Italian American vote

[𝕭𝖆𝖕𝖙𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖆 𝕸𝖎𝖓𝖔𝖑𝖆]

By the way, I don't believe that "the Italian American vote is not a thing anymore".
Many Italian Americans may consider themselves generic White Americans, but this should not stop the curiosity of trying to find out how the millions of Americans who describe their ancestry as Italian voted. (And the same goes for any other ancestry, be it German, Irish, Norwegian, Mexican etc. etc. etc.)

[Joe McCarthy Was Right]

By the way, I don't believe that "the Italian American vote is not a thing anymore".
Many Italian Americans may consider themselves generic White Americans, but this should not stop the curiosity of trying to find out how the millions of Americans who describe their ancestry as Italian voted. (And the same goes for any other ancestry, be it German, Irish, Norwegian, Mexican etc. etc. etc.)

Yeah, I think it's lazy to just assume they vote the same as ordinary whites. We know there is no generic Hispanic vote; Cubans don't vote like Mexicans. There clearly is a "Dutch" vote.

[𝕭𝖆𝖕𝖙𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖆 𝕸𝖎𝖓𝖔𝖑𝖆]

By the way, I don't believe that "the Italian American vote is not a thing anymore".
Many Italian Americans may consider themselves generic White Americans, but this should not stop the curiosity of trying to find out how the millions of Americans who describe their ancestry as Italian voted. (And the same goes for any other ancestry, be it German, Irish, Norwegian, Mexican etc. etc. etc.)

Yeah, I think it's lazy to just assume they vote the same as ordinary whites. We know there is no generic Hispanic vote; Cubans don't vote like Mexicans. There clearly is a "Dutch" vote.

Your response is bad because there are no "ordinary whites".
There are White voters, and a subsection of them that is Italian American voters.
Of course every ancestry group votes differently from each other, and when you put them all together you get an average that is different from each individual component.

[Joe McCarthy Was Right]

By the way, I don't believe that "the Italian American vote is not a thing anymore".
Many Italian Americans may consider themselves generic White Americans, but this should not stop the curiosity of trying to find out how the millions of Americans who describe their ancestry as Italian voted. (And the same goes for any other ancestry, be it German, Irish, Norwegian, Mexican etc. etc. etc.)

Yeah, I think it's lazy to just assume they vote the same as ordinary whites. We know there is no generic Hispanic vote; Cubans don't vote like Mexicans. There clearly is a "Dutch" vote.

Your response is bad because there are no "ordinary whites".
There are White voters, and a subsection of them that is Italian American voters.
Of course every ancestry group votes differently from each other, and when you put them all together you get an average that is different from each individual component.

Actually I was agreeing with you. Someone in this thread implied there are "generic white people." When I wrote "ordinary" I was misquoting them.

[𝕭𝖆𝖕𝖙𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖆 𝕸𝖎𝖓𝖔𝖑𝖆]

By the way, I don't believe that "the Italian American vote is not a thing anymore".
Many Italian Americans may consider themselves generic White Americans, but this should not stop the curiosity of trying to find out how the millions of Americans who describe their ancestry as Italian voted. (And the same goes for any other ancestry, be it German, Irish, Norwegian, Mexican etc. etc. etc.)

Yeah, I think it's lazy to just assume they vote the same as ordinary whites. We know there is no generic Hispanic vote; Cubans don't vote like Mexicans. There clearly is a "Dutch" vote.

Your response is bad because there are no "ordinary whites".
There are White voters, and a subsection of them that is Italian American voters.
Of course every ancestry group votes differently from each other, and when you put them all together you get an average that is different from each individual component.

Actually I was agreeing with you. Someone in this thread implied there are "generic white people." When I wrote "ordinary" I was misquoting them.

Aaah fine.

Or at least, there is a generic White vote as long as you put all White voters together in it. If you try to exclude some people from the definition, you may get the White non-Jewish vote, the White Catholic vote, the White non-Hispanic vote, the WASP vote or what not, but certainly it is not "generic White" anymore.

[Alcibiades]

Traditionally in NY, Italians were more Republican as they resented the Irish control of the Democratic machine, albeit not particularly conservative e.g. Fiorello LaGuardia. After white flight, though, the dynamics definitely changed.

This from Michael Barone is quite interesting:

It was almost an odd-even phenomenon: in any given metropolitan area, the native Protestants tended to vote Republican, the second group (almost always the Irish) Democratic, the next group Republican, the next Democratic, and so forth. Thus, Italians in New Haven tended to vote Republican, Italians in Cleveland Democratic. Poles in Buffalo were Republican, in Detroit Democratic. In Philadelphia, which developed a strong Republican machine, almost every group tended to vote Republican; in New York, with its strong Democratic machine, most groups tended to vote Democratic.

...

