This Once Great Movement Of Ours

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

A reminder that this "alliance" includes the Northern Independence Party - an outfit run by an online s***poster based in Brighton. After its launch last year, the very online left was full of dizzying stuff about how it would eviscerate Labour in its "Northern heartlands" in the same way the SNP had done in Scotland - and then at the Hartlepool byelection its candidate (a former Labour MP who has in the past few days been urging all left wing people to leave a party that currently appears to be poised to take actual power for the first time in years) came two votes ahead of a confirmed paedoph

Even funnier was their feud with the moderators of /r/ukpolitics as well as the teenager running the Britain elects twitter account.

[Joe Republic]

PAL Memorandum of Understanding
• PAL stands for equality and justice.

Off to a great start there.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

A reminder that this "alliance" includes the Northern Independence Party - an outfit run by an online s***poster based in Brighton. After its launch last year, the very online left was full of dizzying stuff about how it would eviscerate Labour in its "Northern heartlands" in the same way the SNP had done in Scotland - and then at the Hartlepool byelection its candidate (a former Labour MP who has in the past few days been urging all left wing people to leave a party that currently appears to be poised to take actual power for the first time in years) came two votes ahead of a confirmed paedophile.

With such powerhouses behind it, how can this new project possibly fail?

It's even funnier: he's an academic anthropologist with a specialisation in the Middle East living in Brighton. You couldn't come up with a better parody.

[Blair]

The irony of course being that a significant number of UNITE members vote Conservative.

https://twitter.com/BeckettUnite/status/1484628878152847361

[CumbrianLefty]

Another genuinely hilarious individual.

In hindsight, the Corbyn project never had a chance with brains like this behind it.

[Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese]

A reminder that this "alliance" includes the Northern Independence Party - an outfit run by an online s***poster based in Brighton. After its launch last year, the very online left was full of dizzying stuff about how it would eviscerate Labour in its "Northern heartlands" in the same way the SNP had done in Scotland - and then at the Hartlepool byelection its candidate (a former Labour MP who has in the past few days been urging all left wing people to leave a party that currently appears to be poised to take actual power for the first time in years) came two votes ahead of a confirmed paedoph

Even funnier was their feud with the moderators of /r/ukpolitics as well as the teenager running the Britain elects twitter account.

I want to know more about these feuds.

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

A reminder that this "alliance" includes the Northern Independence Party - an outfit run by an online s***poster based in Brighton. After its launch last year, the very online left was full of dizzying stuff about how it would eviscerate Labour in its "Northern heartlands" in the same way the SNP had done in Scotland - and then at the Hartlepool byelection its candidate (a former Labour MP who has in the past few days been urging all left wing people to leave a party that currently appears to be poised to take actual power for the first time in years) came two votes ahead of a confirmed paedoph

Even funnier was their feud with the moderators of /r/ukpolitics as well as the teenager running the Britain elects twitter account.

I want to know more about these feuds.

They had a disastrous AMA and then whined about in on twitter.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AMADisasters/comments/mqbs4s/press_officer_for_the_northern_independence_party/
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1375430735532847104
and they also continuously attacked the elections map UK twitter user as an establishment tool for aggreating them under other or something else petty.

[CumbrianLefty]

A reminder that this "alliance" includes the Northern Independence Party - an outfit run by an online s***poster based in Brighton. After its launch last year, the very online left was full of dizzying stuff about how it would eviscerate Labour in its "Northern heartlands" in the same way the SNP had done in Scotland - and then at the Hartlepool byelection its candidate (a former Labour MP who has in the past few days been urging all left wing people to leave a party that currently appears to be poised to take actual power for the first time in years) came two votes ahead of a confirmed paedophile.

With such powerhouses behind it, how can this new project possibly fail?

It's even funnier: he's an academic anthropologist with a specialisation in the Middle East living in Brighton. You couldn't come up with a better parody.

Well, that at least explains the "BLOOD AND SOIL LABOUR" stuff he was tweeting the other day.

[Boobs]

What is the general consensus on Reeves? From what I’ve seen, she seems like a rather effective communicator, better than Sir Keir. Of course she also shadows the most popular government Minister, but she appears to be up to the challenge.

[beesley]

What is the general consensus on Reeves? From what I’ve seen, she seems like a rather effective communicator, better than Sir Keir. Of course she also shadows the most popular government Minister, but she appears to be up to the challenge.

The public probably don't know her well enough to have a 'consensus' beyond those who like Keir also largely liking her - not a huge generator of enthusiasm beyond avowed Labour moderates but having several other qualities associated with Keir - being trustworthy and a safe pair of hands. She has a decent presence compared to other Shadow Cabinet Ministers and certainly compared to her predecessor, but not as much as Ed Balls or John McDonnell did - though that is largely due to the political landscape we are in and the position she holds. She has certainly has time and room to grow further in the role.

