The far-left is doing a great job handling coronacrisis in Belgium
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  The far-left is doing a great job handling coronacrisis in Belgium
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Author Topic: The far-left is doing a great job handling coronacrisis in Belgium  (Read 1700 times)
LAKISYLVANIA
Lakigigar
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« on: April 11, 2020, 08:59:19 AM »

1) We have expertise in healthcare as we've seen saving money on healthcare doesn't work. We must increase expenses in healthcare, because we've shortages in masks, test kits, nurses and beds on ICU.

2) Virologist Marc Van Ranst - openly far-left and criticized as a hater of Flanders - is everyday on the news in Belgium on the two main tv channels. Some have said he should become Belgian person of the year. He's clear in communication and is in the first place Belgian's most known virologist, in second place politician of PVDA-PTB and works well with ministers of Open VLD

3) We have the organization healthcare for the people. Their efforts are praised in the media. As they test people for free in rest homes where most casualties are concentrated. The government made a gaffe by ignoring rest homes, and are criticized for that, as now is estimated 20% of people in rest homes are infected, and while the curve flattens, it doesn't in rest homes. 2/3rd of casualties are in rest homes. We started testing in cities and districts where communists are in power and now doing it everywhere else, because of the lack of resources elsewhere given by the federal government.

4) The political party has it's roots in healthcare. When "Healthcare for the people" started, the movement started the than maoist party PVDA.

Quote
Medicine for the People, [1] for short GVHV, is a Belgian association of physicians who offer free medicine. It is an initiative of the PVDA that started on January 4, 1971.

The association was founded from a Marxist ideology and is open to everyone. Medicine for the People consists of eleven group practices across Belgium, met 53 doctors, 50 employees and 72 volunteers. The organization is known, among other things, for its actions against lead pollution in Hoboken, for lower drug prices with the kiwi model and for more accessible first-line medicine by removing the financial thresholds.

Their proposals:
Quote
- High quality free medicine for everyone, under a national and strong social security system.
- Abolition of performance medicine. Introduction of a fixed monthly wage for the medical staff, including: doctors, specialists and pharmacists.
- Establish a National Health Service with patient representation and transparent decision-making
- Keep open all public hospitals.
- All hospitals fully accessible to everyone.
- A drug policy that chooses the best product at the lowest price and free of charge for the patient, based on a public tender for each drug.
- Giving priority to prevention in the broad sense of the word: good social security, a healthy environment, better job protection and good housing.
- Abolition of the Order of Physicians and replacement by a High Council of Medical Ethics.

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PSOL
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« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2020, 12:14:14 PM »

When there is only one major party dedicated to not screeching about the identity politics of regionalism, it’s obvious they would be most prepared on the bread and butter issues that Belgians need to care about.



This probably belongs in the Belgian megathread.
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brucejoel99
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« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2020, 12:31:40 PM »

This probably belongs in the Belgian megathread.
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GlobeSoc
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« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2020, 09:19:12 AM »

Will this have an effect on their poll numbers?
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LAKISYLVANIA
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« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2020, 09:44:45 AM »

Will this have an effect on their poll numbers?
Not sure, their latest poll ratings were so good, that I doubt they can even do better.

9,3% and polling higher than the Greens and almost even with liberals and social democrats after 8,4% in a previous poll is good in Flanders considering they won 5,2%.
18,6% in Wallonia after winning 13,6% in may 2019 is not their ceiling though. But they poll higher than the Greens and almost even with liberals. Only social democrats do poll significantly ahead of them, but I can imagine there is a possibility the social democrats lose support to PVDA.
In Brussels, polls tend to underestimate them, but they won 12,2% and poll status-quo.

Anything better than this would be great.

But COVID-19 happened after those polls, and i don't know how the government's approval is now (which got formed because of COVID-19). I don't think much changed, and I have even less of an idea what happened in Wallonia. But they got more media attention, so I expect them to poll around the same at least in Flanders.
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LAKISYLVANIA
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« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2020, 09:45:43 AM »

I'll add this post to this thread as well.



The far-left party PVDA gives 140.000 euro to corona crisis. The 34 parliamentary members give 50% of their wages to the corona crisis and make calls to other parties to do the same. No-one reacted. Social Democrats called the proposal populist. The far-left party PVDA argues that in Bulgaria all political families do the same. Political expert Carl Devos said that no-one of the establishment parties would agree as they would admit that politicians earn too much money, and that no-one wanted the PVDA to win on this issue.

