This Once Great Movement Of Ours

[Blair]

Conference has passed (against the wishes of the leadership) a motion giving CLPs much more power over by-election selections - this has in large part been motivated by the Hartlepool fiasco.

It makes sense for by-elections but it also applies for snap elections (for non anoraks CLPs off all stripes were annoyed that the NEC controlled the process in both 17 and 19 so CLPs got people against their wishes twice in some cases)

some of the stories about these stitch ups are eye watering even for THIGMOO standards

The NEC still have the power irrc to block candidates in certain circumstances and the motion creates a panel that looks like the usual Labour panel where it’s fixed in advance.

[Blair]

UNISON once again proving that they’re the real power broker in Labour if the reports of them backing the leadership reforms are true. Will Dave Prentis have his book out too?

Not a huge surprise as they backed Keir v strongly in 2020 and have supported him but I feel,their influence is increased by the fact that UNITE have tied themselves so closely to the left that they don’t have the ability to really have any influence.

[Blair]

How does he not understand the rules?

https://mobile.twitter.com/Peston/status/1442160281182932992

[afleitch]

https://mobile.twitter.com/STVKathryn/status/1442176195022393344

'Labour Friends of Scotland'?

We've not even left yet!

[Blair]

Ahhh the line about the red wall is equally hilarious!

[CumbrianLefty]

How does he not understand the rules?

https://mobile.twitter.com/Peston/status/1442160281182932992

Genuinely, does he understand anything about politics *at all*??

[EastAnglianLefty]

He doesn't even understand how mirrors work.

[YL]

Andy McDonald resigns from the Shadow Cabinet apparently because Starmer wanted him to argue against a minimum wage rise.

I suppose at least this row is actually about policy.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

That's what he says. Specifically he claims one to £15 an hour, which is not a serious proposition. Much like the 1970s-style absurdities over the rules changes, I'm not sure exactly who this risible staged resignation is supposed to impress.

[CumbrianLefty]

People are (maybe deliberately) being deflected by the minimum wage thing. The real issue appears to be that Starmer's people wanted him to argue against decent statutory sick pay.

Which is rather harder to defend surely.

[Blair]

This has strong vibes of when IDS resigned in 2016- it’s over a valid policy disagreement but it’s clearly related to other events over the last week. The tone from the campaign group has changed over the last week and this is likely to be related.

Some background- McDonald is closer to UNITE and the Campaign Group. He was probably the most left wing member of the shadow cabinet and was I believe the last RLB backer in the shadow cabinet-  his job was one created for him as an olive branch.

[Pericles]

Labour is embarassing-this conference looks like a mess without Starmer making a strong positive impression, just showing a divided and inward focused party. They are not showing the discipline that they should be in order to win. McDonald's sabotage is appalling behavior, but nobody has clean hands. Starmer better deliver a great speech and somehow set it right in those few minutes, but it's looking grim for him, Labour and the UK.

[Blair]

Labour is embarassing-this conference looks like a mess without Starmer making a strong positive impression, just showing a divided and inward focused party. They are not showing the discipline that they should be in order to win. McDonald's sabotage is appalling behavior, but nobody has clean hands. Starmer better deliver a great speech and somehow set it right in those few minutes, but it's looking grim for him, Labour and the UK.

Tbf this very much fits into Labour history.

Conferences going back decades has been like this- we once had Cherie Blair call Gordon Brown a liar on camera the year before he succeeded Tony. At least we haven’t had MPs and activists screaming at each other on stage yet.

[Blair]

Diane Abbott on radio 4 talking about Peter Mandelson. Oh joy it’s 2010 again.

It does seem the campaign group have returned to the pre May 2015 modus operandi of opposing the leadership and being vocal about it. They’re in quite a strange place in terms of their internal power- it seems both quite strong in places but also shockingly weak.

[Pericles]

Did the left actively undermine Tony Blair when he was Leader of the Opposition? Or was he so far ahead in the polls that they didn't bother? It seems that with Starmer it's the classic Opposition spiral of bad polls producing division and leadership speculation, which produces more bad polls and so on.

[EastAnglianLefty]

They tried to undermine him, but with little success - Arthur Scargill formed his own breakaway Socialist Labour Party in a deliberate and woefully unsuccessful attempt to split the vote.

