COVID-19 Megathread 5: The Trumps catch COVID-19

[Bandit3 the Worker]

I certainly think that people should be wearing them, and that they are necessary now. But it's hard for me to see people wearing them that far into the new year, particularly since it is likely that we may have a vaccine before then. But we'll see what happens. Mandatory mask orders have continued to spread in the meantime, with Los Angeles County, California and King County, Washington now requiring them. However, they haven't spread as fast in recent days as I would have expected. It will be interesting to see also, how long it will be mandatory. Once temperatures start to hit the heights of summer-say 90 or 100 degrees-how comfortable will they be? How practical will it be? I'm not sure.

I think there's a couple counties in California that repealed the orders.

I'm still flabbergasted that anyone at all wears masks outdoors (as opposed to cramped indoor businesses).

[Tender Branson]

White House Looks to Austria, South Korea on Reopening Ideas

By Josh Wingrove, Boris Groendahl, and Kanga Kong

The Trump administration has cited success stories in South Korea and Austria as it calls for Americans to return to work -- but those countries moved faster than the U.S. to combat the pandemic and have been more cautious in reopening their economies.

And a third country U.S. officials once regarded as a model, Singapore, is now struggling with a resurgence of the outbreak.

Secretary of State Michael Pompeo and White House economic adviser Kevin Hassett have said in the past two weeks that the Trump administration is monitoring those three nations as it plans for the U.S. to reopen.

But they offer flawed comparisons at best, given the much larger size of the U.S. and its outbreak, as well as measures taken to curb the virus.

Austria acted faster than the U.S. to clamp down on business and social life, while South Korea much more rapidly built a robust testing regime.

Yet they are both now just edging toward easing restrictions, even with infection rates far lower than the U.S., and South Korea has seen a new flare-up in nightclubs. Singapore, meanwhile, has seen a second wave that has forced a pivot to mass testing.

Link (Bloomberg)

[Del Tachi]

Meanwhile, King Emperor Chokwe A. Lumumba has decided that restaurants/gyms in the City of Jackson can go ahead and reopen tomorrow, but he's implementing a new citywide curfew as well as a mask mandate to go into effect over the weekend.  If he believes this to be the right course of action, where were these mandates 2-4 weeks ago?  In a press conference announcing the end of the city's SAHO, he said he was only allowing reopening so the city wouldn't become an "island".  So the mayor is opening the city while simultaneously chastising the Republican suburbs for doing the same; a nakedly cowardly move to have his political cake and eat it too.  His motivations appear misplaced.

In the Elon Musk thread you were criticising California for sticking to their guns on lockdowns and thus enforcing stricter regulations than other states. Businesses moving out was apparently their just reward. Here you are criticising another government official for not sticking to their guns. Being worried about public health, but acknowledging that the economic cost of lockdowns is too great when neighbouring areas use their leniency on public health to outcompete you, is apparently wrong as well.

It's hard to find better examples of the lose-lose situation that a race to the bottom brings.

The situations in both the Bay Area and the City of Jackson are that municipalities are taking measures beyond the currently in-place state guidelines endorsed and developed by state departments of health.  If the relevant areas were observing the state guidelines, there wouldn’t be an issue.

[GeorgiaModerate]

I certainly think that people should be wearing them, and that they are necessary now. But it's hard for me to see people wearing them that far into the new year, particularly since it is likely that we may have a vaccine before then. But we'll see what happens. Mandatory mask orders have continued to spread in the meantime, with Los Angeles County, California and King County, Washington now requiring them. However, they haven't spread as fast in recent days as I would have expected. It will be interesting to see also, how long it will be mandatory. Once temperatures start to hit the heights of summer-say 90 or 100 degrees-how comfortable will they be? How practical will it be? I'm not sure.

I think there's a couple counties in California that repealed the orders.

I'm still flabbergasted that anyone at all wears masks outdoors (as opposed to cramped indoor businesses).

I think the key should be whether you are going to be close to other people, which is of course much more likely if you are indoors.  I don't wear a mask when taking a walk around my neighborhood, where the houses are relatively far apart and I don't come close to other people.  I've seen pictures of solitary joggers with masks and don't think this is necessary.  But when people are in close proximity, where you can't maintain adequate distance between them, I think masks should be worn even outdoors.

[Del Tachi]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/lifestyle-buzz/how-long-are-we-going-to-be-wearing-masks-we-asked-the-experts/ar-BB13nolJ


Some experts expect mask wearing to be heavily encouraged until Nov 2021 (18 months) - the general time frame most experts expect a fully functional vaccine to be fully distributed. I still don't know if I buy it

I'm not wasting the next 18 months of my life on this.

