Was Mondale 1984 the last nominee from the left-wing of the Democratic Party?
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  Was Mondale 1984 the last nominee from the left-wing of the Democratic Party?
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Author Topic: Was Mondale 1984 the last nominee from the left-wing of the Democratic Party?  (Read 3684 times)
buritobr
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« on: April 11, 2020, 01:29:09 PM »

After Walter Mondale in 1984, were the other democratic nominees considered centrists? Michael Dukakis, Bill Clinton, Al Gore, John Kery, Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden?

In the primaries from 1988 to 2020, there were more left-wing candidates: Jesse Jackson, Tom Harkin, Bill Bradley, Howard Dean, John Edwards, Bernie Sanders.
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brucejoel99
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« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2020, 02:07:01 PM »

In all his 38 years in politics, Biden was never referred to as a centrist / moderate until this election, where extreme Bernie Sanders was present. He’s always been considered a liberal.

Hillary was always far-left, going back to the 1990s.

None of this is remotely true.
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Podgy the Bear
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« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2020, 02:29:15 PM »

1984 wasn't really a left-right battle.  If anything, most candidates were acting more conservative--given the times.

Compared to the other candidates that year, Mondale was definitely more to the left than Glenn, Askew, Hollings.  Jesse Jackson was more or less the African-American candidates (but not everyone because several establishment leaders endorsed Mondale).    Gary Hart was (and remains) an enigma--liberal on certain issues but no so much on others.
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darklordoftech
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« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2020, 02:42:50 PM »

Howard Dean’s distinction from Kerry wasn’t that he was economically to the left of Kerry but rather that he opposed the Iraq War, parts of the PATRIOT Act, and No Child Left Behind.
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brucejoel99
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« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2020, 02:50:13 PM »

In all his 38 years in politics, Biden was never referred to as a centrist / moderate until this election, where extreme Bernie Sanders was present. He’s always been considered a liberal.

Hillary was always far-left, going back to the 1990s.

None of this is remotely true.

*sigh*  ...

Straight from Biden’s own mouth.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2864783796916154&id=2229530000626147&_rdr

5:30

“Well you know it’s kinda interesting on your show for me to be called a moderate. I know it’s 13 years since I’ve been on it. But I’ve never been called a moderate on your show before. And I don’t consider myself ... I’m making the point that I have a very very progressive record, and the issue is what we can get done.”

*sigh*  ...

Straight from actual facts.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2019/may/06/joe-biden/joe-biden-claims-he-was-staunch-liberal-senate-he-/

Quote
Biden said, "I was always labeled as one of the most liberal members of the United States Congress."

A review of several databases that grade lawmakers based on ideology shows Biden has not always earned high grades for liberalism, and occasionally earned low marks. Among Senate Democrats, he was in the middle of the pack in terms of liberalism. Over his 35 years in the Senate, he showed a willingness to buck the left wing of his party and cross the partisan aisle.

We rate this False.

I can't tell you how much it pains me to not stand by Joe on this, but upholding the idea of what literal facts are is more important.
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Catalyst138
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« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2020, 04:28:32 PM »

The Overton Window has shifter left since the 90s. Because of this, even if Biden was considered a far leftist back then, he still could be considered a “moderate” now, even with the policy positions he didn’t change.

Also, “liberal” and “left” don’t mean the same thing.
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Obama-Biden Democrat
Zyzz
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« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2020, 05:12:43 PM »

Mondale was the last old school New Deal Democrat. He was running like it was 1932, not 1984.
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RINO Tom
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« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2020, 05:45:06 PM »

I'll actually echo that Biden is not overly "moderate," and it's annoying how both the snobby ""moderate"" red avatars who salivate at the idea of a Democratic Party that is a catch-all for anyone too good to vote for a Republican and the socialists who find it necessary to paint the Democratic Party as economically center right both push this.  What is he overly moderate on?  His temperament?  The fact that he has rejected literal democratic socialism?  The fact that he is an old White guy?  Lol
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Sumner 1868
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« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2020, 08:08:27 PM »

He was certainly on the left of Hart, but his platform was largely "tough medicine" austerity aimed at eliminating Reagan's military pork deficits rather than expanding social welfare and public works. The 1984 Democratic platform was well on the right of the 1976 one:

https://www.nytimes.com/1984/07/22/us/democrats-platform-shows-a-shift-from-liberal-positions-of-1976-and-1980.html

https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/1976-democratic-party-platform

https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/1984-democratic-party-platform
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kcguy
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« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2020, 10:55:43 AM »

Regarding Biden, I have random back issues of the Almanac of American Politics.  In those, they quote National Journal's rankings of the sitting senators.  They break it down by economic/cultural/foreign, but I'm just going to take a rough average between the three categories.