[afleitch]

They tried to undermine him, but with little success - Arthur Scargill formed his own breakaway Socialist Labour Party in a deliberate and woefully unsuccessful attempt to split the vote.

Socialist Labour got more votes in Holyrood in 1999 than the SSP did, but didn't have strength (as Sheridan did in Glasgow) to get anyone elected.

[CumbrianLefty]

Labour is embarassing-this conference looks like a mess without Starmer making a strong positive impression, just showing a divided and inward focused party. They are not showing the discipline that they should be in order to win. McDonald's sabotage is appalling behavior, but nobody has clean hands. Starmer better deliver a great speech and somehow set it right in those few minutes, but it's looking grim for him, Labour and the UK.

I do think you are being a bit over-dramatic.

And to the extent it *is* a bad conference, a lot of that is down to Starmer not being a good leader - though it does pain me to say it. The odds of him not being there come the next GE must be rather higher now than they were just a week or two ago.

[afleitch]

https://mobile.twitter.com/jessicamordenmp/status/1442556048338997248

Ffs..

[Cassius]

I look forward to the launch of Labour Friends of Investment Fund Employees.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Tbf this very much fits into Labour history.

Conferences going back decades has been like this- we once had Cherie Blair call Gordon Brown a liar on camera the year before he succeeded Tony. At least we haven’t had MPs and activists screaming at each other on stage yet.

Yeah, by historical standards this is pretty mild. And a Conference where the Leadership is strong enough to push for rules changes* but does not have a locked-in supermajority will always be extremely messy, unless and until the way things work at Conference alters significantly. Which it should because it isn't particularly tenable in an age where every journalist has their twitter feed open on their smartphone.

_{*I.e. that it actually wants.}

[EastAnglianLefty]

Yes, there are realistically two ways you can make conference run smoothly in the modern age. Either you can separate anything relating to rules off into a separate conference and deliberately make it so dull no journalists turn up, or you can construct a Faraday cage round the conference centre.

[LabourJersey]

https://mobile.twitter.com/jessicamordenmp/status/1442556048338997248

Ffs..

This may be a dumb question, but have policemen in the UK outside of NI been *always* a very Tory demographic? I would assume so but was curious if there's been historic movement to or from that "equilibrium" of right-wing sentiment.

I know in NI the RUC were pretty much exclusive Protestant and very unionist/right wing. so I'm asking for the mainland ones.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

This may be a dumb question, but have policemen in the UK outside of NI been *always* a very Tory demographic? I would assume so but was curious if there's been historic movement to or from that "equilibrium" of right-wing sentiment.

I know in NI the RUC were pretty much exclusive Protestant and very unionist/right wing. so I'm asking for the mainland ones.

Yep. And the politics of policing and the police have tended to differ in different parts of the country as well. Provincial police forces have always tended to reflect the areas they serve, which are also the areas they recruit from. Senior officers were (are) mostly Conservatives, but that was (is) the norm for higher management posts in general. But the Met was, and to an extent still is, very different: it has always recruited from across the whole country rather than just London, has always attracted more ex-army types than normal, and developed a fierce hard-right political culture that became increasingly toxic and dangerous as time moved on: efforts to reform it since the Macpherson Report have largely involved trying to battle against this and the consequences of it.

[LabourJersey]

This may be a dumb question, but have policemen in the UK outside of NI been *always* a very Tory demographic? I would assume so but was curious if there's been historic movement to or from that "equilibrium" of right-wing sentiment.

I know in NI the RUC were pretty much exclusive Protestant and very unionist/right wing. so I'm asking for the mainland ones.

Yep. And the politics of policing and the police have tended to differ in different parts of the country as well. Provincial police forces have always tended to reflect the areas they serve, which are also the areas they recruit from. Senior officers were (are) mostly Conservatives, but that was (is) the norm for higher management posts in general. But the Met was, and to an extent still is, very different: it has always recruited from across the whole country rather than just London, has always attracted more ex-army types than normal, and developed a fierce hard-right political culture that became increasingly toxic and dangerous as time moved on: efforts to reform it since the Macpherson Report have largely involved trying to battle against this and the consequences of it.

Thanks--that and the discussion in the UK general thread is helpful