You're not willing to wear a mask around other people until a vaccine is available?  Please explain how wearing one would constitute a waste of your life. 

Frankly, I'm puzzled why so many people who want to be out and about (which I certainly understand) are NOT willing to also wear a mask while they're out and among other people.  They should be embracing wearing a masks as a way to get out and activity back to closer to normal!  Wanting everyone to be out in public with no masks and no vaccine is just irresponsible, and risks everyone's health.  The virus is still prevalent in the US and many other countries, and just hoping for the best will not protect you.

Because people (perhaps myopically) want normalcy to resume, and wearing face coverings in public is such an obvious visual reminder that things haven’t returned to normal and things remain unsafe.  Remove the visual and you remove the association. 

It also doesn’t help that over there course of the pandemic the directives coming from top officials on whether or not to wear masks have done a complete 180°.

[Calthrina950]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/lifestyle-buzz/how-long-are-we-going-to-be-wearing-masks-we-asked-the-experts/ar-BB13nolJ


Some experts expect mask wearing to be heavily encouraged until Nov 2021 (18 months) - the general time frame most experts expect a fully functional vaccine to be fully distributed. I still don't know if I buy it

I'm not wasting the next 18 months of my life on this.

You're not willing to wear a mask around other people until a vaccine is available?  Please explain how wearing one would constitute a waste of your life. 

Frankly, I'm puzzled why so many people who want to be out and about (which I certainly understand) are NOT willing to also wear a mask while they're out and among other people.  They should be embracing wearing a masks as a way to get out and activity back to closer to normal!  Wanting everyone to be out in public with no masks and no vaccine is just irresponsible, and risks everyone's health.  The virus is still prevalent in the US and many other countries, and just hoping for the best will not protect you.

Because people (perhaps myopically) want normalcy to resume, and wearing face coverings in public is such an obvious visual reminder that things haven’t returned to normal and things remain unsafe.  Remove the visual and you remove the association. 

It also doesn’t help that over there course of the pandemic the directives coming from top officials on whether or not to wear masks have done a complete 180°.

It does amaze me how quickly they went from being recommended to becoming mandatory in many places. And in some respects, enforcement of mask mandates has been excessive. I saw a story on my local news station yesterday that a black woman in New York City was pulled down and "manhandled" by police officers there for not wearing a mask at the subway. I also heard that Denver International Airport is requiring all individuals to wear masks while on their premises, and that they are fining those who do not. This is something I've always been wary about: arresting or fining people for not wearing masks.

[Beet]

Trump says testing is overrated.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trump-says-coronavirus-testing-overratedclaims-fewer-cases-if-no-testing-2020-05-14

[GeorgiaModerate]

https://twitter.com/AndySlater/status/1261048907880181761

[Inmate Trump]

Trump says testing is overrated.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trump-says-coronavirus-testing-overratedclaims-fewer-cases-if-no-testing-2020-05-14

So he wants to test less so that our numbers go down (while they actually rise)...so aside from the sheer idiocy of this, what could possibly be a reason for him wanting to test less/bring numbers down?

The only thing I can think of is that with fewer tests bringing our official infection numbers down, it helps make his case that we're somehow safer going into November.

I can't blame just him for completely disregarding American lives; some blame must rest with his voters.

[jamestroll]

I am not a fan of Pritzker's regions at all. The collar counties should be a seperate region from Cook County.

And most of the rest of the state is ready to open up.

[Grassroots]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/lifestyle-buzz/how-long-are-we-going-to-be-wearing-masks-we-asked-the-experts/ar-BB13nolJ


Some experts expect mask wearing to be heavily encouraged until Nov 2021 (18 months) - the general time frame most experts expect a fully functional vaccine to be fully distributed. I still don't know if I buy it

The midline scenario for a vaccine is winter-spring 2021. The fact MSN doesn't know that is all you need to know about their credibility.

[Beet]

https://twitter.com/brianstelter/status/1261267252365623297

Ironic, as Lancet is inserting themselves into politics with this statement, while their authority comes from sticking to science. While I agree with this statement, they should focus on publishing papers and leave it to Joe Biden to make the case against Trump.

[Badger]

In the latter case, the population would eventually reach a state of herd immunity.  And I agree that it's likely a vaccine will take less than 18 months.  But you still haven't explained why wearing a mask is a waste of your life.

Constant wearing of masks impedes social interaction, speech, and breathing.

Yeah, that totally equates wasting your life.

Equal parts gross selfishness and gross irresponsibility. Kudos indeed.

