Rise in violent antisemitism around the world

[Comrade Funk]

Absolutely crazy and sick what's going on right now all over the world (and on this website, as I have learned today). That's the worst persecution of Jews since the 1930s and 40s during the Holocaust. Nonetheless, Israel and Jews must have a non-negotiable right to defend themselves and their country from external and internal terrorists, in light of the atrocities during the Holocaust.

ps: if you take a look at US campuses, and this is a US website, it doesn't really surprise me that there are many virulent antisemites posting here too.

I can only think of two posters since 10/7 who have said anything remotely antisemitic. One was an Iran shill, MattRose, who praised the attack and Hamas. He was immediately banned. The other is hermit, a weird old boomer lady who probably sleeps in the woods surrounded by fake crystals.

There is virtually no antisemitism on this forum.

People living in their own pro-Hamas/Palestinian social media tiktok bubbles don't even realize anymore that they are anti-semitic. But the outside world knows.

Who on here is an anti-Semite? Could we get some names?

Crickets...

Someone actually did respond but it was deleted before I read it which implies either it was a mistake or a deletion by a mod.

I deleted myself because I really don't want to get involved in this convo

[wnwnwn]

It's mostly envy and bigotry disguised as anticolonialism. Ot's not the jews fault that they were forced to be something more than peasants in the Middle Ages.

[DavidB.]

https://twitter.com/StopAntisemites/status/1721688730048582107?s=20

[Upper Canada Tory]

Thousands of Jewish people were just murdered in Israel. That's never happened in America. How is Israel safer for us than the States again?

Personally I'd much rather live in suburban Atlanta than in the middle of the desert surrounded by countries that hate me
.

This is a very simplistic mindset, because the purpose of Israel isn't only to prevent Jews from being killed. While that's part of it, it's also for Jewish self-determination - for Jewish culture to be able to continuously thrive. It's the only country in the world where, for example, the dominant language is Hebrew. It's the only country where Jewish holidays are public holidays - Rosh Hashanah is a public holiday in Israel the same way Christmas is in the US. Without Israel there would be no other country where Jewish culture is dominant.

The idea that 'all Jews should live in America because it's the safest country for them ever' (I'm not saying you're promoting this stance, but many people who are critical of Israel say things to this effect) also disregards the level of cultural diversity in the Jewish community. 50+% of Israeli Jews are descendants of Jews from the Middle East and North Africa, so It's kind of hard to move them to an English-speaking Western country and allow them to keep their Middle Eastern-influenced Jewish culture. Since the Arab and Muslim world is hostile to them, Israel is the only place where they can reasonably exist.

[Horus]

Thousands of Jewish people were just murdered in Israel. That's never happened in America. How is Israel safer for us than the States again?

Personally I'd much rather live in suburban Atlanta than in the middle of the desert surrounded by countries that hate me
.

This is a very simplistic mindset, because the purpose of Israel isn't only to prevent Jews from being killed. While that's part of it, it's also for Jewish self-determination - for Jewish culture to be able to continuously thrive. It's the only country in the world where, for example, the dominant language is Hebrew. It's the only country where Jewish holidays are public holidays - Rosh Hashanah is a public holiday in Israel the same way Christmas is in the US. Without Israel there would be no other country where Jewish culture is dominant.

The idea that 'all Jews should live in America because it's the safest country for them ever' (I'm not saying you're promoting this stance, but many people who are critical of Israel say things to this effect) also disregards the level of cultural diversity in the Jewish community. 50+% of Israeli Jews are descendants of Jews from the Middle East and North Africa, so It's kind of hard to move them to an English-speaking Western country and allow them to keep their Middle Eastern-influenced Jewish culture. Since the Arab and Muslim world is hostile to them, Israel is the only place where they can reasonably exist.

Why do a people need their culture to be dominant in at least one country? Plenty of cultures thrive without having their own country

And certain folks keep telling me that if Israel didn't exist all the Jews would eventually be killed off in Holocaust 2.0 and I just don't buy that, sorry. So if my response seems a bit flippant, it's because I consider such a view insane.

Anyways, the argument doesn't matter. Israel is here, and I don't see it going away any time soon. I am perfectly content with Israel existing within '67 borders. So Jewish people who think America is sooo triggering and unsafe can go to their "safe" space anytime they'd like. I just won't be joining them.

[Vosem]

And certain folks keep telling me that if Israel didn't exist all the Jews would eventually be killed off in Holocaust 2.0 and I just don't buy that, sorry. So if my response seems a bit flippant, it's because I consider such a view insane.