The New Deal changed the checkerboard voting patterns of these ethnic groups. Local loyalties were overshadowed by national issues, and all the groups became heavily Democratic by the late 1930s.

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

By the way, I don't believe that "the Italian American vote is not a thing anymore".
Many Italian Americans may consider themselves generic White Americans, but this should not stop the curiosity of trying to find out how the millions of Americans who describe their ancestry as Italian voted. (And the same goes for any other ancestry, be it German, Irish, Norwegian, Mexican etc. etc. etc.)

Yeah, I think it's lazy to just assume they vote the same as ordinary whites. We know there is no generic Hispanic vote; Cubans don't vote like Mexicans. There clearly is a "Dutch" vote.

Your response is bad because there are no "ordinary whites".
There are White voters, and a subsection of them that is Italian American voters.
Of course every ancestry group votes differently from each other, and when you put them all together you get an average that is different from each individual component.

Actually I was agreeing with you. Someone in this thread implied there are "generic white people." When I wrote "ordinary" I was misquoting them.

In that case, how do you describe the overwhelming majority of American whites who are so ethnically mixed that categorizing them becomes impossible? Most whites don't have parents of the same ethnic group, let alone grandparents and great-grandparents. At some point, people just become ethnic White American.

[lfromnj]

By the way, I don't believe that "the Italian American vote is not a thing anymore".
Many Italian Americans may consider themselves generic White Americans, but this should not stop the curiosity of trying to find out how the millions of Americans who describe their ancestry as Italian voted. (And the same goes for any other ancestry, be it German, Irish, Norwegian, Mexican etc. etc. etc.)

Yeah, I think it's lazy to just assume they vote the same as ordinary whites. We know there is no generic Hispanic vote; Cubans don't vote like Mexicans. There clearly is a "Dutch" vote.

Your response is bad because there are no "ordinary whites".
There are White voters, and a subsection of them that is Italian American voters.
Of course every ancestry group votes differently from each other, and when you put them all together you get an average that is different from each individual component.

Actually I was agreeing with you. Someone in this thread implied there are "generic white people." When I wrote "ordinary" I was misquoting them.

In that case, how do you describe the overwhelming majority of American whites who are so ethnically mixed that categorizing them becomes impossible? Most whites don't have parents of the same ethnic group, let alone grandparents and great-grandparents. At some point, people just become ethnic White American.

Simple, it's by working hard and valuing timeliness. Also being objective. That's white culture.

[DrScholl]

White people are not the only people in this country that work hard, but whatever you want to believe. That aside, I've seen data that shows that Italian-Americans are less Republican than German-Americans, but much more Republican than Irish-Americans. Many Irish-Americans and Italian-Americans have maintained attachment to their culture through the generations, whereas German-Americans are mostly distanced from it.

[𝕭𝖆𝖕𝖙𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖆 𝕸𝖎𝖓𝖔𝖑𝖆]

By the way, I don't believe that "the Italian American vote is not a thing anymore".
Many Italian Americans may consider themselves generic White Americans, but this should not stop the curiosity of trying to find out how the millions of Americans who describe their ancestry as Italian voted. (And the same goes for any other ancestry, be it German, Irish, Norwegian, Mexican etc. etc. etc.)

Yeah, I think it's lazy to just assume they vote the same as ordinary whites. We know there is no generic Hispanic vote; Cubans don't vote like Mexicans. There clearly is a "Dutch" vote.

Your response is bad because there are no "ordinary whites".
There are White voters, and a subsection of them that is Italian American voters.
Of course every ancestry group votes differently from each other, and when you put them all together you get an average that is different from each individual component.

Actually I was agreeing with you. Someone in this thread implied there are "generic white people." When I wrote "ordinary" I was misquoting them.

In that case, how do you describe the overwhelming majority of American whites who are so ethnically mixed that categorizing them becomes impossible? Most whites don't have parents of the same ethnic group, let alone grandparents and great-grandparents. At some point, people just become ethnic White American.

By White American!!!
And there is even an ancestry category for people who do not identify with any European ancestry in the Census: American! (Usually ticked by people of Scotch-Irish and English descent, mostly in the South and the Appalachians)
But the overwhelming majority of White Americans, despite having ancestors from many different European countries, identify with one specific European ancestry on the Census, and I take their word on that.
Who are we to say that the 9% of people who ticked the Italian ancestry box in Cuyahoga County, OH are more or less Italian American (or more or less "generic White") than the 35% who ticked that box in Revere, Massachusetts? Or the 8% who ticked it in Broward County, FL?

[King of Kensington]

Italian single ancestry is more common in the Northeast, particularly in the New York area, than elsewhere and enclaves still exist.  Outside the Northeast it's harder to really isolate the Italian American vote.

