California rejects far-left ballot initiatives on numerous fronts

[Interlocutor is just not there yet]

  The road back for the GOP in California is to get people who voted no on 15 and 16.

Lol

[Never Made it to Graceland]

22 is extremely annoying and sad, though what else would you expect when the companies that stood to profit from it spend a quarter of a billion dollars blanketing the state in ads?

Imagine being a libertarian and being stupid enough to believe a company spending that much money to defeat a ballot initiative would lead to a positive result for anyone but them.

[SevenEleven]

22 is extremely annoying and sad, though what else would you expect when the companies that stood to profit from it spend a quarter of a billion dollars blanketing the state in ads?

Imagine being a libertarian and being stupid enough to believe a company spending that much money to defeat a ballot initiative would lead to a positive result for anyone but them.

Prop 22 benefits way more Californians than those "hurt" by it.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

22 is extremely annoying and sad, though what else would you expect when the companies that stood to profit from it spend a quarter of a billion dollars blanketing the state in ads?

It was obvious that 22 was going to pass from their well scripted ad. What's really pathetic is 15 failing, where people decided that large corporations that bought property long ago should starve the schools of funds. Shame on everyone who voted no on 15.

[Never Made it to Graceland]

22 is extremely annoying and sad, though what else would you expect when the companies that stood to profit from it spend a quarter of a billion dollars blanketing the state in ads?

Imagine being a libertarian and being stupid enough to believe a company spending that much money to defeat a ballot initiative would lead to a positive result for anyone but them.

Prop 22 benefits way more Californians than those "hurt" by it.

You did a great job imagining it!

[Senate Minority Leader Lord Voldemort]

The proposition system here is disastrous, and 2020 was a banner year for haphazard legislating from the ballot box.

For example, Prop 15 in concept should absolutely be passed. Industrial and commercial properties in particular have long exploited the property tax system (one infuriating example of this abuse are country club golf courses sitting on valuable land in the middle of cities who pay property tax rates from the 1980's). Trump has probably taken advantage of our property tax system for his golf course in Rancho Palos Verdes.

However, Prop 15 was written so that any commercial or industrial property over $3,000,000 in value should be taxed at market value instead of sale value. Because the value of land in California is so astronomically high in areas like LA, OC, and the Bay, this can hit small landowners hard, especially during COVID. You really only need to own one corner lot or maybe a small strip mall to hit $3,000,000 in LA.

If small landowners can't afford their property taxes, then the land goes on the market and it is just gobbled up by gigantic real estate firms... which is obviously not desirable, particularly because that was already occurring en masse after the Great Recession. Because the ballot initiatives are state constitutional amendments, there is no way for the legislature to go back and adjust the valuation threshold of Prop 15 to something like $6,000,000 or $9,000,000, or whatever is actually a workable level.

Prop 22 was horrendous as well. Just goes to show that if you spend enough money, any corporation can carve out loopholes to state laws for your own profit.

The proposition system enables legislators to abdicate their duties and leave helpless voters to legislate from the ballot box. And the worst part is, no one seems to care enough to reform it.

[Never Made it to Graceland]

"Under Prop 22, workers at gig companies will continue to be classified as contractors, without access to employee rights such as minimum wage, unemployment benefits, health insurance, and collective bargaining."

Moderate heroes are probably even worse than conservatives. What a victory for all Californians in a state with extreme inequality 😑

[John Dule]

22 is extremely annoying and sad, though what else would you expect when the companies that stood to profit from it spend a quarter of a billion dollars blanketing the state in ads?

Imagine being a libertarian and being stupid enough to believe a company spending that much money to defeat a ballot initiative would lead to a positive result for anyone but them.

Ok, 'independent contractor.'

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

The ride-sharing apps won. Good.
Rent control failed. Good.
The proposition relating to bail went down in defeat. Good.
A lot of good news coming out of California's ballot proposals this time.

[jimrtex]

The proposition system here is disastrous, and 2020 was a banner year for haphazard legislating from the ballot box.

For example, Prop 15 in concept should absolutely be passed. Industrial and commercial properties in particular have long exploited the property tax system (one infuriating example of this abuse are country club golf courses sitting on valuable land in the middle of cities who pay property tax rates from the 1980's). Trump has probably taken advantage of our property tax system for his golf course in Rancho Palos Verdes.

However, Prop 15 was written so that any commercial or industrial property over $3,000,000 in value should be taxed at market value instead of sale value. Because the value of land in California is so astronomically high in areas like LA, OC, and the Bay, this can hit small landowners hard, especially during COVID. You really only need to own one corner lot or maybe a small strip mall to hit $3,000,000 in LA.

If small landowners can't afford their property taxes, then the land goes on the market and it is just gobbled up by gigantic real estate firms... which is obviously not desirable, particularly because that was already occurring en masse after the Great Recession. Because the ballot initiatives are state constitutional amendments, there is no way for the legislature to go back and adjust the valuation threshold of Prop 15 to something like $6,000,000 or $9,000,000, or whatever is actually a workable level.