The Labour left have some gripes with her - not just the predictable ones, but whilst serving as Shadow DWP Secretary she did come up with a proposal in which the unemployed would lose benefits were they not to take a guaranteed job, and made some comments along those lines, which caused controversy at the time and appears to have been seized upon since.

[Blair]

What is the general consensus on Reeves? From what I’ve seen, she seems like a rather effective communicator, better than Sir Keir. Of course she also shadows the most popular government Minister, but she appears to be up to the challenge.

My take on her from two weeks ago- she is probably the person he would want to succeed him if he fell under the no.43 bus.

I'm not sure if I've posted it before but Reeves is arguably the most powerful politician other than Starmer in the PLP- she's equally seen a rather remarkable rise.

She was given the relative non-job of Shadow Cabinet Office in 2020 but used it to target cronyism & waste around PPE contracts. She then pushed through Labours stance on the Brexit deal & as we know replaced Anneliese Dodds on the assumption that she would be better at the short-term political hits required.

The more significant thing is that her internal opponents on economic issues have been side-lined (her and Ed Miliband clashed) and she's virtually got the entire economic team (including Chief Sec & Business Sec) which are broadly in alignment with her. 

[Conservatopia]

Flaming hot take: I think Reeves is more likely to become PM than Starmer.

[CumbrianLefty]

Have to disagree with the above, IMO she is one of that relatively small group of politicians who would really *really* like to be Chancellor - but isn't actually that fussed about being party leader/PM.

(and being the first female CoE, should that happen, would certainly get her into the history books)

As for the question of RR as a politician more generally........well. One thing i will say in her favour is that she gets too much stick for what she said as a SC member in 2010-15 - she was basically only doing the bidding of the then leader (who has a much better reputation with the party left, of course) The real indictment of her is that utterly bizarre, rather alarming and still totally unexplained speech on immigration she made at a fringe meeting during the 2016 Labour conference - to describe it as full-on "rivers of blood" Powellism would genuinely be at the most only a slight exaggeration; it was one of those times when the audience (who were IIRC mostly worthy Fabian types) were just sitting there open mouthed, barely able to process what they were hearing. Add to that her notorious praise for the fascist sympathiser and unabashed anti-Semite who was Lady Astor (she wasn't alone there though, too many female Labour MPs don't seem to have progressed much beyond the Ladybird book of feminist "history") and its not surprising that quite a few in the party mistrusted her.

But her reply to the budget last year - drafted in at short notice after Starmer had to cry off, lets not forget - shows what she is capable of and why some rate her. I would say in fact that she can be very impressive when majoring on stuff she knows well and is familiar with - but a downside of that is her floundering when out of her "comfort zone"; another example just this week when she appeared to suggest that all those who had left the party recently not only "didn't share Labour values" but were actually anti-Semitic en masse. She doesn't actually believe this stuff surely (she isn't a moronic factional hack in the mould of Ian Austin, whatever the Very Online Left say) so this points to her just being clumsy and struggling for the right words when going "off piste".

For all that, her recent economic stuff is interesting and shows she no longer just repeats the mantras of the 1990s neoliberal consensus - if she does get the job she wants she could either be a disaster or very successful, and its currently very much in the air as to which.

[Blair]

Have to disagree with the above, IMO she is one of that relatively small group of politicians who would really *really* like to be Chancellor - but isn't actually that fussed about being party leader/PM.

(and being the first female CoE, should that happen, would certainly get her into the history books)

As for the question of RR as a politician more generally........well. One thing i will say in her favour is that she gets too much stick for what she said as a SC member in 2010-15 - she was basically only doing the bidding of the then leader (who has a much better reputation with the party left, of course) The real indictment of her is that utterly bizarre, rather alarming and still totally unexplained speech on immigration she made at a fringe meeting during the 2016 Labour conference - to describe it as full-on "rivers of blood" Powellism would genuinely be at the most only a slight exaggeration; it was one of those times when the audience (who were IIRC mostly worthy Fabian types) were just sitting there open mouthed, barely able to process what they were hearing. Add to that her notorious praise for the fascist sympathiser and unabashed anti-Semite who was Lady Astor (she wasn't alone there though, too many female Labour MPs don't seem to have progressed much beyond the Ladybird book of feminist "history") and its not surprising that quite a few in the party mistrusted her.

But her reply to the budget last year - drafted in at short notice after Starmer had to cry off, lets not forget - shows what she is capable of and why some rate her. I would say in fact that she can be very impressive when majoring on stuff she knows well and is familiar with - but a downside of that is her floundering when out of her "comfort zone"; another example just this week when she appeared to suggest that all those who had left the party recently not only "didn't share Labour values" but were actually anti-Semitic en masse. She doesn't actually believe this stuff surely (she isn't a moronic factional hack in the mould of Ian Austin, whatever the Very Online Left say) so this points to her just being clumsy and struggling for the right words when going "off piste".

