This Once Great Movement Of Ours

[DaWN]

Whatever the result, I expect it will be hailed as hugely important, a massive boon/failure for Starmer, a thread of hope/final nail in the coffin for the left and a guarantee that Labour will/won't win the next election. Then it won't make the tiniest bit of difference to anything whatsoever.

[CumbrianLefty]

Actually there is an interesting divide in Corbynism with regard to Ed M - the pragmatists see him as an ally in at least some respects (not least due to how he got grief from some of the same people who so hounded Jez) whilst the hardliners see him as just another "enemy".

For example, Ed Miliband's pub quiz has been a popular event as part of the The World Transformed (a left-wing festival which runs alongside the Labour conference, which i think is linked with Momentum). I went last year (didn't win, but came a good second or third owing to being on the same team as a Councillor who was sat at the same table).

Yeah, and you had the "fundamentalists" tut-tutting at that even at the time.

[Serenity Now]

Actually there is an interesting divide in Corbynism with regard to Ed M - the pragmatists see him as an ally in at least some respects (not least due to how he got grief from some of the same people who so hounded Jez) whilst the hardliners see him as just another "enemy".

For example, Ed Miliband's pub quiz has been a popular event as part of the The World Transformed (a left-wing festival which runs alongside the Labour conference, which i think is linked with Momentum). I went last year (didn't win, but came a good second or third owing to being on the same team as a Councillor who was sat at the same table).

Yeah, and you had the "fundamentalists" tut-tutting at that even at the time.

Ironically they couldn't see the "fun" in it..

[CumbrianLefty]

I think that "fun" is alien to at least some of them more generally tbh.

One is reminded of John O'Farrell's university mate (as related in his Things Can Only Get Better, still one of the best books about politics I have ever read) who made a statement of BEING MISERABLE throughout the entirety of Thatcher's first term in office, as a "protest"

[Serenity Now]

I think that "fun" is alien to at least some of them more generally tbh.

One is reminded of John O'Farrell's university mate (as related in his Things Can Only Get Better, still one of the best books about politics I have ever read) who made a statement of BEING MISERABLE throughout the entirety of Thatcher's first term in office, as a "protest"

Loved that book. I wonder if I still have it, would be worth a re-read.

[Blair]

The sound is me banging my head against the wall.

This is the second week that Ed has been briefed against in the Sunday Times.

Last week had a reference to his 'predators' speech in 2013 & this one mentions Gordon so whoever is doing this is clearly hung up on the past.

I have no idea who it is but it's petty, destructive & serves no purpose; like this is what I call cruel briefing- it serves for no reason then to generate an awful story & slag someones character. Like please brief about current policy splits, debates etc but who cares frankly what Gordon Brown did or didn't say?

https://twitter.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/1282220526115618817

[Blair]

This is more signifcant news for the movement & would be interested to hear others thoughts....

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/hardman-howard-beckett-takes-step-closer-to-becoming-unite-chief-and-thorn-in-sir-keir-starmers-side-3n9zw2w2d

[CumbrianLefty]

"Labour" people who dislike EM as much as Corbyn (or even more so) are the absolute worst.

There are, genuinely, hardly any exceptions to this rule.

[EastAnglianLefty]

The sound is me banging my head against the wall.

This is the second week that Ed has been briefed against in the Sunday Times.

Last week had a reference to his 'predators' speech in 2013 & this one mentions Gordon so whoever is doing this is clearly hung up on the past.

I have no idea who it is but it's petty, destructive & serves no purpose; like this is what I call cruel briefing- it serves for no reason then to generate an awful story & slag someones character. Like please brief about current policy splits, debates etc but who cares frankly what Gordon Brown did or didn't say?

https://twitter.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/1282220526115618817

It was reasonably obvious who was briefing last week. It's less obvious this week, because the presumed culprit last week was much closer to Blair than to Brown. Nevertheless, given that Starmer is prepared to be very ruthless when it suits him and that from a party management perspective there are benefits from booting a mediocre right-winger off the frontbenches pour encourager les autres, this seems like a dangerous game to play.

[CumbrianLefty]

If you are referring to that Rachel Sylvester piece for the previous example, there are two culprits on the shadow Treasury front bench who stand out as obvious suspects. One is garrulous and factional but also relatively flexible in their actual views, the other less "talkative" but more ideological.

Which actually makes me suspect the latter more in that case.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

If you are referring to that Rachel Sylvester piece for the previous example, there are two culprits on the shadow Treasury front bench who stand out as obvious suspects. One is garrulous and factional but also relatively flexible in their actual views, the other less "talkative" but more ideological.

Which actually makes me suspect the latter more in that case.

Who is the "garrulous and factional" and who is the "less "talkative" but more ideological"?

[CumbrianLefty]

OK then, not everybody will understand the code

Streeting and McFadden, respectively.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

OK then, not everybody will understand the code

Streeting and McFadden, respectively.

ah, ok.
Why do I get the impression Wes Streeting likes intrigue of this sort too much for his own good?

[Blair]

Wes Streeting gets unfairly maligned as being ideologically a blairite; he isn't. He is a member of the Labour Right & a defender of the New Labour years but he isn't an ideological Blairite in his actual policy views.

OK then, not everybody will understand the code

Streeting and McFadden, respectively.

ah, ok.
Why do I get the impression Wes Streeting likes intrigue of this sort too much for his own good?

He has a repuatation for slagging off the leadership but in his defense he was laregly always willing to do it publicly, with his name attached.

