This Once Great Movement Of Ours

[Geoffrey Howe]

A taste of why the Labour Party can be unpopular:

'When a Labour canvasser appeared on a doorstep in the Tooting area of London this week, they were greeted with a blunt “I’m voting Tory”. Given Sadiq Khan’s former parliamentary seat was a tight marginal not so long ago, that’s perhaps no surprise. But what was shocking was the Labour activist’s reply. “You need to check your values,” they told the astonished voter.'

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/keir-starmer-labour-hartlepool-analysis_uk_60959a24e4b0ae3c687e5904

That sort of thing has always happened with activists of all parties.

(so in that sense at least, a complete nothingburger)

Do you think a Tory activist would say to a Labour voter 'you have the wrong values?'
This is an isolated incident, but I think it neatly illustrates some of the problems a London-centric, 'woke' Labour Party faces.

[CumbrianLefty]

Believe me, in the past Tory canvassers have been quite capable of being rude to people - including those saying they won't vote for them.

Constructing an elaborate thesis over this obviously unrepresentative incident really is the worst sort of "journalism" - is this now what the Huff Post has been reduced to?

[Geoffrey Howe]

I'm not denying that Conservative canvassers can be rude or put voters off. It's this specific moralisation which Mr Waugh was pointing to. It's only anecdotal, but it is effective because it aligns with what people have been feeling about the Labour Party.

[CumbrianLefty]

Yes, but mainly because of the media. Most actual Labour people aren't like that at all.

[Conservatopia]

Yes, but mainly because of the media. Most actual Labour people aren't like that at all.

True.  Most lefties are decent chaps and this HuffPost article is the height of naffness.

But there does seem to be a large segment of the wider left that viscerally hates the Tories and sees every Tory politician as evil or "cruel".  And then by extension, sees every Tory voter as evil.

It isn't really like that on the right.  For instance I'm far-right but that doesn't mean I hate Labour voters.  I would never vote Labour but I do have a large fondness for the party.  There are definitely many others who feel the same as me.  You don't typically see rightwingers going on TV telling people that Labour is wicked and has "deliberately killed 200,000 people with their economic policies" do you?

The closest it gets is rightwingers seeing Labour voters as stupid or ignorant - but never evil.

[Silent Hunter]

A taste of why the Labour Party can be unpopular:

'When a Labour canvasser appeared on a doorstep in the Tooting area of London this week, they were greeted with a blunt “I’m voting Tory”. Given Sadiq Khan’s former parliamentary seat was a tight marginal not so long ago, that’s perhaps no surprise. But what was shocking was the Labour activist’s reply. “You need to check your values,” they told the astonished voter.'

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/keir-starmer-labour-hartlepool-analysis_uk_60959a24e4b0ae3c687e5904

That sort of thing has always happened with activists of all parties.

(so in that sense at least, a complete nothingburger)

Can't say it ever happened to me when I was in Labour.

[Blair]

A taste of why the Labour Party can be unpopular:

'When a Labour canvasser appeared on a doorstep in the Tooting area of London this week, they were greeted with a blunt “I’m voting Tory”. Given Sadiq Khan’s former parliamentary seat was a tight marginal not so long ago, that’s perhaps no surprise. But what was shocking was the Labour activist’s reply. “You need to check your values,” they told the astonished voter.'

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/keir-starmer-labour-hartlepool-analysis_uk_60959a24e4b0ae3c687e5904

That sort of thing has always happened with activists of all parties.

(so in that sense at least, a complete nothingburger)

Do you think a Tory activist would say to a Labour voter 'you have the wrong values?'
This is an isolated incident, but I think it neatly illustrates some of the problems a London-centric, 'woke' Labour Party faces.

The incident was in London though so this talking point doesn't even make sense?

[Blair]

Political activists in both parties are largely well meaning, slightly introverted and often retired!

All parties attract activists who you do not want on the doorstep, or equally people who say things that reflect awfully... sometimes they even become MPs!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50474572

[Geoffrey Howe]

A taste of why the Labour Party can be unpopular:

'When a Labour canvasser appeared on a doorstep in the Tooting area of London this week, they were greeted with a blunt “I’m voting Tory”. Given Sadiq Khan’s former parliamentary seat was a tight marginal not so long ago, that’s perhaps no surprise. But what was shocking was the Labour activist’s reply. “You need to check your values,” they told the astonished voter.'

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/keir-starmer-labour-hartlepool-analysis_uk_60959a24e4b0ae3c687e5904

That sort of thing has always happened with activists of all parties.

(so in that sense at least, a complete nothingburger)

Do you think a Tory activist would say to a Labour voter 'you have the wrong values?'
This is an isolated incident, but I think it neatly illustrates some of the problems a London-centric, 'woke' Labour Party faces.

The incident was in London though so this talking point doesn't even make sense?

Precisely. It is anecdotally indicative of how people perceive the London Labour Party, which they also feel is becoming more dominant.

[Geoffrey Howe]

Political activists in both parties are largely well meaning, slightly introverted and often retired!