[Badger]

By the way, I don't believe that "the Italian American vote is not a thing anymore".
Many Italian Americans may consider themselves generic White Americans, but this should not stop the curiosity of trying to find out how the millions of Americans who describe their ancestry as Italian voted. (And the same goes for any other ancestry, be it German, Irish, Norwegian, Mexican etc. etc. etc.)

Yeah, I think it's lazy to just assume they vote the same as ordinary whites. We know there is no generic Hispanic vote; Cubans don't vote like Mexicans. There clearly is a "Dutch" vote.

Your response is bad because there are no "ordinary whites".
There are White voters, and a subsection of them that is Italian American voters.
Of course every ancestry group votes differently from each other, and when you put them all together you get an average that is different from each individual component.

Actually I was agreeing with you. Someone in this thread implied there are "generic white people." When I wrote "ordinary" I was misquoting them.

In that case, how do you describe the overwhelming majority of American whites who are so ethnically mixed that categorizing them becomes impossible? Most whites don't have parents of the same ethnic group, let alone grandparents and great-grandparents. At some point, people just become ethnic White American.

Simple, it's by working hard and valuing timeliness. Also being objective. That's white culture.

Wow. So not valuing hard work or timeliness, and a failure to look at things objectively, is non-white culture? Please answer.

(grabs popcorn)

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

By the way, I don't believe that "the Italian American vote is not a thing anymore".
Many Italian Americans may consider themselves generic White Americans, but this should not stop the curiosity of trying to find out how the millions of Americans who describe their ancestry as Italian voted. (And the same goes for any other ancestry, be it German, Irish, Norwegian, Mexican etc. etc. etc.)

Yeah, I think it's lazy to just assume they vote the same as ordinary whites. We know there is no generic Hispanic vote; Cubans don't vote like Mexicans. There clearly is a "Dutch" vote.

Your response is bad because there are no "ordinary whites".
There are White voters, and a subsection of them that is Italian American voters.
Of course every ancestry group votes differently from each other, and when you put them all together you get an average that is different from each individual component.

Actually I was agreeing with you. Someone in this thread implied there are "generic white people." When I wrote "ordinary" I was misquoting them.

In that case, how do you describe the overwhelming majority of American whites who are so ethnically mixed that categorizing them becomes impossible? Most whites don't have parents of the same ethnic group, let alone grandparents and great-grandparents. At some point, people just become ethnic White American.

Simple, it's by working hard and valuing timeliness. Also being objective. That's white culture.

Wow. So not valuing hard work or timeliness, and a failure to look at things objectively, is non-white culture? Please answer.

(grabs popcorn)

He's obviously making reference to that ridiculous Smithsonian graphic.

[King of Kensington]

Chicago Italians 2020:

https://www.facebook.com/watch/live/?v=294100068312115&ref=watch_permalink

(I was only able to get through the first two)

[lfromnj]

By the way, I don't believe that "the Italian American vote is not a thing anymore".
Many Italian Americans may consider themselves generic White Americans, but this should not stop the curiosity of trying to find out how the millions of Americans who describe their ancestry as Italian voted. (And the same goes for any other ancestry, be it German, Irish, Norwegian, Mexican etc. etc. etc.)

Yeah, I think it's lazy to just assume they vote the same as ordinary whites. We know there is no generic Hispanic vote; Cubans don't vote like Mexicans. There clearly is a "Dutch" vote.

Your response is bad because there are no "ordinary whites".
There are White voters, and a subsection of them that is Italian American voters.
Of course every ancestry group votes differently from each other, and when you put them all together you get an average that is different from each individual component.

Actually I was agreeing with you. Someone in this thread implied there are "generic white people." When I wrote "ordinary" I was misquoting them.

In that case, how do you describe the overwhelming majority of American whites who are so ethnically mixed that categorizing them becomes impossible? Most whites don't have parents of the same ethnic group, let alone grandparents and great-grandparents. At some point, people just become ethnic White American.

Simple, it's by working hard and valuing timeliness. Also being objective. That's white culture.

Wow. So not valuing hard work or timeliness, and a failure to look at things objectively, is non-white culture? Please answer.

(grabs popcorn)

He's obviously making reference to that ridiculous Smithsonian graphic.

Damn cath ruining my joke.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

By the way, I don't believe that "the Italian American vote is not a thing anymore".
Many Italian Americans may consider themselves generic White Americans, but this should not stop the curiosity of trying to find out how the millions of Americans who describe their ancestry as Italian voted. (And the same goes for any other ancestry, be it German, Irish, Norwegian, Mexican etc. etc. etc.)

Yeah, I think it's lazy to just assume they vote the same as ordinary whites. We know there is no generic Hispanic vote; Cubans don't vote like Mexicans. There clearly is a "Dutch" vote.

Your response is bad because there are no "ordinary whites".
There are White voters, and a subsection of them that is Italian American voters.
Of course every ancestry group votes differently from each other, and when you put them all together you get an average that is different from each individual component.