He filled the gap of the Brownite bag carries who quit parliament in a huff in 2017 who use to enjoy being the 'Labour sources' who briefed against Jeremy.

[Blair]

It was reasonably obvious who was briefing last week. It's less obvious this week, because the presumed culprit last week was much closer to Blair than to Brown. Nevertheless, given that Starmer is prepared to be very ruthless when it suits him and that from a party management perspective there are benefits from booting a mediocre right-winger off the frontbenches pour encourager les autres, this seems like a dangerous game to play.

Interesting to hear others thoughts but my view is that the Shadow Treasury team hasn't been as on top of the brief as I expected.

Anneliese Dodds had a very big jump from a junior frontbencher to Shadow Chancellor (a job which requires you to have sharp elbows over colleagues & extensive media performances)

The response to the mini Budget last week seemed a bit flat; there's been this back & forth over a wealth tax in the past few days, there was a cock up on the Finnance Bill & there hasn't been as much joined up approaches as I'd like to have seen with say DWP, BEIS & co about what Labours covid approach would be.

I appreciate that this is extremely difficult especially when Starmer is clearly trying to repair the Labour brand; a brand which is seen as overspending, profligate and reckless (attacks we've faced in nearly every election since 2010; we did best in the one where it didn't come up; 2017)

I think it's likely to see the team shuffled; I was surpised that several people like Angela Eagle, Alison McGovern and others didn't get the junior positions

[Filuwaúrdjan]

This is more signifcant news for the movement & would be interested to hear others thoughts....

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/hardman-howard-beckett-takes-step-closer-to-becoming-unite-chief-and-thorn-in-sir-keir-starmers-side-3n9zw2w2d

Imagine having the absolute brass-neck to run for a leadership post in a British Trade Union after being fined for misappropriating money from the Miners Compensation Fund.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Streeting and McFadden both have very distinctive writing/speaking styles and it is generally not hard to work out who is who. Streeting gets a lot of heat from Online Radicals because he was in student politics when they were (or, actually more frequently, a few years after they were) and because he was on the other side. McFadden used to brief the old Labour Uncut website, of less than entirely blessed memory.

[EastAnglianLefty]

In addition to the interactions from student politics, Streeting retains some of the rhetorical mannerisms you'd expect from a Labour Students hack, which is a red rag to a bull for the online left. He's also Jewish, which gave him extra reasons to be unhappy about a lot of what went on under Corbyn, and which is definitely relevant to some of the assumptions parts of the online left make about him.

[Blair]

In addition to the interactions from student politics, Streeting retains some of the rhetorical mannerisms you'd expect from a Labour Students hack, which is a red rag to a bull for the online left. He's also Jewish, which gave him extra reasons to be unhappy about a lot of what went on under Corbyn, and which is definitely relevant to some of the assumptions parts of the online left make about him.

I didn't know that he was.

I think the problem that Wes has is that it appears* he's become an MP to spend his entire time battling inside the movement. The most effective MPs tend to be the ones who don't spend their whole time debating slates, complaining about NEC decisions or so forth; in fact that reason that Keir won was because he actively avoided publicly getting involded in the drama.

Yes of course a good party need a mix; the MPs willing to defend you when you've done something stupid & the MPs willing to do the heavy lifting internally but it's a thankless job & one that leads you to wondering what you've achieved...it's parallel (in my head) to the problem we had when we had an entire shadow cabinet made up of New Labour SPADs.



*I say this knowing he is a very effective constituency MP who is on top of his brief at the Treasury & who knows how to win in a marginal seat- it's just the appearance he gives off to those of us involded doesn't reflect this.

[Blair]

Signifcant news but one that I seem to think was widely know to be happening?

Unison & Prentis himself where Keirs biggest supporters in the leadership race; gave him money & a big splash in early January (it was when they backed him that I became a lot more confident)

It means we have three General Secretary Elections coming up... but (and tell me if I'm wrong) I don't think they're at all as important as they'd be if say Long-Bailey or Lavery was Leader.

https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1282619828927442946

[CumbrianLefty]

Not long after Corbyn became leader, Streeting made a totally clod-hopping Twitter intervention about McDonalds not getting a stall at the coming Labour conference. Its fair to say that his reputation with a fair few has never really recovered from that.

[Blair]

In a surpise to none of us Clive Lewis is proceeding to do his best to piss on the Leadership.

His transformation from the heir to Corbyn to well whatever his role is now is remarkable...

[Blair]

Talk about being subtle... there's more at the bottom if you follow the link.

It's baffling that UNITE don't realise that they do not have a majority if they purely rely on the left unions & CLP reps... they've lost every internal battle in the last 6 months.... but of course this is about winning control of UNITE first.

https://twitter.com/BeckettUnite/status/1283337673868967937

[CumbrianLefty]

Given that McCluskey only got narrowly re-elected in 2017 against pretty dreadful opposition, there must be a fair chance that Beckett won't win anyway?

(though I admit I know next to nothing about the other hopefuls)

[Blair]

Given that McCluskey only got narrowly re-elected in 2017 against pretty dreadful opposition, there must be a fair chance that Beckett won't win anyway?

(though I admit I know next to nothing about the other hopefuls)

From what I remember their was a grassroots left candidate who they tried to force off the ballot but who did quite well in taking votes off Len. There was also an extremely aggressive campaign against him; irrc there was an all members mailer which mentioned the purchase of a flat....

There's another challenger within the United Left caucus but I'm unsure if they're any different in terms of the forever war.