Opinion of the Bible's literalism/historic-truth/scientific-truth/perfection? (user search)
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  Opinion of the Bible's literalism/historic-truth/scientific-truth/perfection? (search mode)
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Question: Parts of the Bible are divinely-inspired, but not all of the Bible is literally true, in historical or scientific understanding or even moral teaching -- and that truth from God can come from other sources besides the Bible too... (see post)
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Author Topic: Opinion of the Bible's literalism/historic-truth/scientific-truth/perfection?  (Read 2879 times)
Blue3
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« on: April 11, 2020, 11:50:24 PM »

Parts of the Bible are divinely-inspired, but not all of the Bible is literally true, in historical or scientific understanding or even moral teaching -- and that truth from God can come from other sources besides the Bible too, whether it's by other religious texts or non-religious texts or improved scientific understanding of the world or personal intuition or other people.

Opinions?
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Blue3
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« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2020, 12:09:04 AM »

Not a Christian, but it's really hard to parse on account of how it combines a few different things together. The idea that only some of the Bible is divinely inspired is fairly unconventional. The notion that, for example, scientific advancements are a source of divine knowledge is pretty weird, but most Christians would accept that God can personally confer truth upon those who believe in Him.
The idea is that we can learn about God by studying what God created. Scientifically studying the universe, God's creation, is an act of honoring God and learning what God intended for the universe and how God manifests his will in the universe.
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Blue3
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« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2020, 11:22:24 PM »

Even the doctrines that advocated for genocide, allowed slavery, and  condemning eating shellfish or wearing certain fabrics?
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Blue3
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« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2020, 03:07:44 AM »

Even the doctrines that advocated for genocide,

     Supposing you are referring to the Israelite conquest of the Promised Land, the peoples that they fought routinely tried to genocide them, and under God's lead the Israelites generally either acted thus in self-defense or to exact justice for the wrongs visited upon them. When the Gibeonites humbled themselves before the Israelites, they were allowed to live among the Israelites. The doctrine to be extracted here is to be humble and obedient before God, and not to defy His will.

Quote
allowed slavery,

     Biblical slavery is a form of indentured servitude. People often identify it with chattel slavery as existed in the American South, but that is inaccurate.

Quote
and  condemning eating shellfish or wearing certain fabrics?

     The Law of Moses was binding upon Israel, until Jesus Christ died for our sins and fulfilled it. The purpose of the Law is to show us our own sinfulness and teach us that we need a savior, per the writings of the Holy Apostle Paul:

Quote from: Galatians 3:23-25
23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

1 Samuel 15:3: "This is what the Lord Almighty says ... 'Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.' "

Psalm 137:9: "Happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us / He who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks."

1 Peter 2:18: "Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel."

Hosea 13:16: "Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up."

Deuteronomy 13:15 "Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that [is] therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword."

Deuteronomy 20:16-17: "But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee [for] an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth"

Isaiah 14:21: "Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities."

Isaiah 13:15-16: "Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword. Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished."

Jeremiah 50:21-22" "Go up against the land of Merathaim, [even] against it, and against the inhabitants of Pekod: waste and utterly destroy after them, saith the LORD, and do according to all that I have commanded thee.  "

You think that is true, and the word of God?

This is, what you call "self-defense" and "justice"?

And on slavery: the explicit command to obey CRUEL masters?

As for things like eating shellfish and the mixing of fabrics being ok after Jesus, that misses my point. How were the instances I quoted above ever acceptable, but stuff like the fabrics they wore ever not ok??


Even the doctrines that advocated for genocide, allowed slavery, and  condemning eating shellfish or wearing certain fabrics?

Do you really not see the problem with putting those three things in a list together like that?
Then you are probably missing my point, which I just addressed too. How can everything in the Bible be "true" if it says genocide and slavery are ok, but eating shellfish and wearing clothes of mixed fabric is not? Like, do you not see the disconnect there? Do you not see the point?
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Blue3
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« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2020, 06:22:17 PM »

You're asking 11 separate questions as a yes or no question, dude
No. I can see how some might see it as 2 questions, even though it's really still one question. But not more than 2. Definitely not "11."

The question, even more simplified is: Do you agree or disagree with the opinion that the Bible and Truth From God only overlap in some areas, and aren't completely equal to each other?

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Blue3
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« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2020, 06:55:34 PM »

That's not what I'm asking.

But if you want to each of them point by point, you're free to.
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Blue3
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« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2020, 01:00:36 AM »

Then you are probably missing my point, which I just addressed too. How can everything in the Bible be "true" if it says genocide and slavery are ok, but eating shellfish and wearing clothes of mixed fabric is not? Like, do you not see the disconnect there? Do you not see the point?

You're putting moral weight onto that. The laws are explicitly framed in Deuteronomy as a contract between God and the Israelites: do these things as I've said and you'll prosper in the land I've given you, don't do these things and you'll be scattered and suffer. Then the next arc is the Israelites regularly disobeying their rules and getting scattered and subjugated by first Assyria and then Babylon. The laws are a critical part of the story and you're putting a sort of moral weight on them when they're supposed to be viewed as the obligations of the Israelites as their part of the divine contract they've made to gain control of the land.

And none of those rules about fabrics or food or anything else have anything to do with Gentiles, they're explicitly the contract between God and Moses for laws governing the Israelites. The Biblical God does not care if non-Israelites eat pork or work on Saturday because they're not part of the covenant. The rules don't apply to Gentiles because they never entered into a covenant to gain a piece of land and a blessing in return for following the laws. Gentiles are only held to the much less stringent Noahide Laws that God gave to Noah, which notably have no restrictions on diet other than not consuming blood.
I think it's wrong for Hebrews to obey those silly rules too, and I don't think God would have ever made a "contract" with them including those things.
Which brings me back to the original question on whether the Bible is always correct, all parts of it from God and nothing else... or not.
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