COVID-19 Megathread 5: The Trumps catch COVID-19

[Koharu]

anyone else wanting to go out and join one of these protests against the quarantine? heard there was one in Nashville today, should have gone but I was tied up in Knox :<

obvious troll is trolling. reported.

He isn’t a troll, he just is greatly uninformed as to the severity of the crisis.

I mean, I'm greatly informed as to the severity that this crises poses to young people who are just starting out their careers. My wife and I are lucky that we are "essential employees" but I worry about all the other people our age just starting out and what this hysteria has done to the economy.

I'm honestly not worried about the elderly and immunocompromised. They can quarantine of their own accord, if they wish, but at least where I live, it seems like the older people are the least likely to do so, so I mean that's on them.

Like I said, if I die I die lol it's fine not like I care.

I'm not immunocompromised, just have high blood pressure. I'm doing everything I can to stay home, but I still have to go buy groceries. I could die from this even though I'm only 33. Since you're not willing to be cautious, you'll likely pick it up, and your indiscretion makes it more likely that I'll get it when I'm out getting groceries. My husband is also not immunocompromised, but he has asthma. He would be more at risk from dying from this, too. He's 35.


Thanks for making it even more dangerous for us to get groceries and for me to have to gamble with our lives when my library job reopens because we'll be able to do curbside pickup. But because of people like you, I can't trust that I can't be safe even in a mostly closed library and will have to decide between a paycheck and my life.

[Koharu]

Georgia's reopening so I'll just be resigning myself to my inevitable death as my health isn't great.

Yeah. My stepdad is living there now. He has COPD and was a smoker most of his life (12 years since his last one though!) and is in his late 60s. I don't see this going well for him.

Stay as safe as you can, Hammy.

[Koharu]

Trump is suspending ALL Immigration to the U.S

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1252418369170501639?s=21

He should have done this back in March.

No.

Immigration can be done safely, with new arrivals going through quarantine processes.

This is an awful decision. Trump has realized he can use this crisis to do what he's always wanted to do and people won't fight him on it.

Stopping immigration won't help this crisis. But it "sounds good," so he'll be able to get away with it. Ugh.

[Koharu]

Trump is suspending ALL Immigration to the U.S

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1252418369170501639?s=21

He should have done this back in March.

No.

Immigration can be done safely, with new arrivals going through quarantine processes.

This is an awful decision. Trump has realized he can use this crisis to do what he's always wanted to do and people won't fight him on it.

Stopping immigration won't help this crisis. But it "sounds good," so he'll be able to get away with it. Ugh.

On bolded-

1- At a time of limited medical staff and other resources, why expend assets on quarantining prospective immigrants?

2- immigrants tend to flock towards the hotbeds, like NYC. Are you certain that someone can come here from abroad and, from day 1, be able to observe social distancing guidelines and such? Or would immigrants, in their giddiness to be here (which is understandable), feel an irresistible urge to go exploring? Is it even possible for immigrants to just come here and stay home? Won’t they need to go looking for housing, stores, work, etc?

3- even if you find the resources and staff, and you get a strong sense that immigrants will stay home, why take the chance? Why risk it? Why not play it safe?

To call it an “awful decision” is just unfair.

As said above, immigrants usually have to have sponsors who have to have the income to take care of the immigrants for several months.

It would also be immigration staff enforcing the quarantine, not medical staff.

Why would someone from a different country not be able to abide by quarantine protocols for two weeks? The US is the country song the worst at this pandemic.

The reason to "risk it" is because this is something that Trump has wanted to do since he came into office. There's no guarantee he'll return things to normal once this is over. Unlike state lockdowns, there's not a lot of other authorities powerful enough to force the change when things return to normal. In addition, people moving here and then continuing life and abiding by social distancing shouldn't pose any additional risk.

[Koharu]

Hasn't it been about a week since NY instated their most stringing requirements, including mandating masks? I see that as having an effect more so than herd immunity at this point.

[Koharu]

We're not going to be doing this for years.

Researchers are learning everything they can about this virus. As we learn more, we can adjust our response. In addition, life will carry on. Humans are extremely adaptable and if this continues to be a threat to the degree it currently is, we will find ways to feed people and get people working again, even if it doesn't look the same as it once did

If nothing else, we'll start producing hazmat suits and people will start wearing them at all times when outside their homes. We'll be like the Quarians from Mass Effect. I know this seems ridiculous, but humans are flipping ingenious and will likely figure out something much better than what I've laid out here.

[Koharu]

Here's a good question - How do these protest to re-open fit in with the Republican saying "All Lives Matter"?

"Sick and old people should just stay home."

[Koharu]

Is there any hope that plasma will be a treatment?

The University of Wisconsin is researching it but I haven't heard any results.

[Koharu]

SEIU Healthcare Wisconsin organized the placement of 1,300 candles on the Capitol steps Thursday, April 23, 2020, in recognition of every person in Wisconsin who has been hospitalized with COVID-19.

From an article about today's protest and last night's counter protest.

