How would you describe Joe Biden's ideology?
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  How would you describe Joe Biden's ideology?
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Author Topic: How would you describe Joe Biden's ideology?  (Read 2806 times)
MarkD
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« on: April 11, 2020, 01:52:54 AM »

I rate the ideology of members of Congress according to the approval scores they get from the Americans for Democratic Action and the American Conservative Union. I don't just use one or two scores from the recent past, but a member's average score for their entire congressional career. To me, a liberal Democrat gets at least 80% average from the ADA; a moderate Democrat gets between 80% and 50%, and conservative Democrats get less than 50% average. (Likewise, a conservative Republican gets at least 80% average from ACU, and so on.)

Joe Biden served in the Senate for 36 years. ADA does not make his score from the year 1975 available on its website, and he was very sick for a majority of the year 1988, so he was absent so much that he got an unusually low score that year. So not counting the years 1975 or 1988, I averaged together his scores for the rest of the 34 years. He averaged 81.29% - close to the borderline between being a liberal and a moderate, but still basically liberal. (His average approval score from ACU is 11.8%.)

(Here are his ADA scores every year: 1973 - 80, 1974 - 81, 1975 - ?, 1976 - 75, 1977 - 70, 1978 - 50, 1979 - 53, 1980 - 67, 1981 - 80, 1982 - 80, 1983 - 85, 1984 - 85, 1985 - 75, 1986 - 80, 1987 - 70, 1988 - 15, 1989 - 90, 1990 - 83, 1991 - 90, 1992 - 100, 1993 - 80, 1994 - 80, 1995 - 95, 1996 - 80, 1997 - 70, 1998 - 85, 1999 - 95, 2000 - 80, 2001 - 100, 2002 - 80, 2003 - 75, 2004 - 95, 2005 - 100, 2006 - 100, 2007 - 75, 2008 - 80.)

What is he to you? Do you need more nuance than just the terms "liberal" or "moderate"?
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2020, 01:58:26 AM »

I don't think ideology is a good framework though which to understand politicians like Joe Biden. At heart, he is someone who believes in the status quo and in politics centered around managing the status quo. I guess that would make him a "conservative" by some definition, but certainly not by the modern American definition.
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brucejoel99
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« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2020, 02:36:39 AM »

In the middle of the pack among Democrats: supports certain progressive policies but willing to buck the left & work across the aisle if necessary (of course, whether one thinks that's a good or bad thing is another matter).


I don't think ideology is a good framework though which to understand politicians like Joe Biden. At heart, he is someone who believes in the status quo and in politics centered around managing the status quo. I guess that would make him a "conservative" by some definition, but certainly not by the modern American definition.

Eh, I'm probably a little bit biased but I'd have to dispute the notion that Biden fundamentally believes in the status quo. Sure, he's not some super-progressive, but he has proven himself to be somebody who fights for progress (e.g., the Brady Bill, VAWA, Obamacare, the Paris Agreement), & his platform being chock full of policies that'd serve to upend the status quo - supporting full universal healthcare, a $15 minimum wage, a multi-trillion dollar effort to fight climate change, student loan relief, etc. - only further proves that IMO.
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
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« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2020, 03:07:27 AM »

Eh, I'm probably a little bit biased but I'd have to dispute the notion that Biden fundamentally believes in the status quo. Sure, he's not some super-progressive, but he has proven himself to be somebody who fights for progress (e.g., the Brady Bill, VAWA, Obamacare, the Paris Agreement), & his platform being chock full of policies that'd serve to upend the status quo - supporting full universal healthcare, a $15 minimum wage, a multi-trillion dollar effort to fight climate change, student loan relief, etc. - only further proves that IMO.

That's fair, I guess. I don't really put much stock in his current platform because I feel like most of it at this point is a reflection of what he thinks he needs to unify the party (just like Hillary, who ran on the most progressive platform in history in order to pacify Berniecrats but obviously didn't believe in it in an ideological sense). Not that I object to politicians adopting platforms to pacify key constituencies - that is a key part of democracy - but I just wouldn't use that as the basis on which to assess someone's ideology.

Biden's past policy stands also don't really strike me as challenges to the status quo, although I guess you could legitimately debate that for a few. Believing in the status quo doesn't necessarily mean that you don't want to make any changes whatsoever, just that those changes tend to be piecemeal, grounded in purely pragmatic consideration, and generally flowing downstream from social changes rather than attempting to change society themselves.
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brucejoel99
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« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2020, 03:48:15 AM »

Eh, I'm probably a little bit biased but I'd have to dispute the notion that Biden fundamentally believes in the status quo. Sure, he's not some super-progressive, but he has proven himself to be somebody who fights for progress (e.g., the Brady Bill, VAWA, Obamacare, the Paris Agreement), & his platform being chock full of policies that'd serve to upend the status quo - supporting full universal healthcare, a $15 minimum wage, a multi-trillion dollar effort to fight climate change, student loan relief, etc. - only further proves that IMO.

That's fair, I guess. I don't really put much stock in his current platform because I feel like most of it at this point is a reflection of what he thinks he needs to unify the party (just like Hillary, who ran on the most progressive platform in history in order to pacify Berniecrats but obviously didn't believe in it in an ideological sense). Not that I object to politicians adopting platforms to pacify key constituencies - that is a key part of democracy - but I just wouldn't use that as the basis on which to assess someone's ideology.

