COVID-19 Megathread 5: The Trumps catch COVID-19

[Donald Trump’s Toupée]

Biggest overreaction ever.

I can think of another.

This is actually a pretty good analogy.  When the terrorist attacks happened on 9/11, it was pretty reasonable for us to enact a lot of new strict security measures, because we had very little knowledge of how much this initial wave represented an ongoing threat to our way of life.  But as time when on and it became apparent that terrorism was not a serious or common threat, we mostly failed to adjust our policies in light of new information.  We still have to take our shoes off and can’t take liquids on the plane despite not seeing any airplane related terrorism in almost two decades.

These serologic studies have the potential to give us real and essential information about the prevalence and fatality rates of the virus.  It would be shameful if we don’t use this information to adjust our policies.

It’s not a good analogy at all. Increased security didn’t exactly shut down the economy. Stupid analogy, actually.

[Calthrina950]

Biggest overreaction ever.

I can think of another.

This is actually a pretty good analogy.  When the terrorist attacks happened on 9/11, it was pretty reasonable for us to enact a lot of new strict security measures, because we had very little knowledge of how much this initial wave represented an ongoing threat to our way of life.  But as time when on and it became apparent that terrorism was not a serious or common threat, we mostly failed to adjust our policies in light of new information.  We still have to take our shoes off and can’t take liquids on the plane despite not seeing any airplane related terrorism in almost two decades.

These serologic studies have the potential to give us real and essential information about the prevalence and fatality rates of the virus.  It would be shameful if we don’t use this information to adjust our policies.

It’s not a good analogy at all. Increased security didn’t exactly shut down the economy. Stupid analogy, actually.

I'm surprised that you have this view. One of the main arguments concerning airport security procedures, since 9/11, is that they infringe upon civil liberties. And one of the main arguments that have been made by opponents of the shutdowns has been that civil liberties have been infringed. That would seem to create a connection between the two situations.

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

Biggest overreaction ever.

I can think of another.

This is actually a pretty good analogy.  When the terrorist attacks happened on 9/11, it was pretty reasonable for us to enact a lot of new strict security measures, because we had very little knowledge of how much this initial wave represented an ongoing threat to our way of life.  But as time when on and it became apparent that terrorism was not a serious or common threat, we mostly failed to adjust our policies in light of new information.  We still have to take our shoes off and can’t take liquids on the plane despite not seeing any airplane related terrorism in almost two decades.

These serologic studies have the potential to give us real and essential information about the prevalence and fatality rates of the virus.  It would be shameful if we don’t use this information to adjust our policies.

It’s not a good analogy at all. Increased security didn’t exactly shut down the economy. Stupid analogy, actually.

Certainly the current shutdown is a much greater inconvenience than the additional security measures after 9/11.  But the virus is also a much greater threat, so in that sense a more severe reaction was warranted.

[roxas11]

Latest studies show infection rates much higher, which means a much lower death rate.

I’ve been saying this from the very beginning. Biggest overreaction ever.

It seems weird to me that almost 50 thousand deaths in US so far are being written off as an overreaction.....

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

Latest studies show infection rates much higher, which means a much lower death rate.

I’ve been saying this from the very beginning. Biggest overreaction ever.

It seems weird to me that almost 50 thousand deaths in US so far are being written off as an overreaction.....

Yeah, interpreting the serologic study as proof we are “overreacting” is bizarre.

These studies suggest that far more people are going to get infected than either side of this debate has been willing to consider.  They also indicate that more people are going to die than previous estimateS.  It might be a lower IFR, but it’s still going to be more total deaths.

But they also indicate that our current reaction, while not an overreaction, might not be the right reaction.  Rather than trying to minimize infection, we may have to acknowledge that this is impossible and instead focus on mitigating the consequences of near universal infection.

[Donald Trump’s Toupée]

Baby Boomers have gotten us into never ending wars, a Great Recession, and now a total collapse of the global economy based on hysterical Coronavirus fear mongering. What a legacy.

[Calthrina950]

Latest studies show infection rates much higher, which means a much lower death rate.

I’ve been saying this from the very beginning. Biggest overreaction ever.

It seems weird to me that almost 50 thousand deaths in US so far are being written off as an overreaction.....

Yeah, interpreting the serologic study as proof we are “overreacting” is bizarre.

These studies suggest that far more people are going to get infected than either side of this debate has been willing to consider.  They also indicate that more people are going to die than previous estimateS.  It might be a lower IFR, but it’s still going to be more total deaths.