Here are two more pictures of the counter-protest, taken by the same photographer.

[Koharu]

Apparently the federal government is essentially running a blockade on PPE, making it difficult for states and municipalities to get the supplies they need.

Here's a letter from the New England Journal of Medicine, and I'll share a few bits from it:

Deals, some bizarre and convoluted, and many involving large sums of money, have dissolved at the last minute when we were outbid or outmuscled, sometimes by the federal government. Then we got lucky, but getting the supplies was not easy.

...Two semi-trailer trucks, cleverly marked as food-service vehicles, met us at the warehouse. When fully loaded, the trucks would take two distinct routes back to Massachusetts to minimize the chances that their contents would be detained or redirected.

...I was soon shocked to learn that the Department of Homeland Security was still considering redirecting our PPE. Only some quick calls leading to intervention by our congressional representative prevented its seizure.

Firefighters in Miami were not so lucky, and had their shipment taken by the feds.

[Koharu]

Since this silly theory has been mentioned here: Virus Researchers Cast Doubt On Theory Of Coronavirus Lab Accident

Virus researchers say there is virtually no chance that the new coronavirus was released as result of a laboratory accident in China or anywhere else.

The assessment, made by more than half-a-dozen scientists familiar with lab accidents and how research on coronaviruses is conducted, casts doubt on recent claims that a mistake may have unleashed the coronavirus on the world.

[Koharu]

I think the biggest factor in how everything goes will depend on this immunity issue. If people are able to develop an immunity, we will hopefully be able to develop am effective vaccine. Those with immunity will be able to go back to work, etc.

If people can't develop immunity, as there have been hints of since the beginning, this may end up fundamentally changing our society. Obviously things won't remain exactly as they are now forever, but there will be significant change from the old "normal."

[Koharu]

If people can't develop immunity, as there have been hints of since the beginning, this may end up fundamentally changing our society. Obviously things won't remain exactly as they are now forever, but there will be significant change from the old "normal."

There have been literally zero hints towards this.

'No Evidence' Yet That Recovered COVID-19 Patients Are Immune, WHO Says
Recovered coronavirus patients are testing positive again. Can you get reinfected?
Questions raised over COVID-19 reinfection after Japanese woman develops illness again

There's tons more, going back to at least mid-March, if my memory serves.

Don't call me a liar. I make sure my opinions are stated as such, and unlike many others, I don't make up information to suit my argument.

Anyway, my point was that we may see masks become part of daily life, as well as other things I can't think of but would be different than how life is now to keep the reproduction number down while the least vulnerable return to work. Life will be different.

[Koharu]

Please don't move the goalposts. I said there had been hints that immunity may not be a simple issue and someone quoted me saying there had been none. I linked three articles from three different points during the pandemic indicating that immunity may not be guaranteed, thus supporting my statement.

It's too early to know for sure if immunity is solid or not, obviously, since we're in the middle of the pandemic and testing is just not there. But I didn't make anything up, and I'm not here to argue about whether immunity is guaranteed or not, just to support my statement after being called a liar. This has been an issue talked about throughout the pandemic, which is what I said. I'm not going to go further into the weeds to discuss whether these observations are accurate or not because that's outside my skills. But I do not take well to bring called a liar, so I posted to show that I'm not.

[Koharu]

Are there some states that are requiring people to stay indoors? Wisconsin has been very adamant that people should go for walks and get outside daily. Not only is the governor regularly posting on social media about this, but so are various public health organizations around the state, and the Dane County Park service has been hugely encouraging people to visit. While some state parks were closed because of overcrowding at the beginning of the safer at home stuff, they are reopening again soon.

I haven't been out as much over the last few days because it's been raining, but it's a beautiful spring here and everyone should be out enjoying the outdoors (while socially distancing).

I dislike how people exaggerate the terms of how governments are responding to this crisis. It's obviously not life as usual, but neither are we literal prisoners in our own homes, either.

[Koharu]

I'm absolutely livid about the meat processing plants bring forced back open. What protections will there be for the workers? Smithfield in Sioux Falls was already a major hotspot. Most people aren't willing to work meat processing plants, which is why many employee illegal immigrants as well. How are these places going to be staffed? There was no forethought or any real consideration put into this decision. Ugh.

[Koharu]

.I just mostly went off topic on OP's line that its impossible for Americans to work meatpacking jobs when they literally did a quarter century ago.

Meat packing jobs have historically always been done by immigrants, second generation Americans, and African Americans(who didn't have many other options). You're not being realistic about the history of these jobs.

And I didn't say it was impossible, just that most Americans aren't willing. If wages were doubled out tripled, then yes, Moore folks would be willing. But the companies can't afford that kind of jump right now, and neither can American consumers, because their own wages have stagnated and meat is seen and used as a staple to the American diet rather than an add-on or luxury.

[Koharu]

White privilege: getting called an "armed protester" instead of terrorist.

Ugh. The terroristic threats in Michigan are terrifying. I'm afraid WI is going to imitate it soon. The protestors here a week ago were happily calling Gov. Evers a king and communist and many worse things.

