COVID-19 Megathread 5: The Trumps catch COVID-19

[jamestroll]

Larry Hogan just broke the backboard on this dunk:

https://twitter.com/GovLarryHogan/status/1252404969669488640

I was just about to post this.

Not all Republicans are bad. Larry Hogan is proof.

There are very few Republicans I would vote for now but he is absolutely  one of them.

His vote totals in Baltimore City and County were like a cameo of the past especially for the climate of 2018.

[jamestroll]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/u-n-warns-hunger-pandemic-amid-threats-coronavirus-economic-downturn-n1189326

Can we stop pretending that we will be all locked down for years and that it will be worth it past June?

I know most people on this forum come from households earning millions a year but...

[jamestroll]

I know most people on this forum come from households earning millions a year but...

What on Earth gives you that impression?

Yeah, this is news to me. 

I don't think he was trying to be taken literally. This forum is disproportionally privileged though.

Exactly.  That's my point and I didnt mean millionaires literally lol.

But I am stunned that a large segment of this forum and general population think indefinite lockdowns for years are a logical choice. Those people are either wealthy, can work from home, elderly or do not need to work.

[jamestroll]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/u-n-warns-hunger-pandemic-amid-threats-coronavirus-economic-downturn-n1189326

Can we stop pretending that we will be all locked down for years and that it will be worth it past June?

I know most people on this forum come from households earning millions a year but...

Almost all of this article is about problems that will be much more prominent in the global south than the United States...

The areas in the US experiencing the most poverty and what is historically some of the worst health care in the country are experiencing some of the heaviest case loads and fatalities (reservations, urban centers, factories and processing plants staffed by immigrants and blue collar workers). In addition to having more comorbidities, people in these communities typically work manual or service jobs deemed essential. In other words, being "incentivized" to continue to participate in the labor force is making these people more sick than the white collar workers who can stay at home. Notably, the (astroturfed) "liberate" movements and TV pundits talking about reopening the economy don't have any representation from these communities.

Containing the virus versus keeping people fed is of course a false choice in the United States. This is why the social safety net exists. Just give people money. We already do this in several forms; just temporarily scale it up for a few months.

As the economy continues to deteriorate people from all sectors will begin to be laid off due to lack of demand.

And we are doing everything atrociously right now. Georgia, Tennessee and Texas are opening up prematurely which will only cause the spread of the virus to accelerate. We just are not ready yet.

We can't say we will temporarily scale up safety nets for a few months when it will be years with the way we are operating this entire crisis. We are putting ourselves in a box in which we will have to wait for a vaccine.

[jamestroll]

Despite my griping at people about wanting the economy closed indefinitely until every last human being and now animal** has a vaccine against coronavirus I want to state that I am dead set opposed to what Brian Kemp is doing right now.

Individual states opening up the economy to soon and aggressively right now could pro long this further. When I was hoping for a strict lock down for a few months to get the virus under control start phased reopening in late June.

[jamestroll]

Some are saying we may have to cancel elections due to COVID 19 worries.

We can not constitutionally do that. But if we must... let's have a grand compromise.

Kick Trump out of the white house and install Larry Hogan as President.

https://twitter.com/FaceTheNation/status/1254768468232036352

https://twitter.com/GovLarryHogan/status/1252297144754716672

This is what real leadership looks like!

[jamestroll]

So question for the people who want the following:

Complete lock down and force everyone to stay in their homes and have all business closed until every last human and animal on the planet is vaccinated.

What exactly are your plans to deal with the inevitable problems that will come with doing that for two years?  

Which would include:

Mental issues. Suicides and depression will spike up.

Mass unemployment: Remember that infinite debt is a very bad idea.

Mass homelessness and starvation.

Untreated heart attacks, rise in obesity, etc.

It is scary that many people are willing to allow all that to happen for 2 years over this virus!

And now we are politically correct to the point in which we can not even criticize the practices of some upper class consumers in South China nor can we criticize the Chinese government.

I even saw someone suggest that we all wear biohazard suits going forward.

What is wrong with people?

[jamestroll]

Now they are saying we may be dealing with this for several more years. Are we still planning to shut the economy down into the mid 2020s now?

And after that I bet we will shut the economy down every winter due to seasonal cold and flu until 2030 when we are all required to wear hazmat suits everywhere.

[jamestroll]

Now they are saying we may be dealing with this for several more years. Are we still planning to shut the economy down into the mid 2020s now?

And after that I bet we will shut the economy down every winter due to seasonal cold and flu until 2030 when we are all required to wear hazmat suits everywhere.