True, although I'd be remiss if I didn't note that, despite the stereotypes, politicians do keep (or at least try to keep) most of their promises. FiveThirtyEight put out an article a while back which showed that, when a politician makes a campaign promise - even when it isn't a close fit with their ideological background - they actually do try to fulfill it. So, at least when taking that into consideration, it's good news that Biden's promises are to the left of Hillary's & Obama's.

Biden's past policy stands also don't really strike me as challenges to the status quo, although I guess you could legitimately debate that for a few. Believing in the status quo doesn't necessarily mean that you don't want to make any changes whatsoever, just that those changes tend to be piecemeal, grounded in purely pragmatic consideration, and generally flowing downstream from social changes rather than attempting to change society themselves.

Fair enough points. I completely see where you're coming from.
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« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2020, 10:26:23 AM »

An opportunist.
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darklordoftech
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« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2020, 05:54:19 PM »

Authoritarian and all over the place economically.
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Tartarus Sauce
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« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2020, 05:55:11 PM »

Anti-malarkey.
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PSOL
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« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2020, 09:31:27 PM »

A New Democrat. A pure social liberal through and through.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2020, 10:46:11 PM »

True, although I'd be remiss if I didn't note that, despite the stereotypes, politicians do keep (or at least try to keep) most of their promises. FiveThirtyEight put out an article a while back which showed that, when a politician makes a campaign promise - even when it isn't a close fit with their ideological background - they actually do try to fulfill it. So, at least when taking that into consideration, it's good news that Biden's promises are to the left of Hillary's & Obama's.

I definitely agree that platforms matter. The reason Bernie is keeping his name on the ballot (and I really hope that all his supporters keep voting for him in the remaining primaries, at least provided that it's safe to do so) is to have as much influence as possible on the Democratic platform. And fighting for that will, in a general sense, influence the future course of the party.

With regard to Biden's specific campaign promises, I don't doubt that he will try to pass healthcare reform, environmental legislation, and other aspects of his platform. It would be crazy for any Democrat not to. The main thing is that I don't trust him to fight for these things as hard as Bernie (or Warren, or frankly even someone like Kamala), because I believe he's indicated that he will prioritize other goals (including, and that's the most damning thing about Biden, f**king comity with Republicans). Every President only has so much political capital and so much energy (and not every President has the same amount of energy to begin with), so how you use it is more crucial than anything else. If we were in a parliamentary system where policymaking authority clearly rests in whoever wins the election, then I'd be much more confident that good things would come out of a Biden presidency. But in the US, what policies a President promises bears a much looser relation to what actually gets done. All that is a digression from the question of ideology, though.
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Grassroots
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« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2020, 02:41:00 AM »

Liberal, as in the general European description.
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AtorBoltox
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« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2020, 03:41:23 AM »

Joe Biden-ism
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MarkD
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« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2020, 10:40:55 AM »

I disagree whether "[party] platforms matter." Party platforms aren't worth the toilet paper they're printed on. They are the phoniest kind of campaign promises out there. Nobody can ever make all members of the party support every plank in the platform.
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Orwell
JacksonHitchcock
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« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2020, 12:58:44 PM »

Good to see no Malarkey here accusing him of being a Neoliberal if he was I would like him much more, but generally he leans to the left by American standards both Socially and Economically real focus on building bridges if that still will work in 2020 we've yet to see.
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RI
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« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2020, 03:35:37 PM »

Generic center-leftism with a helping of careerist opportunism when it suits.
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Nathan
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« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2020, 04:53:08 PM »

Generic center-leftism with a helping of careerist opportunism when it suits.

This. Not an ideology I'm over the moon about having to vote for but a far cry from being "no different from Trump" or a "fascist" or whatever the hell else histrionic very-online Leftists-with-a-capital-L are accusing him of today.
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President Punxsutawney Phil
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« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2020, 04:53:51 PM »

Generic center-leftism with a helping of careerist opportunism when it suits.
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At-Large Senator LouisvilleThunder
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« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2020, 10:36:31 PM »

Liberal, as in the general European description.
European liberals generally don't support mass amnesty.  Wink
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Grassroots
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« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2020, 01:31:07 AM »

Liberal, as in the general European description.
European liberals generally don't support mass amnesty.  Wink
Because in Europe a larger percent of the population is anti-immigration.
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Esteemed Jimmy
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« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2020, 12:12:04 AM »

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Indy Texas
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« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2020, 12:38:08 PM »

Ice cream, hair plugs, aviators and wearing striped shirts with no necktie.

Biden has no ideology beyond really, really wanting to be president.
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RINO Tom
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« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2020, 03:36:38 PM »

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« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2020, 07:07:28 PM »


.
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brucejoel99
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« Reply #23 on: April 16, 2020, 07:55:31 PM »

Biden has no ideology beyond really, really wanting to be president.

Yeah, hence why he ran in such open primaries as 2016, 2004, 2000, 1992, 1984, & 1976... oh wait.
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Del Tachi
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« Reply #24 on: April 16, 2020, 10:28:26 PM »

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