HB 24-01: Small Business Tax Cut Act (Failed)

[OSR stands with Israel]

Can we not get into a debate on which state is good or not here please.

We are going to repeal SALT! It's time.

No we won't, I don't think such a policy is a good idea.

I capped it at a level that would only impact the wealthy

[Fmr. Representative Encke]

Capping deductions is a bad idea, many hardworking families rely on these deductions, especially here in the Northeast, I will be very disappointed if this is passed, as written.

30,000 is a pretty large threshold though

The average deduction is above that in much of Northern New Jersey: https://patch.com/new-jersey/manasquan/report-says-trump-tax-cut-hurt-nj-heres-how

This bill is basically a declaration of economic warfare on much of the Northeast

The $30,000 cap in this bill is far more generous than the $10,000 cap implemented as part of the TCJA, and far above the average pre-TCJA SALT-deduction in New Jersey (~$17,000).

[S019]

Capping deductions is a bad idea, many hardworking families rely on these deductions, especially here in the Northeast, I will be very disappointed if this is passed, as written.

30,000 is a pretty large threshold though

The average deduction is above that in much of Northern New Jersey: https://patch.com/new-jersey/manasquan/report-says-trump-tax-cut-hurt-nj-heres-how

This bill is basically a declaration of economic warfare on much of the Northeast

The $30,000 cap in this bill is far more generous than the $10,000 cap implemented as part of the TCJA, and far above the average pre-TCJA SALT-deduction in New Jersey (~$17,000).

It's still better to not have a cap, at all

[Fmr. Representative Encke]

One thing I'm interested in regarding SALT is whether the in-game SALT includes regional taxes implicitly.

This was an issue I brought up a lot last year while I was DGM and encouraged some form of 'regionalization' of taxes so we wouldn't have to worry about the question of triple taxation and whatnot. Otherwise you have the situation where regions are assumed to be the in-game analog of states, yet the NPC states are assumed to still be operating largely as if the regions didn't exist.

The reason I bring this up is that if Lincoln's taxes are 'regionalized' (can't remember if they are or not) then the matter of high state taxes in NJ leading to high deductions might not apply here (although iirc Lincoln's taxes are pretty high rn because they tried to balance the budget last year after two years of having no budget whatsoever).

[At-Large Senator LouisvilleThunder]

One thing I'm interested in regarding SALT is whether the in-game SALT includes regional taxes implicitly.

This was an issue I brought up a lot last year while I was DGM and encouraged some form of 'regionalization' of taxes so we wouldn't have to worry about the question of triple taxation and whatnot. Otherwise you have the situation where regions are assumed to be the in-game analog of states, yet the NPC states are assumed to still be operating largely as if the regions didn't exist.

The reason I bring this up is that if Lincoln's taxes are 'regionalized' (can't remember if they are or not) then the matter of high state taxes in NJ leading to high deductions might not apply here (although iirc Lincoln's taxes are pretty high rn because they tried to balance the budget last year after two years of having no budget whatsoever).

Could there be SALT for the entire region of Lincoln and maybe Fremont?

[thumb21]

The $30,000 cap seems fairly generous, I'm not really sure what the issue is. That is basically a year's worth of individual income for most people. If you are getting that much just in tax deductions, you are probably doing fine.

[Former President tack50]

One thing I'm interested in regarding SALT is whether the in-game SALT includes regional taxes implicitly.

This was an issue I brought up a lot last year while I was DGM and encouraged some form of 'regionalization' of taxes so we wouldn't have to worry about the question of triple taxation and whatnot. Otherwise you have the situation where regions are assumed to be the in-game analog of states, yet the NPC states are assumed to still be operating largely as if the regions didn't exist.

The reason I bring this up is that if Lincoln's taxes are 'regionalized' (can't remember if they are or not) then the matter of high state taxes in NJ leading to high deductions might not apply here (although iirc Lincoln's taxes are pretty high rn because they tried to balance the budget last year after two years of having no budget whatsoever).

Tbh in real life Lincoln's economy would be in shambles; but this is Atlasia and actions do not carry consecuences so

[S019]

One thing I'm interested in regarding SALT is whether the in-game SALT includes regional taxes implicitly.

This was an issue I brought up a lot last year while I was DGM and encouraged some form of 'regionalization' of taxes so we wouldn't have to worry about the question of triple taxation and whatnot. Otherwise you have the situation where regions are assumed to be the in-game analog of states, yet the NPC states are assumed to still be operating largely as if the regions didn't exist.

The reason I bring this up is that if Lincoln's taxes are 'regionalized' (can't remember if they are or not) then the matter of high state taxes in NJ leading to high deductions might not apply here (although iirc Lincoln's taxes are pretty high rn because they tried to balance the budget last year after two years of having no budget whatsoever).

