Eva Murry falsely accuses Biden of complimenting her breasts

[Bidenworth2020]

She had 7 friends corroborate her story and it's a complete lie? That calls into question the value of "corroborating witnesses" for future claims of sexual harassment and assault in politics. She got 7 people to lie for her.

These weren't really confirmed corroborators, though. They were just random friends of hers that they asked. In a court of law, they would be laughed off.

[Fuzzy Bear]

She had 7 friends corroborate her story and it's a complete lie? That calls into question the value of "corroborating witnesses" for future claims of sexual harassment and assault in politics. She got 7 people to lie for her.

This is the real issue.

[Bidenworth2020]

Why are they going out of their way to soil this man’s reputation over some stuff they know didn’t happen? This is heinous and filthy. These people should be ashamed of themselves.

People should be ashamed of themselves.  But Biden is reaping the harvest of the "Believe All Women" rhetoric.  Rhetoric that, at its heart, advocates abandoning the principles of the presumption of innocence and guilt being proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

Is it possible that Kavanaugh is guilty, but Biden is innocent?  Of course it is.  Is it possible that this is a dirty trick against Biden?  Of course it's possible.  Is it possible that Dr. Blasey Ford is lying about Kavanaugh?  That's possible as well.  The battle over Roe is for keeps, and I don't put anything past anyone on that score.  Is is also possible that Kavanaugh is innocent and Biden is guilty?  Yes, that's a possibility as well.  

In truth, the #MeToo movement is one of the most dangerous movements that has ever risen up to prominence because it erodes the concepts that prevent innocent people from being convicted of crimes.  It erodes the principle of Gary Dotson's imprisonment on a false rape charge is a worse event than Brett Kavanaugh or Joe Biden possibly committing sexual assaults and not being charged, let alone convicted.  Justice requires difficult tasks on the part of those seeking justice, and those tasks involve meeting standards of proof and allowing witnesses to be confronted by a defendant in Court.  Vengeance requires only misguided passion and zeal.  At it's heart, the #MeToo movement is about vengeance.  Such movements rarely evolve to where justice comes out of them.

I don't necessarily disagree with your post, but I still find your insistence on comparing the allegations of Reade and Blasey Ford to be exceptionally odd. They are fundamentally different cases with different evidence both for and against their validity.

[7,052,770]

She had 7 friends corroborate her story and it's a complete lie? That calls into question the value of "corroborating witnesses" for future claims of sexual harassment and assault in politics. She got 7 people to lie for her.

I believe they confirmed that Murry told them about it years ago, not that they personally heard Biden say this.

We'll probably never know whether Murry lied or mistook someone else from Biden - I doubt anyone's going to speak up and say that he was actually the one who said it.

[Figueira]

Honestly I think "She mistook someone else for Biden" is probably the most likely explanation here.

[The Mikado]

Re: Fuzzy, this is actually showing the robustness of the Me Too movement in some ways: really non credible allegations fall apart under the slightest scrutiny. This is like when O'Keefe tried to hire some woman to say Roy Moore molested her as a way of going "LOL the press will publish anything" and the Washington Post discredited it in no time.

This story here, the Eva Murry one, fell apart in 48 hours because it was transparent bulls**t that fell apart the second anyone examined it. This is the system working as intended.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

She had 7 friends corroborate her story and it's a complete lie? That calls into question the value of "corroborating witnesses" for future claims of sexual harassment and assault in politics. She got 7 people to lie for her.

Reminder that Ford couldn't even get 7 lol

[Fuzzy Bear]

Why are they going out of their way to soil this man’s reputation over some stuff they know didn’t happen? This is heinous and filthy. These people should be ashamed of themselves.