All parties attract activists who you do not want on the doorstep, or equally people who say things that reflect awfully... sometimes they even become MPs!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50474572

Yes that Tory is awful. I'm not here to defend the current state of the Conservative Party!

[IceAgeComing]

Do you think a Tory activist would say to a Labour voter 'you have the wrong values?'

they seem perfectly willing to say it to SNP voters locally here so yes, I do

[The Free North]

https://twitter.com/epkaufm/status/1390735605437456387?s=21

I would suggest implicitly slagging off a large swath of your electorate (young graduates, most of whom are not “rich” by any means) tends not to be the best of ideas.

The MP is dead on though. I don't see this as 'slagging off' anyone. He's making a valid point.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

The purpose of Canvassing is the same reason retirement homes sometimes have visits from local schools: it's useful for people in the midst of a very distressing mental state (old age, being interested in politics) to be given a chance to remember how to speak to people.

[Alcibiades]

https://twitter.com/epkaufm/status/1390735605437456387?s=21

I would suggest implicitly slagging off a large swath of your electorate (young graduates, most of whom are not “rich” by any means) tends not to be the best of ideas.

The MP is dead on though. I don't see this as 'slagging off' anyone. He's making a valid point.

He’s really not though. He’s trafficking in tired, lazy stereotypes and epitomises one of the main problems with Labour at the moment.

Labour need to stop romanticising a largely mythical working class; barely anyone works in factories anymore. In many cases, these young graduates are much less economically secure than blue collar homeowning pensioners. And they should certainly be grateful for any movement towards their party, and stop assuming that certain groups “should” or “shouldn’t” be voting for Labour.

[Estrella]

https://twitter.com/epkaufm/status/1390735605437456387?s=21

I would suggest implicitly slagging off a large swath of your electorate (young graduates, most of whom are not “rich” by any means) tends not to be the best of ideas.

The MP is dead on though. I don't see this as 'slagging off' anyone. He's making a valid point.

He’s really not though. He’s trafficking in tired, lazy stereotypes and epitomises one of the main problems with Labour at the moment.

Labour need to stop romanticising a largely mythical working class; barely anyone works in factories anymore. In many cases, these young graduates are much less economically secure than blue collar homeowning pensioners. And they should certainly be grateful for any movement towards their party, and stop assuming that certain groups “should” or “shouldn’t” be voting for Labour.

Labour: young people, we don't want your votes!

Young people: *don't turn out*

Labour:

[Blair]

Yeah his article ended with 'Labour need to win the working class' which is a rather simplistic...

In news the party appears to be doing much better in both the South-West England Mayor Election & the Cambridgeshire-Peterborough one- both of these fit onto rather weird geographic areas & at least demonstrate that Labour are making in-roads. 

These results both seem to be a sign of Labours success in these areas but equally the Conservatives relatively toxicity in some of its much safer seats.

[LabourJersey]

Apparently Starmer has fired Angela Rayner as Party Chair (which apparently is a position distinct from Deputy Leader or leader?)

He appears to be blaming her for the loss? That's a pretty bad look as I see it.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I don't understand.

[bore]

[Blair]

I very very very much hope that she is given a top level shadow cabinet position & that this is part of a mutual re-organisation.

If it isn't and the solution to losing is to sack the deputy who has a large following in the PLP & the SCG then this shows some galaxy brain level thinking.

Besides- we had two good results this afternoon!!! We could have at least waited until Monday and had a bit of reflection of the full results... but of course we're not allowed this.

What was the Barbara Castle quote about this 'strange and mystifying' party of ours?

[Blair]

One of the worse decisions in the latter Corbyn era was the botched effort to get rid of Tom Watson without any real planning when everyone was feeling rather emotional- this move is even more idiotic than that and poses serious questions about what on earth is going on...

[LabourJersey]

One of the worse decisions in the latter Corbyn era was the botched effort to get rid of Tom Watson without any real planning when everyone was feeling rather emotional- this move is even more idiotic than that and poses serious questions about what on earth is going on...

So much for "I take full responsibility"...

I did like Starmer when he was elected but I think it's really starting to seem that he isn't up for the huge task of rehabilitating Labour right now.

[Blair]

Why not announce this first?

https://twitter.com/patrickkmaguire/status/1391098005521055744

[cp]

One of the worse decisions in the latter Corbyn era was the botched effort to get rid of Tom Watson without any real planning when everyone was feeling rather emotional- this move is even more idiotic than that and poses serious questions about what on earth is going on...

So much for "I take full responsibility"...

I did like Starmer when he was elected but I think it's really starting to seem that he isn't up for the huge task of rehabilitating Labour right now.

At the risk of seeming overly cynical, I don't think Starmer (or, more accurately, his advisory team) is interested in rehabilitating Labour right now. He's interesting in purging it of what he sees as its 'problem'.

[Silent Hunter]

Why not announce this first?

https://twitter.com/patrickkmaguire/status/1391098005521055744

"Used differently" is a good euphemism for future use.