Prop 22 was horrendous as well. Just goes to show that if you spend enough money, any corporation can carve out loopholes to state laws for your own profit.

The proposition system enables legislators to abdicate their duties and leave helpless voters to legislate from the ballot box. And the worst part is, no one seems to care enough to reform it.

The property tax should be eliminated and replaced with a sales tax when a property is sold.

Think how absurd it is to determine what the sales value of a property is.

Government: What's this property worth?
Property Owner: I don't want to sell.
Government: But if you did sell, what do think it would be worth?
Property Owner: What does it matter to the Government?
Government: We can charge a tax based on the value. That way we don't have to call it a sales tax since there is not actually a sale.

[Beet]

The proposition system here is disastrous, and 2020 was a banner year for haphazard legislating from the ballot box.

For example, Prop 15 in concept should absolutely be passed. Industrial and commercial properties in particular have long exploited the property tax system (one infuriating example of this abuse are country club golf courses sitting on valuable land in the middle of cities who pay property tax rates from the 1980's). Trump has probably taken advantage of our property tax system for his golf course in Rancho Palos Verdes.

However, Prop 15 was written so that any commercial or industrial property over $3,000,000 in value should be taxed at market value instead of sale value. Because the value of land in California is so astronomically high in areas like LA, OC, and the Bay, this can hit small landowners hard, especially during COVID. You really only need to own one corner lot or maybe a small strip mall to hit $3,000,000 in LA.

If small landowners can't afford their property taxes, then the land goes on the market and it is just gobbled up by gigantic real estate firms... which is obviously not desirable, particularly because that was already occurring en masse after the Great Recession. Because the ballot initiatives are state constitutional amendments, there is no way for the legislature to go back and adjust the valuation threshold of Prop 15 to something like $6,000,000 or $9,000,000, or whatever is actually a workable level.

Prop 22 was horrendous as well. Just goes to show that if you spend enough money, any corporation can carve out loopholes to state laws for your own profit.

The proposition system enables legislators to abdicate their duties and leave helpless voters to legislate from the ballot box. And the worst part is, no one seems to care enough to reform it.

The state legislature hasn't been working well either though.

They've had decades to fix numerous problems in your state, notably housing costs, and have failed to do it.

[Donerail]

The ride-sharing apps won. Good.
Rent control failed. Good.
The proposition relating to bail went down in defeat. Good.
A lot of good news coming out of California's ballot proposals this time.

love your apps, do you tim?

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

If small landowners can't afford their property taxes, then the land goes on the market and it is just gobbled up by gigantic real estate firms... which is obviously not desirable, particularly because that was already occurring en masse after the Great Recession.

Actually, that's exactly how the system should work.

As property appreciates, property taxes should rise accordingly. Nobody should have any problem generating enough revenue to pay them unless property isn't being allocated towards its highest and best use. Because a strip mall isn't the highest and best use of a corner lot in LA (a 200 unit apartment building is), people either need to develop it, take the loss, or cash out and become quite wealthy while a developer takes care of the rest. Property values reflect unmet housing demand and the fact that underbuilt lots are worth so much indicates that they aren't being used the way they should.

[I need an explanation]

Most of those props where terrible. I would have voted against most if not all of them.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

The ride-sharing apps won. Good.
Rent control failed. Good.
The proposition relating to bail went down in defeat. Good.
A lot of good news coming out of California's ballot proposals this time.

love your apps, do you tim?

What do you mean?

[John Dule]

On a whim, I thought I might look over the results here a bit more. What I found was genuinely shocking.



Rent control failed in EVERY SINGLE COUNTY! Even San Francisco said "enough"!

[Donerail]

Rent control failed in EVERY SINGLE COUNTY! Even San Francisco said "enough"!

Prop 21 passed in Alameda and San Francisco. I don't believe your maps are accurate.

[Interlocutor is just not there yet]

This thread is dumb. Why was it bumped?

[RussFeingoldWasRobbed]

I think Fresno is going to vote R for president this decade,  especially if GOP doubles down on its "tough on crime" message. Just look at Prop 20!

[ملكة كرينجيتوك]

On a whim, I thought I might look over the results here a bit more. What I found was genuinely shocking.

https://i.imgur.com/DDUruVC.jpg

The map for Prop 19 (letting people choose which place gets your property taxes if you have multiple residences) is interesting. Los Angeles and Orange voted No, but most of the rest of SoCal voted Yes.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

"Under Prop 22, workers at gig companies will continue to be classified as contractors, without access to employee rights such as minimum wage, unemployment benefits, health insurance, and collective bargaining."

Moderate heroes are probably even worse than conservatives. What a victory for all Californians in a state with extreme inequality 😑

There was no way that their expensive carefully scripted ads weren't going to be successful. The bigger disgrace is that Prop. 15 was rejected despite not doing much to weaken our feudalism system of property taxes.