People should be ashamed of themselves.  But Biden is reaping the harvest of the "Believe All Women" rhetoric.  Rhetoric that, at its heart, advocates abandoning the principles of the presumption of innocence and guilt being proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

Is it possible that Kavanaugh is guilty, but Biden is innocent?  Of course it is.  Is it possible that this is a dirty trick against Biden?  Of course it's possible.  Is it possible that Dr. Blasey Ford is lying about Kavanaugh?  That's possible as well.  The battle over Roe is for keeps, and I don't put anything past anyone on that score.  Is is also possible that Kavanaugh is innocent and Biden is guilty?  Yes, that's a possibility as well.  

In truth, the #MeToo movement is one of the most dangerous movements that has ever risen up to prominence because it erodes the concepts that prevent innocent people from being convicted of crimes.  It erodes the principle of Gary Dotson's imprisonment on a false rape charge is a worse event than Brett Kavanaugh or Joe Biden possibly committing sexual assaults and not being charged, let alone convicted.  Justice requires difficult tasks on the part of those seeking justice, and those tasks involve meeting standards of proof and allowing witnesses to be confronted by a defendant in Court.  Vengeance requires only misguided passion and zeal.  At it's heart, the #MeToo movement is about vengeance.  Such movements rarely evolve to where justice comes out of them.

I don't necessarily disagree with your post, but I still find your insistence on comparing the allegations of Reade and Blasey Ford to be exceptionally odd. They are fundamentally different cases with different evidence both for and against their validity.

True enough.  A key similarity, however, is that the circumstances in neither case add up to Probable Cause that a crime was committed.  Further evidence may come to light, but as of now, neither case meets the Probable Cause standard.

[DrScholl]

Liars often will stick to their lie even when it is debunked. And O'Donnell's explanation is all over the place.




The window has moved out to 2009 now.

[Bidenworth2020]

Liars often will stick to their lie even when it is debunked. And O'Donnell's explanation is all over the place.




The window has moved out to 2009 now.

https://twitter.com/JamesDissent/status/1257021408158384128

LMAO

[Figueira]

She had 7 friends corroborate her story and it's a complete lie? That calls into question the value of "corroborating witnesses" for future claims of sexual harassment and assault in politics. She got 7 people to lie for her.

Reminder that Ford couldn't even get 7 lol

She didn't get 7 people to lie for her because she wasn't lying in the first place.

[GeorgiaModerate]

Does anyone really believe that if this had happened, and Christine O'Donnell was present and felt sick at it, that O'Donnell wouldn't have said something about it before now?

[Dr Oz Lost Party!]

Even Julie Swetnick has more credibility than Murry.

[7,052,770]

Seems unlikely that Biden would be going to political events in Delaware while he was VP. Can't say for certain, obviously. And Murry's insistence that she was 14 at the time makes it unlikely that she got the year wrong anyway.

So either she mistook the identity (though O'Donnell claiming to be there makes that less likely), or she lied (although it seems unlikely that O'Donnell would go along with that too).

Is it too contrived to speculate mistaken identity AND O'Donnell's claim to have witnessed it directly is a false memory because she's heard the story so many times intrafamily over the last 12 years?

[DrScholl]

Liars often will stick to their lie even when it is debunked. And O'Donnell's explanation is all over the place.




The window has moved out to 2009 now.

https://twitter.com/JamesDissent/status/1257021408158384128

LMAO

I guess the entire window has gone out the window. Pathetic.

[LimoLiberal]

I'm sorry, but I find it hilarious that Christine O'Donnell and her niece chose to center the false accusation on an event Biden apparently never attended, despite it being an event you'd think he'd attend. He always had a speech or a surgery or was campaigning in another state? I'm laughing.

[DrScholl]

I'm sorry. I find it absurd and hilarious that Christine O'Donnell and her niece chose to center the accusation on an event Biden apparently never attended, despite it being an event you'd think he'd attend. He always had a speech or a surgery or was campaigning in another state? I'm laughing.

O'Donnell isn't the smartest person. Plus they were probably counting on there being no evidence to verify that Biden was actually there or not, but clearly they were wrong.