But they also indicate that our current reaction, while not an overreaction, might not be the right reaction.  Rather than trying to minimize infection, we may have to acknowledge that this is impossible any instead focus on mitigating the consequences of near universal infection.

Earlier, I asked whether or not coronavirus could end up infecting as many people as H1N1 did a decade ago (~60 million). With this new study, it seems likely that it will, and it could even surpass it. That is what is so alarming about this virus: the sheer number of asymptomatic and mildly symptomatic cases.

[Brittain33]

It’s not a good analogy at all. Increased security didn’t exactly shut down the economy.

The shoe bomber didn't kill 45,000 Americans and thousands more each day and cause lasting damage to thousands more, not even if he'd been successful.

Stupid analogy, actually.

Now that hurts my feelings, Donald Trump's Toupe.

[Brittain33]

Even if it turns out that total shutdown was an overreaction--and it's not clear that it was, because New York was still pushed past its point of medical capacity--until we'd gone through this once, no one knew how bad it could reasonably get. We just didn't have info. Planning for the almost worst (because we could have done better) was the right thing to do because the downside would have been tragic and catastrophic. As it is, we're seeing death take a large number of people.

[Donald Trump’s Toupée]

Liberals be like...

2001: THE PATRIOT ACT INFRINGES ON OUR RIGHTS ARGGGGGG! !
2020: Government takes my rights, and I’ll cower in the corner in my home. My safe space.

[Brittain33]

Ok, fine, I'll put you on ignore.

[GP270watch]

 Social distancing was supposed to buy us time to formulate a plan and produce resources, conduct testing and research, develop and test therapeutics and vaccines. These serological studies which quite frankly are not definitive yet are not proof that social distancing was wrong, they're the very result of the social distancing planning.

[It’s so Joever]

Liberals be like...

2001: THE PATRIOT ACT INFRINGES ON OUR RIGHTS ARGGGGGG! !
2020: Government takes my rights, and I’ll cower in the corner in my home. My safe space.

You be like:
2001: The Patriot Act is for our own security
2020: OML SHUTDOWNS ARE BASICALLY COMMUNISM

Besides, why can’t a liberal like both?

[Grassroots]

How are today's numbers looking?

[Gracile]

Governor Pritzker is extending IL's stay-at-home order until May 30:

https://twitter.com/chicagotribune/status/1253373378574127105

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Latest studies show infection rates much higher, which means a much lower death rate.

I’ve been saying this from the very beginning. Biggest overreaction ever.

It seems weird to me that almost 50 thousand deaths in US so far are being written off as an overreaction.....

https://twitter.com/gdinwiddie/status/1250130371242582016

[Dr. Arch]

How are today's numbers looking?

Again, too early. I post numbers at around 8:00 PM CST.

[Donald Trump’s Toupée]

It’s not a good analogy at all. Increased security didn’t exactly shut down the economy.

The shoe bomber didn't kill 45,000 Americans and thousands more each day and cause lasting damage to thousands more, not even if he'd been successful.

Stupid analogy, actually.

Now that hurts my feelings, Donald Trump's Toupe.

You know what’s a better analogy. Iraq’s WMD. How did that fear mongering on faulty intelligence turn out?

[GP270watch]

It’s not a good analogy at all. Increased security didn’t exactly shut down the economy.

The shoe bomber didn't kill 45,000 Americans and thousands more each day and cause lasting damage to thousands more, not even if he'd been successful.

Stupid analogy, actually.

Now that hurts my feelings, Donald Trump's Toupe.

You know what’s a better analogy. Iraq’s WMD. How did that fear mongering on faulty intelligence turn out?

 Not even a good analogy. The intelligence failure that's provable so far is that Trump and other Western countries were warned that something was out of control on the ground in China and they failed to heed that warning.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Liberals be like...

2001: THE PATRIOT ACT INFRINGES ON OUR RIGHTS ARGGGGGG! !
2020: Government takes my rights, and I’ll cower in the corner in my home. My safe space.

This isn't about liberals.

[Badger]

https://twitter.com/gelliottmorris/status/1253329870790078466

This model doesn't take into account anything about how we have observed COVID-19 actually spreading thus far or environmental factors (like warmer weather, less reliance on public transit, etc.) that favor the South.  Urban areas have higher infection rates despite doing relatively more social distancing, and I don't expect that to change once things start gradually opening back up.

