SENATE BILL: Single Use Glass and Plastic Discouraging Act (Failed)

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

So with Scott's amendment passing and Tack's being withdrawn, where does that leave the bill? More amendments?

[Esteemed Jimmy]

I don't support this bill as written. Section 2 will be a big tax on the poor. I also have a big problem with Section 4 since a lot of those uses don't have a cost-effective alternative material.

Reiterating this earlier point now that I'm in the Senate. I would support an amended version of Section 2 though that is more reasonable, but not the rest of the bill as written.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I don't support this bill as written. Section 2 will be a big tax on the poor. I also have a big problem with Section 4 since a lot of those uses don't have a cost-effective alternative material.

Reiterating this earlier point now that I'm in the Senate. I would support an amended version of Section 2 though that is more reasonable, but not the rest of the bill as written.

I have PMed Scott and Tack about this statement. Trying my hand at expediting responses to take advantage of the more active membership.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Reading over the bill again and considering Jimmy's concerns, I have to admit I'm on the fence towards much of the rest of the bill.  I think what we're essentially doing is weighing between a tax on the poor versus a motion that will have minimal impact on reducing environmental damage on our part - while in real life we have an entire movement dedicated to implementing a "Green New Deal" to simultaneously address saving the environment and restructuring the economy for people who need it most.  (Although the GND as written is mostly vague platitudes and lacking in real policy changes, and no one knows how much it would cost or how/if it could be implemented effectively.)

But I would be more likely to support the bill if we make all the new taxes refundable.  Section five should also be struck out entirely because it is extremely vague and contains no plan to achieve its goals.

[Former President tack50]

Well, I personally refuse to believe that this is somehow a tax on poor people or anything of the sort unlike what Jimmy and Scott seem to be claiming?

The system works perfectly fine in many jurisdictions (including apparently Yankee's old home state of NY irl?) and is not really a tax on poor people as the taxes are just refundable immediately.

The only non-refundable tax here is a tax of a whopping 5 cents on the purchases of plastic bags. Is this really such a big tax? I do not think so, and despite its very small cost it is extremely effective at reducing plastic usage.

I will say that I am fine with removing Section V if people want. It is the usual "empty platitude" stuff that gets added to bills as a declaration of intent but ends up being ignored; so if you don't want it I am more than fine removing it.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

We seem to have a had a four day lapse in discussion which is unfortunate since this conversation was so good a few day's ago.

Anyway, while the state of NY has this system it should be noted that it is not without some complaints as there are issues of cost in disposal as well as some issues with vendors of the soft drinks as it relates to they being required to pick them up. Most of the articles I kept coming across on this matter were over a decade old though, so I don't know if changes were made.

[At-Large Senator LouisvilleThunder]

I oppose the bans of these items and the taxes in this bill.

[Former President tack50]

Introducing the following amendment to reduce the deposits (which I think can get quite high if regions also create them) and to get rid of section 5:

Section 2: Refundable Deposits
1. A deposit of 10 cents shall be paid by consumers on all sales of glass bottles
2. A deposit of 5 cents shall be paid by consumers on all sales of aluminium cans
3. A deposit of 30 cents shall be paid by consumers on all sales of plastic bottles
4. These deposits shall not be paid on top of any additional regional, state or local deposits. If a region, state or local government introduces local deposits; the deposits shall be reduced by the amount worth of the regional, state or local deposit; until the federal one reaches zero.
5. These deposits shall be refunded to the consumer after delivering the empty container in recyclable shape at any recycling point.
6. All supermarkets and other convenience stores with a surface area larger than 2000 square feet shall be considered recycling points for the purposes of this act. These establishments shall be responsible for delivering the received containers to a processing plant where they can be adequately recycled.
7. Section 2.6 shall not be construed as to limit the implementation of recycling points in any other sort of establishment or store

Section 5: Future goals
1. The Republic of Atlasia and its government shall pass the necessary measures to ensure that 90% of plastics are collected and explicitly separated for recycling by the year 2029
2. The Republic of Atlasia and its government shall pass the necessary measures to ensure that 25% of plastics are made of recycled materials by the year 2025; and 30% by the year 2030.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Section 2: Refundable Deposits
1. A deposit of 10 cents shall be paid by consumers on all sales of glass bottles
2. A deposit of 5 cents shall be paid by consumers on all sales of aluminium cans
3. A deposit of 30 cents shall be paid by consumers on all sales of plastic bottles
4. These deposits shall not be paid on top of any additional regional, state or local deposits. If a region, state or local government introduces local deposits; the deposits shall be reduced by the amount worth of the regional, state or local deposit; until the federal one reaches zero.
5. These deposits shall be refunded to the consumer after delivering the empty container in recyclable shape at any recycling point.
6. All supermarkets and other convenience stores with a surface area larger than 2000 square feet shall be considered recycling points for the purposes of this act. These establishments shall be responsible for delivering the received containers to a processing plant where they can be adequately recycled.
7. Section 2.6 shall not be construed as to limit the implementation of recycling points in any other sort of establishment or store

Section 5: Future goals
1. The Republic of Atlasia and its government shall pass the necessary measures to ensure that 90% of plastics are collected and explicitly separated for recycling by the year 2029
2. The Republic of Atlasia and its government shall pass the necessary measures to ensure that 25% of plastics are made of recycled materials by the year 2025; and 30% by the year 2030.

Sponsor Feedback: Origination
Status: Senators have 24 hours to object.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The amendment is adopted.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

What are the next steps on this bill?

[YE]

With the straw bit removed, I don’t have any problems with this bill. We’ve cut enough taxes and given enough money to the poor, coronavirus aside, that I don’t find the tax hikes in this problematic in the grand scheme of things.