The far-left party said they help wherever possible and that their organization: "Healthcare for Everyone" is testing people for free in rest homes where 2/3rd of casualties are concentrated". They've said that now is not the time to criticize the establishment, but to follow and respect the draconic measures and stay at home, and that their main mission is to save as many people. They also propose a one-time corona tax for the super rich.
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LAKISYLVANIA
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« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2020, 12:09:54 PM »

Meanwhile in Zelzate, where communists are in power.

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"Actually, this should be happening all over the country": Medicine for the People tests every resident of a residential care center on Corona:



ZELZATE A team of Medicine for the People tested all residents and staff of the residential and care center Zilverbos in Zelzate on Covid-19 on Tuesday, good for 228 new tests. "Actually, this should be done in every residential care center," said Geert Asman (PVDA), Alderman for Social Affairs in Zelzate and doctor at Medicine for the People. "The elderly care institutions are the new ground zero of the pandemic."
It is no coincidence that Medicine for the People chose a residential and care center in Zelzate as the location for their pilot project. Alderman for social affairs Geert Asman (PVDA) has been one of the faces of a successful group practice for years, in addition, the canal municipality with only 7 infections out of 12,500 inhabitants has a very low infection rate. "I have urged my colleagues to choose Zelzate," Asman does not hide. "Thanks to the low degree of contamination, you can really measure the effect of the tests here." He must also remain guilty of the answer to the question why Zelzate currently has so few infections. “We took measures very quickly and there is great solidarity in our municipality. On the other hand, 12,500 people live here on a handkerchief and the chance of infections is very high. In any case, we consider ourselves lucky that we will be relatively spared for the time being, although any contamination is one too many. ”

Everyone is very happy to see us. Caregivers testify that they go to work with a bang. The residents also want clarity. It is important for their mental health to create it.

Through the pilot project in Zelzate, Medicine for the People wants to urge the government to test all residential and care centers in the country. "This is the only way to take effective measures," Asman knows. “Obviously, that requires a lot of test capacity and support staff to administer the tests. Today Medicine for the people already shows that this is possible. ”



Ground zero
This is also confirmed by fellow doctor and MP for Sofie Merckx “The elderly care institutions are the new ground zero of the pandemic. Additional measures are urgently needed to protect our elderly and their caregivers. With our pilot project, we draw attention to the need for maximum testing. This is the only way we can stop the spread of the coronavirus and avoid a bigger disaster. ”

Anxiety
The residents of Zilverbos were happy to welcome the team of Medicine for the People. "We are here today with a team of 17 people," says Geert Asman. “8 doctors, 7 nurses and 2 support staff. We tested 228 people from 9am to 2pm. Everyone is very happy to see us. Caregivers testify that they go to work with a bang. They are afraid to get infected and to report the infection if they carry the virus without knowing it. The residents also want clarity. Some are patients with me and the uncertainty in those people is enormous. It is important for their mental health to create clarity. ”

Thursday or Friday result
Asman is supported by his colleague Sofie Merckx. “The figures show that one in eight of the over-80s infected will die from the virus. In elderly care it is therefore crucial to avoid contamination. ”

This is also confirmed by Anne Delespaul, national spokeswoman for Medicine for the People. “Based on the results, the infected residents and staff can be separated from the non-infected persons. For the first group, one can offer the right care and protection, for the second group preventive measures to avoid contamination. We hope that this general testing will be followed up as soon as possible in all residential care centers in Belgium. There is still very selective testing there today. That urgently needs to change. Because you can't put out a fire blindfolded. ”

The results of the test are expected on Thursday or Friday. “There was currently one isolated corona case in Zilverbos. Let us hope that it stays there, ”concludes Geert Asman.
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LAKISYLVANIA
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« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2020, 12:16:04 PM »

"A mental pandemic is approaching us"

Patients with severe mental illnesses such as schizophrenia are forced to stay at home without treatment, waiting for that one call from a care provider. Experts warn of the impact of the lockdown on our mental health. "We are only at the beginning."

A tsunami starts deep at sea, with a wave several tens of centimeters high. The movement is barely perceptible. It takes sensitive equipment and the look of a satellite to register that a tidal wave is approaching.

That is a picture of mental health care workers: a tsunami. Due to strict measures to curb the spread of the coronavirus, many institutions have been forced to press the pause button.
Group therapy as offered in psychiatry is almost impossible. Admitted patients may no longer leave the domain and visitors are prohibited. Children and young people are limited to see their parents. Anyone who may be infected with corona is separated and has only contact with a protective worker in protective equipment.

