'. For that matter I am not a particularly big fan of St George's Cross (see also: the Labour rose) and so your talk of its connotations is completely irrelevant.

Alternatively, actually I am from Northumberland, the last Labour government led on the extremely niche issue of the restoration of its autonomy if in an imperfect form, sadly it was defeated by money and the Teesside vote, etc.

[Alcibiades]

If English nationalism is that important to you, other parties are available. I’m not sure why anyone would expect the Labour Party to ‘lead’ on this extremely niche (and that’s putting it mildly) issue.

IDK what you're going about days after the Starmer media tour against the woke red-purple-blue cross, which is a bit more than 'perhaps England is a nation'. For that matter I am not a particularly big fan of St George's Cross (see also: the Labour rose) and so your talk of its connotations is completely irrelevant.

Alternatively, actually I am from Northumberland, the last Labour government led on the extremely niche issue of the restoration of its autonomy if in an imperfect form, sadly it was defeated by money and the Teesside vote, etc.

I have to say, this post has only confused me more; I’m not too sure what your complaint is. I had interpreted you as taking umbrage to Labour using the Union Jack because you feel no affinity whatsoever with a British identity, instead considering yourself solely English; my point was that a truly minuscule proportion of people in England share these feelings, and so it’s ludicrous to expect Labour to cater to them in any way.

As a side note (I’m not really sure why you brought it up — I wasn’t talking about the St George’s Cross in the post you quoted), I did think that Starmer’s intervention into the England kit brouhaha was very silly.

[Wiswylfen]

If English nationalism is that important to you, other parties are available. I’m not sure why anyone would expect the Labour Party to ‘lead’ on this extremely niche (and that’s putting it mildly) issue.

IDK what you're going about days after the Starmer media tour against the woke red-purple-blue cross, which is a bit more than 'perhaps England is a nation'. For that matter I am not a particularly big fan of St George's Cross (see also: the Labour rose) and so your talk of its connotations is completely irrelevant.

Alternatively, actually I am from Northumberland, the last Labour government led on the extremely niche issue of the restoration of its autonomy if in an imperfect form, sadly it was defeated by money and the Teesside vote, etc.

I have to say, this post has only confused me more; I’m not too sure what your complaint is. I had interpreted you as taking umbrage to Labour using the Union Jack because you feel no affinity whatsoever with a British identity, instead considering yourself solely English; my point was that a truly minuscule proportion of people in England share these feelings, and so it’s ludicrous to expect Labour to cater to them in any way.

As a side note (I’m not really sure why you brought it up — I wasn’t talking about the St George’s Cross in the post you quoted), I did think that Starmer’s intervention into the England kit brouhaha was very silly.

How so? The popularity of a sentiment is irrelevant when the Labour leader is going on television and defending Israel's right to commit crimes against humanity, and your suggestion—that this is somehow incompatible with the party, and that therefore I should join another—therefore absurd. I'm well aware you weren't talking about St George's Cross: I was replying to your post before that as well.

As for the question, begging it: I am well aware that I am at odds with the party's position on many things. I think crimes against humanity are bad and don't support them; I don't deny genocides; I find the notion of a 'Labour Friends of Azerbaijan' visiting it and meeting with Aliyev repugnant; I think Rachel Reeves is a moron whose attempted combination of social democracy and class politics with 'fiscal rules'-ism and thinking ABC1 is real is far more nonsensical than my own liberalism; I think the nationalisation of water and energy is a good thing and should be done; I believe that shippers should be unbound; I recognise that Starmer lied his way to the leadership; and I think it is disgusting how fanatics who think gender doesn't exist have influence because they worked with someone a quarter of a century ago. To mention only a few things.