That's not quite the claim. The claim is that if Palestinian liberationism wins that Jews will be killed off (together with others). Destroying the Palestinian movement is more important in this sense than preserving the Israeli state (particularly if you live outside Israel itself), much as destroying Nazism was more important than preserving the Second Polish Republic (...particularly if you lived outside the Second Polish Republic).

No ethnicity has a right to a country; there is no particular 'Jewish right to a state' or 'Palestinian right to a state'. Israel has the right to define itself as a Jewish state and take steps to preserve that definition, much as many other states and subnational entities define themselves in particular ethnic ways; but this flows from a right that states have, to determine within particular limits their ideologies, goals, and form of government, rather than some special privilege which accrues to Jews but not non-Jews. The idea that it cannot self-define as Jewish because a Jewish state would be inherently bad or unfair in some way really is anti-Jewish in a very narrow way (and I say this carefully, because I think the hatred from the Palestinian movement goes far beyond Jews, which is why I try to refrain from calling them anti-Semites), but I'm not sure that focusing on this is helpful, because it distracts from the broader horrors of the Palestinian movement.

[Upper Canada Tory]

Thousands of Jewish people were just murdered in Israel. That's never happened in America. How is Israel safer for us than the States again?

Personally I'd much rather live in suburban Atlanta than in the middle of the desert surrounded by countries that hate me
.

This is a very simplistic mindset, because the purpose of Israel isn't only to prevent Jews from being killed. While that's part of it, it's also for Jewish self-determination - for Jewish culture to be able to continuously thrive. It's the only country in the world where, for example, the dominant language is Hebrew. It's the only country where Jewish holidays are public holidays - Rosh Hashanah is a public holiday in Israel the same way Christmas is in the US. Without Israel there would be no other country where Jewish culture is dominant.

The idea that 'all Jews should live in America because it's the safest country for them ever' (I'm not saying you're promoting this stance, but many people who are critical of Israel say things to this effect) also disregards the level of cultural diversity in the Jewish community. 50+% of Israeli Jews are descendants of Jews from the Middle East and North Africa, so It's kind of hard to move them to an English-speaking Western country and allow them to keep their Middle Eastern-influenced Jewish culture. Since the Arab and Muslim world is hostile to them, Israel is the only place where they can reasonably exist.

Why do a people need their culture to be dominant in at least one country? Plenty of cultures thrive without having their own country

And certain folks keep telling me that if Israel didn't exist all the Jews would eventually be killed off in Holocaust 2.0 and I just don't buy that, sorry. So if my response seems a bit flippant, it's because I consider such a view insane.

Anyways, the argument doesn't matter. Israel is here, and I don't see it going away any time soon. I am perfectly content with Israel existing within '67 borders. So Jewish people who think America is sooo triggering and unsafe can go to their "safe" space anytime they'd like. I just won't be joining them.

Many cultures do thrive without having a country, however it's a lot harder. There are many reasons why doing so is complicated, but specifically in the case of the Jewish people, there were many attempts to convert the Jews or assimilate them throughout history, as well as a lot of the general persecution that Jews experienced (which didn't necessarily always mean that every Jew would be killed, but events like the Alhambra Decree where they were told 'convert or leave', which is why crypto-Jews exist).

I also do sympathize with your view somewhat because as a Jew, I would never in my life want to leave Canada for Israel. For me personally, my home country of Canada feels like my 'safe space' way more than Israel ever would.  

However, not every Jew is as lucky as Canadian/American Jews are. A lot of Jews even today reside in far more hostile places. The USA doesn't have an automatic 'if you're a Jew you may immigrate here' policy (and I obviously wouldn't expect it to given it's not a Jewish country), so having a Jewish nation-state seems like the most reasonable scenario.

[Vosem]

However, not every Jew is as lucky as Canadian/American Jews are. A lot of Jews even today reside in far more hostile places. The USA doesn't have an automatic 'if you're a Jew you may immigrate here' policy (and I obviously wouldn't expect it to given it's not a Jewish country), so having a Jewish nation-state seems like the most reasonable scenario.

Between 1990 and 2012 particular religious groups -- including Jews, but also evangelical Christians and Baha'i people -- from particular countries really did get special privileges in immigration. While I need to read more about which parts of Jackson-Vanik were repealed under Obama, I believe that Jackson-Vanik and the Lautenberg amendment actually do still apply to Iran -- someone with better knowledge of immigration law than me can correct me if this is wrong or out of date -- so if someone you know belongs to particular Iranian religious minorities (and my understanding is Iran does have non-trivial numbers of Jews and Baha'i individuals, if not evangelical Christians), they do get special privileges in immigrating to the United States.

[Lord Halifax]

Why do a people need their culture to be dominant in at least one country? Plenty of cultures thrive without having their own country

which ones? minority cultures seem to be under pressure everywhere.