Even those who are not in an institution have a hard time continuing their treatment. Movements to the therapist's waiting room are not prohibited, but many psychologists and their clients are at home and have switched to online consultations.
Ayse (40) normally goes to a psychiatric care institution in Leuven three days a week from eight to four. She follows group therapy with a dozen others. She learns to structure her days and take control of her life. She's been doing that for a year now. Her panic attacks have subsided and the medication has been reduced in part. The announcement that the center would close on Friday of the lockdown surprised her. "Fortunately, I still had time to draw up a schedule for my daytime activities together with the psychologist."

Ayse has been at home ever since. She occasionally forces herself to go outside of "a tour". Due to past problems, her eldest daughter is staying at a different address, the youngest is in foster care. "Seeing them on the weekend is my guideline. That is now gone. I am all alone. "Every day she gets a phone call from the healthcare institution. "I miss the therapy, but I'm looking forward to that daily message: someone asking how things are going."

The most common psychiatric conditions are depression, anxiety and addiction. Interrupting a therapy increases the chance of a relapse, can worsen the complaints and raises the threshold to pick up the treatment again. This is a major concern for care providers. Dirk Van den Abbeele, psychiatrist and chief physician at the Psychiatric Center Ghent Sleidinge, saw a third of the admitted patients leave because they preferred to lockdown at home. "We can't force them to stay in the hospital," he says. "But those who go into isolation with major depression run the risk of becoming even more somber, even suicidal. There are patients we are going home with a fright. "

The most vulnerable have been hit hardest, says Ellen Excelmans, clinical psychologist and chair of the Flemish association for behavioral therapy. "People with severe psychiatric disorders are often not mediated because they are on disability. Sometimes they do not have the means to make contact online. Or they are unfamiliar with it, which creates additional uncertainty and anxiety if you ask to switch to video calling. "
Her institution calls patients every week. "It is often the only contact for them, they are very grateful with that phone." The loss of daytime activities and social contact is already burdensome for people without psychological complaints, she says. "For those who have serious, chronic problems, much more."

Health surveys show that one in three adults has mental health problems. One in ten has an anxiety disorder, a similar proportion has a form of depression. Flemish suicide rates remain among the highest in the world. And we take a lot of antidepressants and sleeping pills and tranquilizers.
"Psychological suffering is not a marginal phenomenon," says clinical psychologist Tom Van Daele. "The impact of the lockdown affects many. We notice that people postpone their request for help or interrupt treatment. But the complaints are not gone. That will pay off in the long term. "
At the Thomas More Hogeschool, Van Daele is research leader of the cell of psychology, technology and society. He sees how care providers are forced to discover digital therapy en masse. "It has been around for twenty years, but was barely accepted. Until last week. "

The experiences are variable. Many therapists are uncomfortable with a faltering connection and a client who appears on a screen. Nuances in voice and attitude, important for building a relationship of trust, are lost. Although there are also advantages. The contact is maintained. Specialized help is no longer location-specific.
Research shows that teleconsultations, if done well, achieve almost as good results as real sessions. Therapists do experience such a conversation as more tiring, and they do not consider it suitable to start a treatment with.

It is not easy to get help. Last year, the Flemish government saved 6 million euros on mental health care. Specialized and long-term psychotherapy, necessary for more complex problems, is only reimbursed for psychiatrists. But they have been over-questioned. State-funded psychotherapy can be followed at the Centers for Mental Health Care, although they also recently had to hand in 1.4 million euros. "Their capacity is insufficient," says Excelmans, "especially if you know that a mental pandemic is approaching us. Psychotherapy is now a luxury product, only for those who can afford it.

The impact of a lockdown and a quarantine has emerged from recent Chinese research. Half of the nearly 5,000 respondents had symptoms of depression, anxiety, or a combination of the two. Research published in General Psychiatry on more than 50,000 Chinese during the lockdown found that more than 30 percent reported suffering psychologically. Women, the elderly, people in their twenties and labor migrants are the most sensitive. For most people, those complaints ebb away when everyday life recovers, says Van Daele. "For others this may be the last straw. I am a bit afraid of what will come to us after the summer. "

Experts also point to the increase in anxiety, depression and sleep disorders in the aftermath of the 2008 financial crisis. "The hypothesis is that we will only see the impact of an event such as a major economic crisis or war in the longer term," suicide expert Gwendolyn Portzky. "The suicide rate is stabilizing at the moment, and may even drop somewhat. Then it goes up again. "Less social contact and less freedom of movement have a negative impact on our well-being, she says. "But the effect of the deep financial or relational problems that a crisis is causing will take a while. We are only at the beginning. And we are waiting anxiously. "

Ayse tries to stay upright as best he can. She has contacted her therapist, they have agreed to go for a walk. "Then I can safely tell my story." In the meantime, she received "very good news." "I am entitled to a social housing. For the first time in three years, I will have a permanent address where my children can live with me. "It is a step she could never have taken without her guidance, she says. "We worked on this for a year."
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Zinneke
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« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2020, 03:01:31 PM »