[Figueira]

Seems unlikely that Biden would be going to political events in Delaware while he was VP. Can't say for certain, obviously. And Murry's insistence that she was 14 at the time makes it unlikely that she got the year wrong anyway.

So either she mistook the identity (though O'Donnell claiming to be there makes that less likely), or she lied (although it seems unlikely that O'Donnell would go along with that too).

Is it too contrived to speculate mistaken identity AND O'Donnell's claim to have witnessed it directly is a false memory because she's heard the story so many times intrafamily over the last 12 years?

Could have been mistaken identity on the part of Murry, and lying on the part of O'Donnell.

But I say that just because O'Donnell seems like the kind of person who would blatantly lie about it. Maybe Murry is too, but I obviously don't know anything about her beyond this.

[7,052,770]

Oh, possibility #3 - O'Donnell also mistook another man for Biden because she'd never met him before.

Pretty implausible, but she's not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

[Dr Oz Lost Party!]

Or how about both of them are just flat out lying?

[Fuzzy Bear]

Or how about both of them are just flat out lying?

You're vested in this narrative, and you'll say this, regardless of the facts.

And you may be right.  Both of them may, indeed, be flat out lying.  The solution to that is for Democrats to walk back the ridiculous aspects of the #MeToo movement.  It IS possible to bring sexual offenders to justice without trashing the principles of the defendant being presumed innocent, the right of a defendant to confront witnesses and put forth defenses, and the requirement that guilt be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.  Because it's better that Christine Blasey Ford be doubted and Brett Kavanaugh not be prosecuted that Cathleen Crowell Webb making a false allegation and Gary Dotson spending years in prison in Illinois.

[Frodo]

Or how about both of them are just flat out lying?

You're vested in this narrative, and you'll say this, regardless of the facts.

And you may be right.  Both of them may, indeed, be flat out lying.  The solution to that is for Democrats to walk back the ridiculous aspects of the #MeToo movement.  It IS possible to bring sexual offenders to justice without trashing the principles of the defendant being presumed innocent, the right of a defendant to confront witnesses and put forth defenses, and the requirement that guilt be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.  Because it's better that Christine Blasey Ford be doubted and Brett Kavanaugh not be prosecuted that Cathleen Crowell Webb making a false allegation and Gary Dotson spending years in prison in Illinois.

Roger Aisles, Bill O'Reilly, Jeffrey Epstein, Harvey Weinstein, Bill Cosby (I am sure I'm missing a few) -all were taken down by the #MeToo movement.  Do you doubt their guilt?

[DrScholl]

Or how about both of them are just flat out lying?

You're vested in this narrative, and you'll say this, regardless of the facts.

And you may be right.  Both of them may, indeed, be flat out lying.  The solution to that is for Democrats to walk back the ridiculous aspects of the #MeToo movement.  It IS possible to bring sexual offenders to justice without trashing the principles of the defendant being presumed innocent, the right of a defendant to confront witnesses and put forth defenses, and the requirement that guilt be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.  Because it's better that Christine Blasey Ford be doubted and Brett Kavanaugh not be prosecuted that Cathleen Crowell Webb making a false allegation and Gary Dotson spending years in prison in Illinois.

You should stop calling yourself a Christian, because you will back up any lie that could help a Republican get elected. The bible says the lying is wrong, but you seem to think otherwise. The dates do not match up, but you are determined to say "Oh, well if O'Donnell says it was another year, it was!". Biden was not at the dinners that O'Donnell says he was at, period.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

For the millionth time: We should have nominated Bernie.

Republicans would be throwing these same stories at Bernie, or Warren, or Pete, or anyone we nominated. They literally promised to do so in 2018 as revenge for Kavanaugh.

When did they promise to engage in slander and libel?

Or is it slander and libel when a Republican is accused, but "Standing Up For Women!" when is accused?  Do we Believe All Women?  Or do we disbelieve women who accuse Democrats because it's inconvenient and work to actively trash their reputations HONESTLY vet all accusations, and not put the confirming/debunking process solely in the hands of an incredibly biased media?