What are your thoughts on Georgia reopening tomorrow? Even Trump has said that he disagrees with that decision, and in my view, it is reckless. Sure, the South may have factors that work to its favor, but nothing can be taken for granted, and there should be at least some precautions in place when reopening the economy.

I think something's got to give in regards to the stay-at-home restrictions.  Georgia appears to be blazing a trail, but the relaxations are more measured then what is being reported in the media. I don't see it as any less controlled than Colorado's phased-in reopening on April 26. The most important aspect of Kemp's plan, IMO, is allowing hospitals to resume elective procedures (i.e., like hip replacement surgeries) with is going to help immensely with severe financial bleeding hospitals are seeing due to the cessation of most outpatient procedures.  

Don’t you remember?
When Kemp does it, it’s a mass murder, but when Polis does it, it’s just responsible reopening.

It is more than reasonable 2 have significantly greater suspicion of the motives and judgment of such decisions made by leaders who openly scoffed at and downplayed the outbreak from day one, as opposed to those who took the matter seriously and enacted prompt responsible shut down measures.

 I admittedly am skeptical of reopening hair salons and tattoo parlors this early, and I'm not yet willing to say Polis is making the right decision here. However, it is not unreasonable to trust someone like Kemp significantly less when his entire record and rhetoric the last several weeks have shown consistently poor leadership and foresight.

Can you just admit that you're letting partisan considerations color your evaluation of how governors have been responding to this crisis?  Georgia hasn't seen any considerable growth in new cases in almost two weeks and has done approximately twice as many tests as Colorado.  The "motivations" of the governors in question don't change these facts.  Georgia is one of the states best-positioned to responsibly reopen, at this point.

As a small business owner, I also figured you'd be more sympathetic to nail/hair salons who have not been able to operate for well over a month now despite historically being some of the most well-regulated industries from a public health standpoint.  Kemp and Polis are correct in considering that The lost jobs, wages and income security resulting from these arbitrary stay-at-home orders has to end at some point (and probably sooner rather than later).    

No, I believe I am accurately assessing how political partisanship has thoroughly colored the response to the crisis by certain Governors like Kemp. I am not in phatically stating that Georgia is wrong, though I suspect they are, based on the figure to flatten the Curve. Kemp has shown no signs of an epiphany in the last several weeks contrary to the know-nothing talking points he is continually spouted. So no, suspicions against him as well warranted.

Again, I'm not certain that Colorado is taking the right Steps either. To the extent that I may not be as aware as the governor of the state as to the exact up-to-the-minute health statistics and advice they are receiving from their health professionals, I would be more inclined based on performance - - not partisanship - - to trust their governor over Kemp. But again, I view Colorado's reopening with some apprehension.

Course I'm sympathetic to small business owners in the s*** we are going through. It is a noxious to me that we have frittered away what was a bounding National Surplus in the early 2000s and pissed them away with needless wars in the Middle East End wholesale tax cuts to the donor class. We could have used that Surplus first in the Great Recession for a more vibrant stimulus package, and even more so now. but let's not forget that at least According to some links from respectable organizations posted in this thread recently that even Economist are not in favor of reopening soon as it's just going to cause more economic dislocation by likely permitting a resurgence of the outbreak.

[Grassroots]

Liberals be like...

2001: THE PATRIOT ACT INFRINGES ON OUR RIGHTS ARGGGGGG! !
2020: Government takes my rights, and I’ll cower in the corner in my home. My safe space.

I'm a very right wing user and I support these restrictions. We need to flatten the curve first.

[Badger]

Latest studies show infection rates much higher, which means a much lower death rate.

I’ve been saying this from the very beginning. Biggest overreaction ever.

It seems weird to me that almost 50 thousand deaths in US so far are being written off as an overreaction.....

https://twitter.com/gdinwiddie/status/1250130371242582016

This cannot be reposted enough.

[GP270watch]

 It was a huge mistake to not give direct stimulus money to every American person monthly for the next few months. All the moves to support corporate debt, bailouts, and small business loans have been wrongheaded or bungled and disorganized. Small businesses are very important because they employ majority of Americans but every small business owner is an individual and the program rollout has been a disaster. The money should have gone to individuals first and businesses second.

 As part of future disaster preparation we also need a way to instantly disperse money to every American individual or a targeted group of individuals. This should be done through the Treasury and not the the IRS. The IRS is an organization that is a politcal piñata and is often starved of resources so as to be purposely be inefficient.

 

[Dr Oz Lost Party!]

So what are the chances schools don't meet in the fall?