Van Ranst is box office against Flamingant twitter. Just shuts them down.
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PSOL
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« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2020, 03:05:14 PM »

Van Ranst is box office against Flamingant twitter. Just shuts them down.
Huh
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LAKISYLVANIA
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« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2020, 02:15:32 PM »

Virologist Van Ranst will likely be a candidate for the next election.
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Pericles
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« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2020, 08:27:16 PM »

Doesn't Belgium have the highest coronavirus deaths per capita in the world? How is that a great response? It seems like something has gone seriously wrong there that hasn't received much attention, it would be interesting to know what that is.
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Zinneke
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« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2020, 02:58:58 AM »

Doesn't Belgium have the highest coronavirus deaths per capita in the world? How is that a great response? It seems like something has gone seriously wrong there that hasn't received much attention, it would be interesting to know what that is.

We are measuring Coronadeaths in a very broad way compared to other countries who are not counting some at all. I think once you adjust for this, you will get similar numbers as France or Italy which are still amongst the worst hit.

I would say the leading hypotheses that explain our high death toll are : population density, especially in aging Flanders, and many italian immigrants, some 3rd or 4th generation, leading to a lot of travel from there. The hardest hit places are known to be italian hotspots (Hasselt-Genk metro area and Charleroi).
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LAKISYLVANIA
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« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2020, 02:37:12 AM »

Doesn't Belgium have the highest coronavirus deaths per capita in the world? How is that a great response? It seems like something has gone seriously wrong there that hasn't received much attention, it would be interesting to know what that is.
The far left is not to blame, they're not in power. Zinneke explains it very well. Besides, our government does do a good job aside of a few things.
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« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2020, 01:14:32 AM »
« Edited: May 20, 2020, 01:21:55 AM by Laki »



PVDA and social democratic party s.pa gets highest approval for handling COVID-19, followed by the far-right Vlaams Belang. The neoliberal N-VA has obviously the highest disapproval, as they're the most critical of the lockdown and COVID-19 relief proposals. Surprised Open VLD and CD&V are disapproved a lot as well, but Open VLD made some controversial proposals. CD&V made gaffes handling corona in rest homes. The parties most in favour of quick re-opening are disapproved a lot.

Vlaams Belang get high approval ratings because they're sharing mouth masks for free. PVDA has done free tests in rest homes, and has proposed popular proposals.
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LAKISYLVANIA
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« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2020, 08:10:36 AM »
« Edited: May 20, 2020, 08:13:47 AM by Laki »



N-VA: the 1% richest are hit badly
Little boy: I wish we could buy more food, because we have almost no money left over
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« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2020, 09:04:59 PM »



PVDA and social democratic party s.pa gets highest approval for handling COVID-19, followed by the far-right Vlaams Belang. The neoliberal N-VA has obviously the highest disapproval, as they're the most critical of the lockdown and COVID-19 relief proposals. Surprised Open VLD and CD&V are disapproved a lot as well, but Open VLD made some controversial proposals. CD&V made gaffes handling corona in rest homes. The parties most in favour of quick re-opening are disapproved a lot.

Vlaams Belang get high approval ratings because they're sharing mouth masks for free. PVDA has done free tests in rest homes, and has proposed popular proposals.

hyped for the fascist flanders vs communist wallonia+brussels war Smiley
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Zinneke
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« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2020, 06:05:06 PM »



PVDA and social democratic party s.pa gets highest approval for handling COVID-19, followed by the far-right Vlaams Belang. The neoliberal N-VA has obviously the highest disapproval, as they're the most critical of the lockdown and COVID-19 relief proposals. Surprised Open VLD and CD&V are disapproved a lot as well, but Open VLD made some controversial proposals. CD&V made gaffes handling corona in rest homes. The parties most in favour of quick re-opening are disapproved a lot.

Vlaams Belang get high approval ratings because they're sharing mouth masks for free. PVDA has done free tests in rest homes, and has proposed popular proposals.

hyped for the fascist flanders vs communist wallonia+brussels war Smiley

I'll be more hyped when these reductionist stereotypes are binned because all they do is drive people into thinking being a "Good Walloon" is voting PS and a Good Fleming is voting N-VA/VB, leaving zero space for either sane compromise nor new parties to come up with something original other than bland finger pointing and inventing new ways to create new mandates so our taxes fund the latest sub-federal government structure.
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LAKISYLVANIA
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« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2020, 06:45:40 PM »

Coronatax was proposed for the second time. PS made no secret they want a millionaires tax and approved it. S.pa and the green parties abstained. Other parties rejected it. Meanwhile s.pa chairman said he was open to more decentralization and another state's reform, to appease N-VA.

