COVID-19 Megathread 5: The Trumps catch COVID-19

[lfromnj]

https://twitter.com/aravosis/status/1247638685652262912

This is part of the reason why Sweden is not going on total lockdown. Hard lockdown just means it will come right back. Once Denmark and Norway come out of their hard lockdowns, they will start looking like Sweden. Until a vaccine is ready for widespread use, this is unavoidable.

But as usual, the English-language media will continue to bash Sweden as an insane, reckless, suicidal country.

Speaking with a honest discussion, is our current goal to flatten the curve or to stop the virus?
I wish the governments were more honest with us, It may be possible to get the virus almost completely eliminated but then it will just pop back up.

[lfromnj]

I'm absolutely livid about the meat processing plants bring forced back open. What protections will there be for the workers? Smithfield in Sioux Falls was already a major hotspot. Most people aren't willing to work meat processing plants, which is why many employee illegal immigrants as well. How are these places going to be staffed? There was no forethought or any real consideration put into this decision. Ugh.

Meat packing plants are actually the valid argument to that people would work those dirty jobs for a higher wage because that is what people did from the 1950s to the 1980s. Increased supply of labor both illegal and legal crashed the average wages of meatpacking jobs, Im not arguing against immigration for this reason as this also had the effect of keeping meat cheap for millions of Americans. This is a freeer market which is a good thing but  its absurd to deny higher wages wouldn't encourage other Americans to work these jobs.

https://fraser.stlouisfed.org/files/docs/publications/bls/bls_1677_1970.pdf

source: Meatpacking wages used to pay like $3.30 in 1970 or about 18 dollars per hour.

[lfromnj]

I'm absolutely livid about the meat processing plants bring forced back open. What protections will there be for the workers? Smithfield in Sioux Falls was already a major hotspot. Most people aren't willing to work meat processing plants, which is why many employee illegal immigrants as well. How are these places going to be staffed? There was no forethought or any real consideration put into this decision. Ugh.

Meat packing plants are actually the valid argument to that people would work those dirty jobs for a higher wage because that is what people did from the 1950s to the 1980s. Increased supply of labor both illegal and legal crashed the average wages of meatpacking jobs, Im not arguing against immigration for this reason as this also had the effect of keeping meat cheap for millions of Americans. This is a freeer market which is a good thing but  its absurd to deny higher wages wouldn't encourage other Americans to work these jobs.

I'm not sure this (bolded claim) is true in 2020 the same way it was true in 1960. The work in a meat packing plant hasn't gotten that much less physical demanding (whereas most other manual labor has, meaning packing jobs are relatively less attractive) and there are several cases where after ICE raids plant operators tried to fill in their open positions with domestic labor with poor retention. E.g., in Postville Iowa they trucked in unemployed people from Texas all the way to Ohio after a 2008 raid and most of them quit within four months; this was in the middle of the Recession when there weren't that many other places for these people to find work so it's not likely they quit because they found better pay elsewhere.

I will concede that it will be true in a current scenario that a firm literally can't afford to pay more at an individual plant because that would mean a rise in the sale cost (these plants in general have very low margins IIRC) so therefore if they raise wages and prices every other plant that still hires illegals/immigrants will still keep nearly the same price for their wholesale products . Anyway I find it absurd to demand higher wages for these immigrants such as more system checks and higher minimum wage instead of just at that point discourage immigration and let Americans work it. However keeping cheap labor is good for tens of millions of Americans overall as their meat is now much cheaper. If we go to the point of encouraging higher wages at these plants while still having a labor supply overflow it merely just causes higher meat prices and greater unemployment.

[lfromnj]

I'm absolutely livid about the meat processing plants bring forced back open. What protections will there be for the workers? Smithfield in Sioux Falls was already a major hotspot. Most people aren't willing to work meat processing plants, which is why many employee illegal immigrants as well. How are these places going to be staffed? There was no forethought or any real consideration put into this decision. Ugh.

Meat packing plants are actually the valid argument to that people would work those dirty jobs for a higher wage because that is what people did from the 1950s to the 1980s. Increased supply of labor both illegal and legal crashed the average wages of meatpacking jobs, Im not arguing against immigration for this reason as this also had the effect of keeping meat cheap for millions of Americans. This is a freeer market which is a good thing but  its absurd to deny higher wages wouldn't encourage other Americans to work these jobs.

I'm not sure this (bolded claim) is true in 2020 the same way it was true in 1960. The work in a meat packing plant hasn't gotten that much less physical demanding (whereas most other manual labor has, meaning packing jobs are relatively less attractive) and there are several cases where after ICE raids plant operators tried to fill in their open positions with domestic labor with poor retention. E.g., in Postville Iowa they trucked in unemployed people from Texas all the way to Ohio after a 2008 raid and most of them quit within four months; this was in the middle of the Recession when there weren't that many other places for these people to find work so it's not likely they quit because they found better pay elsewhere.

I will concede that it will be true in a current scenario that a firm literally can't afford to pay more at an individual plant because that would mean a rise in the sale cost (these plants in general have very low margins IIRC) so therefore if they raise wages and prices every other plant that still hires illegals/immigrants will still keep nearly the same price for their wholesale products . Anyway I find it absurd to demand higher wages for these immigrants such as more system checks and higher minimum wage instead of just at that point discourage immigration and let Americans work it. However keeping cheap labor is good for tens of millions of Americans overall as their meat is now much cheaper. If we go to the point of encouraging higher wages at these plants while still having a labor supply overflow it merely just causes higher meat prices and greater unemployment.