But her recent economic stuff is interesting and shows she no longer just repeats the mantras of the 1990s neoliberal consensus - if she does get the job she wants she could either be a disaster or very successful, and its currently very much in the air as to which.

On the point about her being Chancellor you can also tell that she understands the politics behind it; especially in opposition. Anneliese Dodds was someone who was extremely qualified to be Chancellor but always came across as more of a European finance minister in her approach to politics- where as Reeves has shown much more of a willingness to engage in the more political element.

The interesting thing is that Ed Balls should have been like this seeing as he essentially ran Gordon Brown's operation for a decade- but from my memory he was never that highly rated or popular during his time as Shadow Chancellor (the public seemed apathetic about Ed but hated EB more so)

On interviews she also had a rather weak interview after the homophobic church incident last year & I thought of that after the above in the FT.

It might be a myth briefed out partly by her team but the Carilion collapse was one of her big issues when she was a select committee chair and certainly changed her approach to public sector procurement- although I think the best thing about Corbyn was that it allowed Labour MPs to actually say what they believed about public spending and economics.

[Blair]

An unrelated point- I was listening to a podcast history of Harold Wilson and realised that I forgot that Attlee was party leader in 1955 when he was 72. Did he stay purely to stop Herbert Morrison from becoming Leader?

It's strange how much of the themes of THIGMOO history seem to come up in the 1950s history of the party. 

[CumbrianLefty]

An unrelated point- I was listening to a podcast history of Harold Wilson and realised that I forgot that Attlee was party leader in 1955 when he was 72. Did he stay purely to stop Herbert Morrison from becoming Leader?

It's strange how much of the themes of THIGMOO history seem to come up in the 1950s history of the party. 

That was undoubtedly a factor, but more generally I think he saw himself as the only person who was able to hold the party together after it lost power in 1951. Its often forgotten now but Nye Bevan was almost expelled from the party in the run-up to the 1955 GE - imagine if that had actually happened (and it was widely thought Attlee declining to endorse it was decisive)

In the final years of his life, Clem was far from enthusiastic about Wilson - and saw his government as just a "pale pink" version of the Tories. Interesting given how well JHW is generally regarded now.

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

An unrelated point- I was listening to a podcast history of Harold Wilson and realised that I forgot that Attlee was party leader in 1955 when he was 72. Did he stay purely to stop Herbert Morrison from becoming Leader?

It's strange how much of the themes of THIGMOO history seem to come up in the 1950s history of the party. 

I mean Yes Minister made a joke about that back in the 80's so it's hardly a new theory.

[EastAnglianLefty]

A reminder that this "alliance" includes the Northern Independence Party - an outfit run by an online s***poster based in Brighton. After its launch last year, the very online left was full of dizzying stuff about how it would eviscerate Labour in its "Northern heartlands" in the same way the SNP had done in Scotland - and then at the Hartlepool byelection its candidate (a former Labour MP who has in the past few days been urging all left wing people to leave a party that currently appears to be poised to take actual power for the first time in years) came two votes ahead of a confirmed paedophile.

With such powerhouses behind it, how can this new project possibly fail?

It's even funnier: he's an academic anthropologist with a specialisation in the Middle East living in Brighton. You couldn't come up with a better parody.

As an added bonus, he claims that mocking him for this just proves his point because he had to move south to do his job. It's a somewhat unlikely claim on the face of it, given how many universities there are in northern England and how many of those have anthropology departments. However, it gets much funnier when you realise that his place of work is about 150 miles from his home, and that the former is actually closer to Stoke than it is to Brighton.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I am reliably informed that he's another former LibDem supporter - a full-blown Orange Booker, apparently.

[CumbrianLefty]

Genuine LMAO - but also not at all surprising.

[beesley]

https://labourlist.org/2022/01/who-and-what-does-labour-stand-for-labours-covenant-offers-an-answer/

Enjoyed this abstract from Jon Cruddas in LabourList today - I haven't read the document itself - but skimming through these sort of ideas are exactly the sort of thing I would like to see. It's essential that they are messaged well. Of course this is not official Labour Party Policy and was conducted through a different process (but one that I generally approve of).

Rachel Reeves also came out today and changed course on the large-scale nationalisations that Corbyn's Labour promised, and I don't think the 'Green New Deal' is staying either. I don't necessarily agree with those moves, but then who am I?

On a side note the perception of Jon Cruddas really is a microcosm of how Labour has changed in the last 15 or so years.

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

I am reliably informed that he's another former LibDem supporter - a full-blown Orange Booker, apparently.

Wut ? how do you go from that to being an online fringe left wing sh**tposter ?

[EastAnglianLefty]

Left-wing is more of a vibe for this type than a meaningful ideological position.

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

Left-wing is more of a vibe for this type than a meaningful ideological position.

But Orange Bookers never occupied a left-wing vibe, more both parties suck centerism.

[Blair]

Strong Labour right 2018 vibes from todays effort by the Labour Left to put all their effort into an NEC vote they’re likely to lose, and which will make no difference.