[Badger]

https://twitter.com/brianstelter/status/1261267252365623297

Ironic, as Lancet is inserting themselves into politics with this statement, while their authority comes from sticking to science. While I agree with this statement, they should focus on publishing papers and leave it to Joe Biden to make the case against Trump.

Or rather, is it just telling that it's gotten so so bad with Trump trying to play  Nero 2.0 that even the Lancet has to wade into politics?

[Bandit3 the Worker]

Yeah, that totally equates wasting your life.

Equal parts gross selfishness and gross irresponsibility. Kudos indeed.

Then what about the WHO recommendations?

[Badger]

Yeah, that totally equates wasting your life.

Equal parts gross selfishness and gross irresponsibility. Kudos indeed.

Then what about the WHO recommendations?

Yippy skippy. The Centers for Disease Control recommend wearing them.

The bigger issue here is that your rather overblown sentiment that wearing a mask equates somehow "wasting your life" demonstrates a continually shocking level of self-absorption.

Seriously though, you've done a great job these past couple months in demonstrating that whack jobs and conspiracy theorists regarding the coronavirus and anti contagion measures not entirely confined to the right wing.

[Beet]

https://twitter.com/brianstelter/status/1261267252365623297

Ironic, as Lancet is inserting themselves into politics with this statement, while their authority comes from sticking to science. While I agree with this statement, they should focus on publishing papers and leave it to Joe Biden to make the case against Trump.

Or rather, is it just telling that it's gotten so so bad with Trump trying to play  Nero 2.0 that even the Lancet has to wade into politics?

It is ironic because they are saying that the president should be guided by "public health" and presumably science, and not partisan politics. The essence of their complaint is that politics is being inserted where only public health and science belong. Yet by making this statement they, until now one of the few institutions respected as purely scientific and non political, are explicitly inserting their own paper into partisan politics. Both Trump's behavior and Lancet's behavior is reflective of the same problem, which is politicization of the pandemic and pandemic response. Which is irrational since the problem is a virus, which attacks all people equally. If even Lancet can't resist politics, how can they expect Trump, a politician, to resist politics?

[Bandit3 the Worker]

Yippy skippy. The Centers for Disease Control recommend wearing them.

After the CDC rejected the WHO's tests and used its own botched tests instead, I don't place very much faith in the CDC.

I just love how instead of making sure we had enough tests, everyone just resorted to authoritarian measures instead.

[Badger]

Yippy skippy. The Centers for Disease Control recommend wearing them.

After the CDC rejected the WHO's tests and used its own botched tests instead, I don't place very much faith in the CDC.

I just love how instead of making sure we had enough tests, everyone just resorted to authoritarian measures instead.

Just like the right-wingers you usually rail on about, you have a tough time distinguishing "authoritarianism" from "inconvenience".

[Landslide Lyndon]

Darwin award nominee.

https://twitter.com/jaredlholt/status/1261296078969847808

[Badger]

Darwin award nominee.

https://twitter.com/jaredlholt/status/1261296078969847808

I started to feel sympathy for her for a minute despite her stupidity. And then I thought about how many dozens of people she may have infected at that Supermarket, either through direct contact or contact with food later purchased by others.

This isn't just a self own. She's exhibit a why not to reopen too quickly, and why the protesters are morons.

[Bandit3 the Worker]

Just like the right-wingers you usually rail on about, you have a tough time distinguishing "authoritarianism" from "inconvenience".

Eighteen months is more than just an "inconvenience."

[Badger]

Just like the right-wingers you usually rail on about, you have a tough time distinguishing "authoritarianism" from "inconvenience".

Eighteen months is more than just an "inconvenience."

Debatable semantics. Regardless, it's a damn sight closer to inconvenience than so-called authoritarianism.

[Bandit3 the Worker]

Just like the right-wingers you usually rail on about, you have a tough time distinguishing "authoritarianism" from "inconvenience".

Eighteen months is more than just an "inconvenience."

Debatable semantics. Regardless, it's a damn sight closer to inconvenience than so-called authoritarianism.

Also, as I said before, there's no 100% guarantee there will ever be a vaccine. It simply might not happen, especially in my lifetime.

[Tintrlvr]

Unfortunately, the positives rate went up slightly in NY today, though it is still, at 7.0%, in line with the nation and well below 10%. The positives rate is also below 10% in every downstate county except the Bronx, which saw a bit of a spike today but has been below 10% on other days in the recent past.

The number of deaths dropped to a new low of 134 since March 27 (which also had 134 deaths). Testing is also basically the same as yesterday, which makes today and yesterday the second- and third-highest testing days so far (there was a huge dump of test results on April 24 for some reason, possibly a backlogged lab).