Actually I was agreeing with you. Someone in this thread implied there are "generic white people." When I wrote "ordinary" I was misquoting them.

In that case, how do you describe the overwhelming majority of American whites who are so ethnically mixed that categorizing them becomes impossible? Most whites don't have parents of the same ethnic group, let alone grandparents and great-grandparents. At some point, people just become ethnic White American.

Simple, it's by working hard and valuing timeliness. Also being objective. That's white culture.

Wow. So not valuing hard work or timeliness, and a failure to look at things objectively, is non-white culture? Please answer.

(grabs popcorn)

He's obviously making reference to that ridiculous Smithsonian graphic.

Damn cath ruining my joke.

I took no pleasure in Badger's apparent belief that he had "got ya" and stepped in. In retrospect I should have let it play out. I'm sorry, little one.

[King of Kensington]

Italian American population by metropolitan area

New York  2,620,000  13.1%
Philadelphia  830,000  13.7%
Boston  666,000  14.1%
Chicago  659,000  6.9%
Los Angeles  393,000  3%
Pittsburgh  383,000  16.3%
Miami  311,000  5.3%
Detroit  273,000  6.3%
Washington  268,000  4.5%
Providence  238,000  14.8%
San Francisco  237,000  5.2%
Tampa  222,000  7.6%
Cleveland  205,000  9.9%
Phoenix  204,000  4.5%
Hartford  199,000  16.5%
Buffalo  188,000  16.6%
New Haven  185,000  21.4%
Rochester  177,000  16.4%
Baltimore  175,000  6.3%
Bridgeport  159,000  16.9%

[King of Kensington]

Views of NY Italians on immigration in their day vs. today:

https://www.lavocedinewyork.com/en/people/2019/04/24/are-italian-americans-racist-lets-talk-about-it/

[King of Kensington]

Looking at heavily Italian Howard Beach, Whitestone and southern half of Staten Island, 70%+ GOP. 

In the 60s in Franklin Square, Massapequa, Eastchester.

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

With Trump brining anti-italianx sentiment back into the national discourse with his vicious attack on Italian American political icon Ron Desantis as "meatball ron" reigniting long dormant bigotry I expect the vote to swing heavily democrat.

[𝕭𝖆𝖕𝖙𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖆 𝕸𝖎𝖓𝖔𝖑𝖆]

Huh, when I originally posted in this thread I'd been on the forum for just one month. My posting style back then was so embarrassing, Jesus.

Anyway, I wonder if Italian Americans whose immigrant background goes back to the - smaller - post-WW2 wave are more or less Republican than those with more distant ancestors.

[King of Kensington]

Huh, when I originally posted in this thread I'd been on the forum for just one month. My posting style back then was so embarrassing, Jesus.

Anyway, I wonder if Italian Americans whose immigrant background goes back to the - smaller - post-WW2 wave are more or less Republican than those with more distant ancestors.

Probably somewhat more R, as they're more heavily concentrated in the NYC area and more likely to live in areas of Italian concentration.

[King of Kensington]

2020 vote in select places

Saugus MA  51-48 D
Stoneham MA  61-38 D
Johnstown RI  54-45 R
North Providence RI  56-42 D
Cranston RI  56-42 D
Berlin CT  52-47 R
North Branford CT  55-43 R
East Haven CT  52-47 R
North Haven CT  51-48 R
Totowa NJ  59-40 R
Fairfield NJ  70-30 R
Cedar Grove NJ  53-46 R
East Hanover NJ  66-33 R
Hammonton NJ  60-39 R
Washington Township NJ  52-46 R
Old Forge PA  50-49 R

[TransfemmeGoreVidal]

Can't find much specfic data after 1984 (as the ''Italian American vote'' to the extent it exists has become less distinctive).  Some scattered data:

1960 (Kennedy):

National:  80%+

1964 (Johnson):

National:  76%

1968 (Humphrey):

National:  50%

1972 (Nixon):

New York State  68%
New Jersey  61%
Pennsylvania  53%
Ohio  52%

1976 (Carter):

National  56%
New York State  35%

1984 (Reagan)

National  61%

Source: Stefano Luconi, ''The Bumpy Road Toward Political Incorporation'' in The Routledge History of Italian Americans

I’m surprised that Kennedy got as much as 80% with Italians in 1960. He may have actually done better with them then the Irish as many Irish-Catholics in the New York area had already started voting Republican at the presidential level with Eisenhower and Nixon won Bay Ridge and Staten Island.

[King of Kensington]

Glazer and Moynihan, in Beyond the Melting Pot, mention how it was the votes of Jewish pharmacy students that put Kennedy over the top at Fordham University.  Otherwise the Fordham student body would have been on the record as opposing Kennedy's candidacy.