In Senate votes during the 2000 calendar year, Biden was more liberal than roughly 77% of his fellow senators.
In 1995, it was 65%.
In 1982, it was 75%.
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kcguy
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« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2020, 10:58:44 AM »

After Walter Mondale in 1984, were the other democratic nominees considered centrists? Michael Dukakis, Bill Clinton, Al Gore, John Kery, Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden?

In the primaries from 1988 to 2020, there were more left-wing candidates: Jesse Jackson, Tom Harkin, Bill Bradley, Howard Dean, John Edwards, Bernie Sanders.

In 2004, it was a Republican talking point that John Kerry was the most liberal sitting senator.

In 2008, it was a Republican talking point that Barack Obama was the most liberal sitting senator.

Heck, even in 1992, Bill Clinton was attacked as a dangerous "McGovernite".

It's only in retrospect that they seem milquetoast.



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dw93
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« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2020, 11:12:40 AM »

Despite the budget hawk campaign he ran, he was, but in the old New Deal Liberal sense. As others have said, Jesse Jackson was the most liberal candidate that ran that year. You also have to consider the times that a candidate run in as well as their opponents, both in the primary and the general shape the campaign a candidate runs.
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kcguy
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« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2020, 11:21:14 AM »

Regarding Biden, I have random back issues of the Almanac of American Politics.  In those, they quote National Journal's rankings of the sitting senators.  They break it down by economic/cultural/foreign, but I'm just going to take a rough average between the three categories.


In Senate votes during the 2000 calendar year, Biden was more liberal than roughly 77% of his fellow senators.
In 1995, it was 65%.
In 1982, it was 75%.

To put things in perspective, the following Democrats in 1982 tended to be below 50%:
Howell Heflin, Dennis DeConcini, Russell Long, Bennett Johnston, John Stennis, Edward Zorinsky, James Exon, and Lloyd Bentsen.

The following Republicans tended to be above 50%:
Lowell Weicker, Charles Percy, Charles Mathias, David Durenberger, John Danforth, Mark Hatfield, Bob Packwood, John Heinz, Arlen Specter, John Chafee, Robert Stafford, and Slade Gorton.

No scores were given to senators who were not reelected that fall.
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darklordoftech
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« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2020, 02:13:50 PM »

After Walter Mondale in 1984, were the other democratic nominees considered centrists? Michael Dukakis, Bill Clinton, Al Gore, John Kery, Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden?

In the primaries from 1988 to 2020, there were more left-wing candidates: Jesse Jackson, Tom Harkin, Bill Bradley, Howard Dean, John Edwards, Bernie Sanders.

In 2004, it was a Republican talking point that John Kerry was the most liberal sitting senator.

In 2008, it was a Republican talking point that Barack Obama was the most liberal sitting senator.

Heck, even in 1992, Bill Clinton was attacked as a dangerous "McGovernite".

It's only in retrospect that they seem milquetoast.
The common denominator here is “Republican talking point.” Of course Republicans will claim that the Democratic nominee is more liberal than they actually are.
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Dac10
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« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2020, 03:34:57 PM »

In all his 38 years in politics, Biden was never referred to as a centrist / moderate until this election, where extreme Bernie Sanders was present. He’s always been considered a liberal.

Hillary was always far-left, going back to the 1990s.

Lol Hillary “far left”. Her healthcare plan didn’t even involve a public option. She’s always been a milquetoast liberal following the political coattails of Bill Clinton.

And Biden’s always been from the establishment wing of the party. Maybe from the slight more left leaning side of the wing, sure. And he built his reputation on being more of a rust belt “man of the people” “worker” type politician. His comments during the 2016 primary about Bernie show that. But ultimately still coming from the same extremely liberal as f**k rockbed Obama was from. Which is exactly why Obama intervened to save him this time around.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li4PG7nmlyM


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SWE
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« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2020, 09:48:55 PM »

In all his 38 years in politics, Biden was never referred to as a centrist / moderate until this election, where extreme Bernie Sanders was present. He’s always been considered a liberal.

Hillary was always far-left, going back to the 1990s.

None of this is remotely true.

*sigh*  ...

Straight from Biden’s own mouth.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2864783796916154&id=2229530000626147&_rdr

5:30

“Well you know it’s kinda interesting on your show for me to be called a moderate. I know it’s 13 years since I’ve been on it. But I’ve never been called a moderate on your show before. And I don’t consider myself ... I’m making the point that I have a very very progressive record, and the issue is what we can get done.”
 