We're not. We'll figure out a way to minimize risks and get back to our social and economic lives. Probably not in the exact same way as before, but a lot better than the current situation. Right now we need some time to study the virus and prepare for post lockdown management of the pandemic. Please don't think that "we need lockdowns now" and "the virus is not going away" means "we need lockdowns in perpetuity".

I am opposed to all the states reopening up next week. But right now it is like we have no plan on what to do to reopen the economy effectively.

Only thing I see is people proposing indefinite debt.

[jamestroll]

We are just opening up states with terrible planning based on arbitrary dates.

How is this going to turn out well?

[jamestroll]

This week will literally be the worst news week of my life.

We should have taken action in January and Feburary not the end of March.

Now the federal guidelines are expiring? We didn't we have a nation wide lock down earlier?

A second spike is now at a 100% chance. We have no way around it. We are headed to a second great depression.

[jamestroll]

I see nothing but bad about to happen to us! Nothing but bad! It will all be ing bad.

We are prematurely opening and now we will head into a great depression.

Why are we celebrating reopenings??

[jamestroll]

I am going to decide I will just relax about the easing of restrictions. Most people are voluntarily practicing social distancing. Airlines are requiring masks. Gyms and restaurants will be spaced out. Even my place of work has a smart plan in place for business returning.

And if there is a second wave in the fall after a slow down in summer we will be much better prepared to deal with it hopefully and most vulnerable people know to be extra cautious. It is not like nursing homes will allow outside visitors for the foreseeable futre.

And if there is a spike in the south later this month it is likely governors would immediately tighten restrictions again.

We can be individually smart and slowly reopen the economy again.

[jamestroll]

Can we stop pretending this is a seasonal virus?

It is more about density. Normally dense cities and urbanism is good but not for a pandemic!

[jamestroll]

I am not a fan of Pritzker's regions at all. The collar counties should be a seperate region from Cook County.

And most of the rest of the state is ready to open up.

[jamestroll]

I do not care that Covid-19 is spreading rapidly.

We. Must. Keep. The. Economy. Open.  At. Any. Cost.

The last lockdown resulted in no coherent plan to reopen the economy.

[jamestroll]

I do not care that Covid-19 is spreading rapidly.

We. Must. Keep. The. Economy. Open.  At. Any. Cost.

The last lockdown resulted in no coherent plan to reopen the economy.

Why do people keep acting like this has to be extremes in one way or the other? We can keep the economy open (mostly) but still be safe with distancing, masks, etc.

The problem is that many states just flung the entire economy open like nothing happened and with no restrictions and THAT is the problem, because people can't be bothered to do the f**king bare minimum.

However, for you to say that you 'don't care' that it's spreading rapidly and thus killing more people is incredibly insane to me. Not only that, but speak for yourself. Some states did NOT have a coherent plan, but some, like PA where i live, HAVE had one. And that's why we've been able to mitigate cases actually pretty damn well up to this point.

I would like now for states to either revert back to a previous phase or put brakes on progressing into new phases of reopening. At this point it would be the best way to avoid another shut down. Which has to be the absolutely last resort.

I am not a mask nazi but I strongly recommend everyone wears masks going forward. The same people who are anti-mask are the same people screaming to keep the economy opened.

But up to me no more moving into new phases for now.

[jamestroll]

I am adamant that shutting the economy is not the answer. But we have a reached a point in which travel to and from Texas, Florida and Arizona should be banned for 30 to 45 days as well as stay at home orders for all three states.

[jamestroll]

California re-instituting bar, restaurant, movie theater, and other closures. Other states seeing spiking cases would be wise to follow suit swiftly.

https://twitter.com/GavinNewsom/status/1282752861835649024

Ugh.  California locked down hard and early.  And cases kept rising all throughout the lockdown. Why keep repeating a strategy that has already proven to be a failure, without any real endgame in mind?  This is all reminiscent of the Vietnam War, or the Iraq War "surge".

The lockdown worked. We weren’t hit hard like other states such as NY, NJ, WA or LA. Then Newsom eased restrictions and cases recently started to spike because of it. Restrictions should have never been lifted.

If cases keep rising under the lockdown, how do you know when to end or ease the lockdown?
A lockdown isn't working if you have to stay under lockdown indefinitely.

Cases keep rising because it’s impossible to cut human contact. People will ignore the lockdown. People will still go out to get groceries and other necessities. Some don’t wear masks when doing so. People are still coming in (and out) of the state. Saying “cases still went up!” as an argument for why lockdowns don’t work is pretty weak.

It sounds like you are conceding that lockdowns don’t work in reality.
So if you institute a lockdown and for whatever reason, cases keep rising, is that specific lockdown working?  How do you know when to end it?