[Koharu]

I'm pessimistic because I've been alive long enough to know that hoping for anything is just setting yourself up for disappointment.

That isn't a feature or benefit of age. Please, seek professional help. Your comments indicate that you need help. The world is nowhere near as dark and horrible as you see it. Your falling back to worst possible scenarios is not healthy and you can get help.

[Koharu]

Conservatives rejecting remdesivir, still promoting hydroxychloroquine
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/02/donald-trump-coronavirus-remdesivir-229765

What a shame.
I never understood why hydroxychloroquine was so hyped when Remdesivir was obviously more promising since early February. I guess Trump supporters sometimes can’t think for themselves.

Trump and his followers don't understand the concept of admitting they're wrong--once they decide to get behind something they dig in and no amount of facts will convince them otherwise.

That’s exactly why we should deny hospital beds and medical treatment to those who were in the reopening protests, at least for now. Even better, let’s just give them as much hydroxychloroquine as they want for free. They can even decide their dosage sizes without extra cost!

That's absolutely disgusting. We cannot deny medical care based on political beliefs, and doctors often have to offer treatments to patients that they don't necessarily believe in. It's not okay to joke about giving a potentially fatal medication to someone just because you disagree with their life choices. In what world would that be anywhere close to acceptable?

[Koharu]

Apparently the CDC has now suggested that pets also be socially distanced.

My dogs are much more social than I am and we've been regularly going to our local 15-acre dog park to get fresh air, exercise, and socialization for the pups. Our local public health org has been working hand-in-hand with the county park division and so far they haven't closed the dog parks or offered any further guidance, so I'm tempted to keep going to the dog parks until local authorities advise otherwise.

But then one of my dogs coughed twice this evening and the last time she coughed was when she got kennel cough (doggie cold) after her first time at daycare three years ago. Soooo. Ugh. This will actually make things much more frustrating for me personally. I can definitely still deal, but man my dogs love being around other dogs.

Luckily there haven't been any reports of COVID going to humans from pets, just from humans to pets.

[Koharu]

https://twitter.com/TheBushCenter/status/1256607729151619073
I'm sure this has been posted already, but Donald Trump is the best thing that could've possibly happened to George W Bush's legacy. Just having someone show basic human compassion is incredibly refreshing.

A person can be a good human being and a stinky president at the same time.

I think overall GWB is a decent human being, and he tended to show real empathy for people, so this kind of message isn't out of character or all that surprising.

It is, however, silly to imply that his being a decent human being somehow forgives his political obliviousness to the stupidity of tax cuts and starting a war without any way to pay for it and all the other political mistakes he made.

Also, GWB is backing up the messaging of the White House here, calling it an "invisible enemy" and framing this as a war. Not a fan of that rhetorical choice at all. The rest is exactly what a president should be saying, so I appreciate that.

[Koharu]

Statement by Mark Charles regarding the State of NM invoking the Riot Control Act to Restrict Access to Gallup NM, a Navajo Reservation Border Town

Travel to the border towns is essential, especially on the first weekend of the month. And with almost no notice, the Mayor of Gallup and the Governor of New Mexico closed access to a critical border town that provides essential services, medical care and resources to a large portion of the Navajo Nation and Zuni Pueblo.

The Gallup Police Department, New Mexico State Police and the National Guard were deployed to set up checkpoints and block access into the city.

The Navajo Nation has the third highest rate of COVID-19 infections per capita in the country (behind only New York and New Jersey). The CARES Act which was passed over a month ago, included 8 billion dollars allocated for American Indian tribes and Native Nations. On April 30, ironically the same day Mayor McKinney and Governor Grisham were deciding to close access to the border town of Gallup NM, six tribes filed a lawsuit against the Trump Administration because none of the allocated $8 billion had yet been distributed to tribes.

[Koharu]

No Detectable Surge in SARS-CoV-2 Transmission due to the April 7, 2020 Wisconsin Election

Oh look, that article hasn't been peer reviewed yet.

https://twitter.com/repmarkpocan/status/1257087389161439232?s=20

And now, a week after the "end the COVID measures" protests, we're having our biggest increases in cases. From WPR:

There are 7,660 positive cases of COVID-19 in Wisconsin as of Saturday, according to the state Department of Health Services. That's an increase of 346 cases from the day before.

This follows a growth in the number of confirmed cases in the state. Friday saw 460 new cases from the day before — the largest single-day increase in positive cases that Wisconsin has seen since the outbreak began in March.

[Koharu]

Peer review is a lengthy process, and this submission was just received on April 29.  It's isn't particularly notable that the article is not yet peer reviewed.  The authors are a WHO epidemiologist and two Stanford statisticians.

Wisconsin has also been steadily increasing testing, so we should expect a growth in the number of confirmed cases.

I'm aware. However, sharing a stub like that with a headline stating it as fact is misleading, hence my pointing out it isn't peer reviewed yet, so despite sounding authoritative, it isn't (yet).