Amazing. You made a claim about Biden's career prior to this election, and your evidence is a quote from this election.
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Agonized-Statism
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« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2020, 10:38:52 PM »
« Edited: April 12, 2020, 10:48:54 PM by Anarcho-Statism »

The Democratic Party has always been right-wing. Welfarism is center-right, centrist at best, and neoliberalism is on the right. That said, he was to the left of the conga line of New Democrats that followed. All Democratic candidates from 1988 to present are products of the rightward shift pushed by the DLC after Mondale's loss. To periodize:

THE BIG DEMOCOALITIONS
Jacksonian Democrats: 1828-1860
Factionalism between the Bourbon Democrats, Tammany Hall, and the Solid South plays out from the Civil War to the Populist merger in 1896.
Democratic-Populists: 1896-1908
William Jennings Bryan, who had united everyone on populist outrage and destroyed the Bourbon Democrats, loses one too many times. Enter...
Progressives: 1912-1920
Wilson was able to make progressivism cool to southerners. His big WWI screw-up leads to factionalism again. Progressives and the Solid South fight each other. Suddenly...
New Deal Coalition: 1932-1968
We all know the story. 1948 is the first sign for disaster, which comes in 1968. War between the Great Societiers, Progressives, and the Solid South. New primary rules confuse everyone and allow a few outsiders to win. Gary Hart and the Atari Democrats are the first sign of change. After Mondale loses big, the DLC is established in 1985. Behold...
New Democrats: 1988-Present
A schism between Neoliberals and Progressives has been apparent since 2016, but relatively muted since Biden became the clear frontrunner (and coronavirus happened).
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Dac10
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« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2020, 11:37:46 PM »

In all his 38 years in politics, Biden was never referred to as a centrist / moderate until this election, where extreme Bernie Sanders was present. He’s always been considered a liberal.

Hillary was always far-left, going back to the 1990s.

Lol Hillary “far left”. Her healthcare plan didn’t even involve a public option. She’s always been a milquetoast liberal following the political coattails of Bill Clinton.





You talking about her 1990s health care plan? There wasn’t a public option ala Canada, but there were several liberal proposals - an employer mandate, government guarantee of minimum level of benefits, fixed amount of public funds for insurance companies for every person enrolled in their plans, and the regional alliances that would comprehensively regulate insurance quality etc.

Basically private insurance with massive government supervision.

Canada isn’t a public option, it’s essentially straight up a government system like the NHS. The only difference between a National Health Insurance Model and a full national model is that de Jure technically everything is still run run by companies, but de facto all profit they make and payment they give must come from government sources. So it’s essentially the government zombifying and taking over all the corporations into use their skeletal framework. Canada actually has one of the most radical healthcare systems in the West. It even bans all private hospitals.

The problem with the 90s plan was it “Aimee” for universal “affordability” instead of full universal coverage, which is a tricky turn a phrase that would’ve allowed the Dems to completely hollow out their proposals but still “accomplish” their promise. I’m entirely sure that if it ever looked like it has any real chance of passing, it would find itself with the same type of expeditions the recent COVID relief bill did.
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Libertas Vel Mors
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« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2020, 01:18:56 AM »

What the  are you smoking
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jfern
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« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2020, 01:24:48 AM »

In all his 38 years in politics, Biden was never referred to as a centrist / moderate until this election, where extreme Bernie Sanders was present. He’s always been considered a liberal.

Hillary was always far-left, going back to the 1990s.

Biden has the most right-wing Senate record of the 4 Democratic nominees this century, despite them all being Third Way / New Democrats.
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Bojack Horseman
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« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2020, 11:39:52 AM »

I'll actually echo that Biden is not overly "moderate," and it's annoying how both the snobby ""moderate"" red avatars who salivate at the idea of a Democratic Party that is a catch-all for anyone too good to vote for a Republican and the socialists who find it necessary to paint the Democratic Party as economically center right both push this.  What is he overly moderate on?  His temperament?  The fact that he has rejected literal democratic socialism?  The fact that he is an old White guy?  Lol

He’s not Bernie Sanders so he’s a neoliberal globalist cuck.
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Paul Weller
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« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2020, 02:00:16 PM »

No, McGovern was. Let's dispel with this fiction that Jimmy Carter or Walter Mondale were left-wing, when in reality they were the first of the neoliberals to take over the party.
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morgankingsley
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« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2020, 12:29:32 PM »

I would say Dukakis
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dw93
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« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2020, 01:28:20 PM »


Outside of his opposition to the Death Penalty Dukakis was only slightly to Bill Clinton's left.
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buritobr
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« Reply #24 on: April 23, 2020, 08:55:08 PM »

John Kenneth Galbraith wrote that Dukakis tried to make a speech similar to Reagan and Bush. He focused on how to make the public sector more efficient in order to reduce taxes, instead of how to increase the social safety net. Galbraith considered that Bush won because the people though that the original was better than the copy.
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