I would vote for MR before I ever vote for flemish social democrats, and I disapprove green too. They're too right-wing for me. Also why copy other party platforms if you can actually stick to the original. If i was a liberal, i would vote for liberal. If i wanted another state's reform, i would vote N-VA. Like for real.
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« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2020, 07:09:38 PM »

Coronatax was proposed for the second time. PS made no secret they want a millionaires tax and approved it. S.pa and the green parties abstained. Other parties rejected it. Meanwhile s.pa chairman said he was open to more decentralization and another state's reform, to appease N-VA.

I would vote for MR before I ever vote for flemish social democrats, and I disapprove green too. They're too right-wing for me. Also why copy other party platforms if you can actually stick to the original. If i was a liberal, i would vote for liberal. If i wanted another state's reform, i would vote N-VA. Like for real.

How different are pvda and ps in practical terms, aside from the obvious social democratic vs socialist labels?
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« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2020, 07:22:36 PM »

Coronatax was proposed for the second time. PS made no secret they want a millionaires tax and approved it. S.pa and the green parties abstained. Other parties rejected it. Meanwhile s.pa chairman said he was open to more decentralization and another state's reform, to appease N-VA.

I would vote for MR before I ever vote for flemish social democrats, and I disapprove green too. They're too right-wing for me. Also why copy other party platforms if you can actually stick to the original. If i was a liberal, i would vote for liberal. If i wanted another state's reform, i would vote N-VA. Like for real.
This belongs now on the Belgian megathread

Wait, why did PVDA/PTB vote against the Millionaire Tax?
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Zinneke
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« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2020, 02:52:27 AM »
« Edited: May 22, 2020, 02:59:00 AM by Zinneke »

Coronatax was proposed for the second time. PS made no secret they want a millionaires tax and approved it. S.pa and the green parties abstained. Other parties rejected it. Meanwhile s.pa chairman said he was open to more decentralization and another state's reform, to appease N-VA.

I would vote for MR before I ever vote for flemish social democrats, and I disapprove green too. They're too right-wing for me. Also why copy other party platforms if you can actually stick to the original. If i was a liberal, i would vote for liberal. If i wanted another state's reform, i would vote N-VA. Like for real.

How different are pvda and ps in practical terms, aside from the obvious social democratic vs socialist labels?

The PS calls itself socialist and not necessarily social democratic and it sings the Internationale. So in terms of labels, they both claim that one.

The PS is the political wing of the broad traditional labour movement in Wallonia and Brussels that has existed for more than a century and is a political behemoth with many wings within the party, often with cleavages relating to geographical location rather than ideology (for example, the main rivalry is often the Hainaut PS vs Liège PS vs Brussels PS). Its credo though is that it feels it is entitled to govern no matter what the electoral score as it feels it has a responsibility towards the working classes as a representative , and argues that without its presence in government the social dialogue of Belgium would be one sided towards the bourgeois/entrepreneurial class. In that sense its a patrician party, just like MR and cdH, that relies on being a government power to deliver a service towards a particular class and coalition of unions, mutualities, NGOs etc. Its why the political Right often label the PS as a clientelist party, but then MR is one too in many respects, and cdH is the worst of the three.

The PVDA/PTB - which is a federal, "unitarist" party - differs from the PS because its a relatively small, activist-based (as opposed to "higher" civil society with the PS) testimonial party that doesn't seek to govern through what they perceive as bourgeois structures. Instead, they try to build working class consciousness through local democratic action like the People's Hospitals (inspired by Chantal Mouffe and Podemos) and only enter federal politics to do what testimonial parties tend to do well when they succeed : shift the debate towards particular issues, and make parties like the PS think about swinging leftwards to counter them.

What their long term goal and vision is, you will have to ask Laki.
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LAKISYLVANIA
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« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2020, 09:33:35 AM »

Coronatax was proposed for the second time. PS made no secret they want a millionaires tax and approved it. S.pa and the green parties abstained. Other parties rejected it. Meanwhile s.pa chairman said he was open to more decentralization and another state's reform, to appease N-VA.

I would vote for MR before I ever vote for flemish social democrats, and I disapprove green too. They're too right-wing for me. Also why copy other party platforms if you can actually stick to the original. If i was a liberal, i would vote for liberal. If i wanted another state's reform, i would vote N-VA. Like for real.
This belongs now on the Belgian megathread

Wait, why did PVDA/PTB vote against the Millionaire Tax?
It's their proposal, so they voted in favour.
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