Keep in mind that I've not DIS-believed Blasey Ford, nor did I support Kavanaugh's confirmation.  Nor have I said that I believe Reade's accusations.  In a Court of Law, neither accusation would stand up.  But in a background interview for any number of sensitive positions, both accusations, and the evidence behind them, would be sufficient grounds to not hire the prospective applicant for law enforcement or any number of positions that would require a Security Clearance.

On this issue, the issue of who do we believe, the Democrats are exposed as having to backtrack on something they presented as axiomatic in 2018.  "Believe All Women"; that was the mantra.  That some Leftist Politician would step up to a mic and say "I believe Dr. Blasey Ford!" with the proper seriousness and go into a melodramatic spiel about victims being silenced and needing vocal advocacy is presented as EVIDENCE, when it is somwhere between ADVOCACY and PROPAGANDA.  Advocacy and Propoganda are not evidence, period.  There WAS evidence that Dr. Blasey Ford was telling the truth.  There was some evidence to place her truthfulness in doubt.  In the end, there really is not enough evidence to meet the Probable Cause standard against Kavanaugh.  But I wouldn't hire Kavanaugh to be a cop or a Federal Prosecutor.

I fail to see, however, how Tara Reade's accusation is any less credible than Dr. Blasey Ford's.  It's certainly in the same general "she said/he said" range, with reasons to believe and reasons to doubt for both.  Neither allegation meets a Probable Cause standard.  The ALLEGED CIRCUMSTANCES of Kavanaugh's alleged acts are more serious, but the alleged circumstances of Biden's alleged acts against Reade do rise to the level of a criminal offense, and were allegedly committed when Biden was a sitting Senator, whereas Kavanaugh's alleged actions were committed when he was 17 years old, not even a legal adult.

Perhaps what I would like to see is not Democrats throwing Biden to the wolves.  Biden deserves to be treated fairly, but so does Kavanaugh.  Kavanaugh is treated like a Sex Offender, whereas Biden is treated as a Victim of a Wrongful Accuser.  That's not right.  If we're going to consider the allegations against Kavanaugh as legitimate and the proper course of action to be to keep digging until there is enough evidence to impeach him, why should we do less in regard to allegations with the same level of overall credibility leveled against a man who, at this writing, is the person most likely to be President on January 21, 2021?

Kavanaugh is an attempted rapist who faced an extremely credible allegation supported by actual evidence which still has not been seriously investigated.  Biden was falsely accused of...what, exactly?  Rape?  Sexual Assault?  Sexual Harassment?  Kidnapping the Lindbergh baby?  Sorry, Reade’s changed the most fundamental aspects of her story so often that I can’t even keep track of what she’s accusing Biden of.  Her allegations are not even remotely credible and the so-called “evidence” has more holes in it than a wheel of Swiss cheese.  

The efforts by some Republicans to warp the meaning of “believe all women” and pretend there is any equivalency between Dr. Ford and Tara Reade’s allegations are simply not rooted in objective reality at best and a deliberate effort by morally-bankrupt bad-faith hacks to peddle a false rape allegation for political gain at worst.  There is no comparison and to equate this allegations is a slap in the face to every sex crime victim in America.

You may not be posting in bad-faith, Fuzzy, but you’re simply wrong on this one all the same.

[GeneralMacArthur]

She had 7 friends corroborate her story and it's a complete lie? That calls into question the value of "corroborating witnesses" for future claims of sexual harassment and assault in politics. She got 7 people to lie for her.

I said over and over again in the Tara Reade thread that random friends who weren't there don't count as "collaborating witnesses."  They are just people who say "yeah she told me that."  You could be lying to them.  They could be lying to the press.  You could have pressured them into "remembering" something that never happened.  It's like the least credible testimony imaginable and yet people were losing their minds over the LaCasse/Reade version.