My good dude, I just said in an earlier post that the lockdown worked. Our hospitals were not overrun with sick and dying patients back in March/April and cases and deaths were low, especially compared to other states that were seriously hurting (NY/NJ/LA/MI/WA). I got a kidney stone in late April and was able to go to the emergency room and not wait because our hospital was not stressed and at capacity. The states that are seriously hurting now put no safety guidelines in place, or did so too late and now their hospitals are nearly or at capacity.

I also didn't say the cases still rose for "whatever reason". I laid it out pretty clearly. It's not as black and white as "lockdowns are ineffective because people are still getting sick when they're in place".

OK, but you still didn’t answer my question.  When should California have ended the lockdown?

He is not going to have any coherent answer on that. The pro-lockdown crowd just expects everyone to stay in their homes until every single living organism on planet earth has a coronavirus vaccine. And they are completely dismissive of the negative side effects of that such as mass evictions, starvation, increasing national debt, more mental health crisises, etc. Since their side does not care about those issues I have decided that I do not care if some people die over this. Too bad.

And I am not even advocating that we have places like Disney World open. We still need to maintain social strict social distancing, wear masks, and live life carefully under this reality.

[jamestroll]

California re-instituting bar, restaurant, movie theater, and other closures. Other states seeing spiking cases would be wise to follow suit swiftly.

https://twitter.com/GavinNewsom/status/1282752861835649024

Ugh.  California locked down hard and early.  And cases kept rising all throughout the lockdown. Why keep repeating a strategy that has already proven to be a failure, without any real endgame in mind?  This is all reminiscent of the Vietnam War, or the Iraq War "surge".

The lockdown worked. We weren’t hit hard like other states such as NY, NJ, WA or LA. Then Newsom eased restrictions and cases recently started to spike because of it. Restrictions should have never been lifted.

If cases keep rising under the lockdown, how do you know when to end or ease the lockdown?
A lockdown isn't working if you have to stay under lockdown indefinitely.

Cases keep rising because it’s impossible to cut human contact. People will ignore the lockdown. People will still go out to get groceries and other necessities. Some don’t wear masks when doing so. People are still coming in (and out) of the state. Saying “cases still went up!” as an argument for why lockdowns don’t work is pretty weak.

Yes, basically full on lockdowns accomplish nothing positive.

[jamestroll]

I will say it loudly and proudly..

Until someone comes up with a coherent plan and address my concerns of long term lock downs:

I do not care if old people die from covid 19!

[jamestroll]

I will say it loudly and proudly..

Until someone comes up with a coherent plan and address my concerns of long term lock downs:

I do not care if old people die from covid 19!

*plonk*

Yes I know it sounds harsh and I do not mean that in a literal sense.

But the only solution I see anyone propose are 100% full lock downs which only delay the inevitable.

I know what does work are masks, social distancing, and good hygienic practices

Its not realistic to have us locked down for several years. We can keep most of the economy operating with modified business practices.  No large events of course .

[jamestroll]

I will say it loudly and proudly..

Until someone comes up with a coherent plan and address my concerns of long term lock downs:

I do not care if old people die from covid 19!

Talk about lack of empathy. None of those four things are even things explicitly caused by lock downs.

We do not have to shut the economy down to practice social distancing! We have proven effective methods to slow the spread that should be common sense.

Of course I do not want people dying of covid19. I am just frustrated  now that the only solution being thrown out there are full on lockdowns.

Florida should be placed under a stay at home order but they put themselves in this mess

[jamestroll]

No I do not want anyone to die of covid.

But why does everything down to common sense MASKS have to be political now??

I went into rural Virginia and you could literally tell if someone if a Republican or Democrat just by whether they were wearing a mask or not.

I retract my harsh statement.

[jamestroll]

I will say it loudly and proudly..

Until someone comes up with a coherent plan and address my concerns of long term lock downs:

I do not care if old people die from covid 19!

Talk about lack of empathy. None of those four things are even things explicitly caused by lock downs.

We do not have to shut the economy down to practice social distancing! We have proven effective methods to slow the spread that should be common sense.

Of course I do not want people dying of covid19. I am just frustrated  now that the only solution being thrown out there are full on lockdowns.

Florida should be placed under a stay at home order but they put themselves in this mess

You need to realize the economy can't function with a severe public health crisis. What's the use of opening shops, bars and restaurants if nobody goes there because people are either too sick or afraid to get infected?

I am opposed to stay at home orders. There will be inevitable some economic collapse with businesses providing modified services but we cant mandate people are trapped inside their homes for years and years. And yes it will literally be years until this is resolved.