[Esteemed Jimmy]

I still oppose this bill as written. What amounts to a small tax of $10-15 a week for those buying groceries real adds up to those with little money.

[Former President tack50]

I still oppose this bill as written. What amounts to a small tax of $10-15 a week for those buying groceries real adds up to those with little money.

Wait, do people not use reusable bags? My family has been using them (or sometimes, cardboard crates) for the past line 5 years without issue tbh

Also the tax is literally 5 cents per bag. At most I would expect somewhere around 50 cents a week per household to be paid. 10-15$ a month implies something on the order of 200 plastic bags lol.

[Esteemed Jimmy]

I still oppose this bill as written. What amounts to a small tax of $10-15 a week for those buying groceries real adds up to those with little money.

Wait, do people not use reusable bags? My family has been using them (or sometimes, cardboard crates) for the past line 5 years without issue tbh

Also the tax is literally 5 cents per bag. At most I would expect somewhere around 50 cents a week per household to be paid. 10-15$ a month implies something on the order of 200 plastic bags lol.

I meant the "deposits". Also in many areas, in my area, there are very few if any recycling programs and grocery stores are like 45 minutes drive away in some cases. This will leave poor rural areas and rural areas overall suffering from the deposit "tax", do to the additional burden of getting the refund.

I'd prefer if Section 2 was rewritten into a refund-only program.

[Former President tack50]

I still oppose this bill as written. What amounts to a small tax of $10-15 a week for those buying groceries real adds up to those with little money.

Wait, do people not use reusable bags? My family has been using them (or sometimes, cardboard crates) for the past line 5 years without issue tbh

Also the tax is literally 5 cents per bag. At most I would expect somewhere around 50 cents a week per household to be paid. 10-15$ a month implies something on the order of 200 plastic bags lol.

I meant the "deposits". Also in many areas, in my area, there are very few if any recycling programs and grocery stores are like 45 minutes drive away in some cases. This will leave poor rural areas and rural areas overall suffering from the deposit "tax", do to the additional burden of getting the refund.

I'd prefer if Section 2 was rewritten into a refund-only program.

Well Section 2.6 should take care of that, basically making it so medium sized and large supermarkets need to install recycling points and/or reverse vending machines? (I would also expect small grocery shops to install them to remain competitive but it would not be a mandate)

Mind you I am open to putting in more restrictive requirements regarding the installation of these recycling points (say, at least 1 per county or to expand it to all grocery stores regardless of size). If need be I am also open to reducing this bill so that it only applies in counties with a population over X; or counties defined as urban or suburban by the Census Bureau or something like that.

Tbh even in a rural town I have a hard time thinking that you need to drive 45 minutes each way in order to get to a grocery store, though of course it also depends on how many grocery stores actually become recycling points.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

So amendments forthcoming?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

So amendments forthcoming?

[Former President tack50]

What is the current text of the bill? I kinda got lost with all the amendments lol

[YE]

What is the current text of the bill? I kinda got lost with all the amendments lol

Same.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I think its this:

SENATE BILL

To encourage the recycling and discourage the single use of plastics and glass materials

Be it enacted in both Houses of Congress Assembled,

Section 1: Name
1. This bill may be referred to as the "Single use glass and plastic discouraging act"

Section 2: Refundable Deposits
1. A deposit of 10 cents shall be paid by consumers on all sales of glass bottles
2. A deposit of 5 cents shall be paid by consumers on all sales of aluminium cans
3. A deposit of 30 cents shall be paid by consumers on all sales of plastic bottles
4. These deposits shall be paid on top of any additional regional, state or local deposits.  If a region, state or local government introduces local deposits; the deposits shall be reduced by the amount worth of the regional, state or local deposit; until the federal one reaches zero.
5. These deposits shall be refunded to the consumer after delivering the empty container intact at any recycling point.
6. All supermarkets and other convenience stores with a surface area larger than 2000 square feet shall be considered recycling points for the purposes of this act. These establishments shall be responsible for delivering the received containers to a processing plant where they can be adequately recycled

Section 3: Non-refundable taxes
1. A tax of 5 cents shall be imposed on all sales of plastic bags
2. These taxes shall be imposed on top of any regional, state or local taxes

Section 4: Single use plastics bans
1. Starting on July 1st, 2021; the sale of the following products across the Republic of Atlasia shall be banned if they are made of single-use plastics or oxo-degradable plastic:
a) Cotton bud sticks
b) Plastic plates and cutlery
c) Sticks to be attached to and support balloons
d) Food containers intended for meals ready for immediate consumption and made out of expanded polystirene
e) Beberage containers made up of expanded polystyrene
f) Cups made up of expanded polystyrene

Section 5: Enactment
1. Except for the parts that specify otherwise, this bill shall be enacted 1 month after passage

• May 06, 2020, 03:19:03 am S24:06 Tack50 amendment to the Single Use Glass... - Adopted
• April 24, 2020, 04:00:11 am S23:19 tack50 amendment to the Singe Use... - Withdrawn
• April 24, 2020, 03:30:03 am S23:18 Scott amendment to the Single Use... - Passed

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

So where does that leave us at?

[Former President tack50]

So where does that leave us at?

The big question would be whether we want to impose county minimums or some other sort of messure to make this easier on rural areas as Jimmy worried about. And if so, how should we do it.

[YE]

Alright so backtracing, worth jotting down that we just introduced one amendment passed by Scott keeping the use of straws and Tack took down his amendment.

[YE]

With the straw bit removed, I don’t have any problems with this bill. We’ve cut enough taxes and given enough money to the poor, coronavirus aside, that I don’t find the tax hikes in this problematic in the grand scheme of things.

Yeah I still stand by this but maybe delay the taxes by a year due to the coronavirus?