My point was a little bit larger than applying to a single firm elevating wages and facing disadvantage in a competitive market, but this really isn't my specialty so I'm not going to push the point too far.

We might not be looking at or responding to the same things but most of the outrage I am seeing about this (which I agree with) is at the lack of mandatory workplace protections and the liability waivers associated with the act. Obviously having a functioning food supply chain is essential work and invoking the DPA is warranted here but it's insane and inhumane to expect workers to work under these conditions, not have any requirements being put in place to keep them safe, and having the employers shielded from liability which also reduces the likelihood of meaningful safety improvements (which are obviously needed given the outbreaks we're seeing) implemented. Seems to me like getting some sort of mandatory OSHA safety rules is higher priority than higher wages. This is especially scary in areas without enforcement of distancing which let infected plant employees infect others in the community.

.I just mostly went off topic on OP's line that its impossible for Americans to work meatpacking jobs when they literally did a quarter century ago.

[lfromnj]

https://twitter.com/gobeheroes/status/1256813055947747329

[lfromnj]

Looking at the CDC demographic breakdown of covid deaths makes me think the difference in death rate by gender has actually been significantly undercovered.

It would appear that men are at least twice as likely to die from the virus as women, once we adjust for age.

Men account for about 56% of covid deaths overall.  But the only reason that the gender breakdown is that close is that the death rate is so high among those 80 years or older, and there are far more women who are 80+ than men.

Among people under 65, men account for 70% of US covid deaths.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2020/03/feminism-womens-rights-coronavirus-covid19/608302/
Don't worry the real gender gap is being covered and the real victims are being covered!

[lfromnj]

https://www.npr.org/2020/05/15/856293764/french-drug-giant-sanofi-takes-heat-after-suggesting-u-s-may-get-1st-vaccine-acc
Great news for the US

[lfromnj]

https://twitter.com/CNN/status/1264980497849036801

lol

[lfromnj]

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/new-york-health-website-deletes-cuomos-order-on-nursing-homes

[lfromnj]

https://twitter.com/NPR/status/1267709439467020288

 these bullsh**t health experts.
Del Tachi was 100% in calling our their absolute fakeness.

[lfromnj]

https://mobile.twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1268885282172145670

The rapid, V-shape recovery is here.  Hard to see unemployment above 8% by November (which is what it was in 2012).

I doubt it recovers that quickly, especially since the report says unemployment would be at 16% but 3% were misclassified. Also, 2012 saw the economy recovering in Obama's term vs 2020 where the economy got worse under Trump. Not comparable. 

If Trump can tout +1M new jobs every month until November, it's going to be a net electoral benefit to him.  This is the scenario Obama and other top Democrats are the most concerned about. 

They're not new jobs though. You can't go from 3% unemployment to 16% unemployment in a month and then gloat about the proceeding recovery the next month.

Btw whats the other Western country employment numbers? I would say that is the best metric to compare too.

[lfromnj]

https://twitter.com/DanScavino/status/1268999195295469570

And no one can even call him out and his supporters besides forumlurker.

[lfromnj]

https://twitter.com/ddiamond/status/1269019027805999106

You all laughed at Del Tachi saying that scientists could have personal or political motivations.

[lfromnj]

Nope as long as tens of thousands of people are protesting in the streets, anyone has the right to go to church.

[lfromnj]

https://mobile.twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1270351649043886088
Good job
https://mobile.twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1270358052265394176
We had a few extreme wingnuts in the GOP and most other Americans atleast partially complying.
Now we have a large group of disaffected people feeling shunned by the elite woke mob who tells them nothing is worth besides their own issues.

[lfromnj]

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/06/27/latest-on-covid19-in-mn

Look


Source from the article

Anyway looks like at least in MN that its more young people getting the cases.
And of course the article doesn't even the theory that protests could have caused part of this shift.

[lfromnj]

BBC: New swine flu strain with pandemic potential found in China.

I really hate this year.

sounds like it's time to start thinking about wiping China off the face of the planet ngl

No can we have a day on this thread without addiction for genocide?

[lfromnj]

What to make of this? To stem the worsening pandemic, the California Department of Public Health has temporarily banned singing and chanting in places of worship: https://krdo.com/news/national-world/2020/07/03/with-a-worsening-pandemic-california-bans-singing-in-places-of-worship/. Is this an overreach of government? Or is this an appropriate public health measure? What are we to say about it?

Considering they allowed the protests to occur without any hesitation, I feel it’s very hypocritical of CA to ban chanting in places of worship. Still, I get the logic and am not necessarily against it.

However any court should strike down further restrictions by California as it is choosing speeches they like.

[lfromnj]

https://mobile.twitter.com/vijayshekhar/status/1281626446503399424

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't he say there would be a vaccine "very soon" back in, like, February?

It's like repeatedly predicting a solar eclipse will happen soon.  Eventually it will be correct if you keep it up long enough.

I mean solar eclipses can be predicted for basically all eternity with the exact date and time.

[lfromnj]

Anyone can easily get or make a cloth mask

A face shield or goggles are different.