Tbh in real life Lincoln's economy would be in shambles; but this is Atlasia and actions do not carry consecuences so

Well if Lincoln's economy is in shambles, declaring economic warfare on it doesn't help.

[OSR stands with Israel]

One thing I'm interested in regarding SALT is whether the in-game SALT includes regional taxes implicitly.

This was an issue I brought up a lot last year while I was DGM and encouraged some form of 'regionalization' of taxes so we wouldn't have to worry about the question of triple taxation and whatnot. Otherwise you have the situation where regions are assumed to be the in-game analog of states, yet the NPC states are assumed to still be operating largely as if the regions didn't exist.

The reason I bring this up is that if Lincoln's taxes are 'regionalized' (can't remember if they are or not) then the matter of high state taxes in NJ leading to high deductions might not apply here (although iirc Lincoln's taxes are pretty high rn because they tried to balance the budget last year after two years of having no budget whatsoever).

Tbh in real life Lincoln's economy would be in shambles; but this is Atlasia and actions do not carry consecuences so

Well if Lincoln's economy is in shambles, declaring economic warfare on it doesn't help.

$30,000 is more than a reasonable cap and would only impact really people making 250k or more.

[S019]

One thing I'm interested in regarding SALT is whether the in-game SALT includes regional taxes implicitly.

This was an issue I brought up a lot last year while I was DGM and encouraged some form of 'regionalization' of taxes so we wouldn't have to worry about the question of triple taxation and whatnot. Otherwise you have the situation where regions are assumed to be the in-game analog of states, yet the NPC states are assumed to still be operating largely as if the regions didn't exist.

The reason I bring this up is that if Lincoln's taxes are 'regionalized' (can't remember if they are or not) then the matter of high state taxes in NJ leading to high deductions might not apply here (although iirc Lincoln's taxes are pretty high rn because they tried to balance the budget last year after two years of having no budget whatsoever).

Tbh in real life Lincoln's economy would be in shambles; but this is Atlasia and actions do not carry consecuences so

Well if Lincoln's economy is in shambles, declaring economic warfare on it doesn't help.

$30,000 is more than a reasonable cap and would only impact really people making 250k or more.

No not really, much of North Jersey has average higher deductions than that:

https://patch.com/new-jersey/manasquan/report-says-trump-tax-cut-hurt-nj-heres-how

[thumb21]

OSR's amendment has been adopted.

[thumb21]

I have an amendment. It uses the same brackets as the current income tax which makes comparison a little bit easier.

A HOUSE BILL
To reduce Taxation on Small Buisnesses
Be it enacted in both Houses

Section I: Title

- This bill shall be called the Small Business Tax Cut Act

Section II: Tax Cut

- Small Businesses who currently pay taxes at the income level will pay taxes at these new rates

0-13k: 5%
13k-50k: 7%
50k-125k : 15%
125k-250k : 20%
250k-500k : 25%
500k-1mil : 34%
1mil + :  39%

0-13K      4%
13K-50k    9%
50K-130K   21%
130K-210K  28%
210K-413K  34%
413K-441K  36%
441K+      40.6%

- Small Businesses who currently pay taxes at the corporate level will continue to pay taxes at the corporate level

Section III: Removal of Deductions and Loopholes

- The Carried Interest Loophole will be eliminated by taxing carried interest as ordinary income rather than as capital gains.
- The State and Local Tax Deduction will be capped at $30,000
- The New Mortgage Deduction cap will be $750,000

Compared to the current tax rates it makes these changes:

0-13K      7% --> 4%
13K-50k    12% --> 9%
50K-130K   23% --> 21%
130K-210K  29% --> 28%
With the rest of the brackets, no change.

[S019]

I'm not exactly sure why the deductions are capped, but these rates are better than the old ones.

[OSR stands with Israel]

I will object on the basis of having the tax rates being so similar to individuals. Businesses needs separate tax rates as 100k in business income is widely different from having 100k in personal income.

[thumb21]

Amendment vote

72 hours

[thumb21]

Aye

[OSR stands with Israel]

Nay

[PPT Spiral]

Aye. We cannot have a regressive tax system for the working and middle class.

[RC (a la Frémont)]

I'm a little iffy on those numbers, might need some further adjustment.

Gonna go for a Nay for now

[OSR stands with Israel]

Aye. We cannot have a regressive tax system for the working and middle class.

It’s not at all regressive

[Elcaspar]

Aye.

[cinyc]

Nay. This needs work.

[Fmr. Representative Encke]

Nay

[Leinad]

Aye

[thumb21]

Amendment defeated

3-4-0-2