Bernie Sanders suggests Israel should change its strategy if it wants more funding

[pppolitics]

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) suggested Sunday that Israel should change its strategy if it wanted more aid from the United States, pointing to the thousands of reported civilian deaths in Gaza.

“So once again, the immediate concern is you gotta have a pause in the bombing,” Sanders said on CNN’s “State of the Union.” “You got to take care of immediate disaster. Israel’s got to change their strategy. Let me just say this, the United States of America provides $3.8 billion every year to Israel.”

“But we have a right to say ‘Sorry, you need a new military strategy. Go after Hamas, but that means — but do not kill innocent men, women and children,” he added.

When pressed further on whether he would support sending additional aid to Israel, he said he would have to look at what the bill proposes. He reiterated the need for Israel to cease its bombing of Gaza and find a different way to eliminate Hamas.

[...]

https://thehill.com/homenews/4294200-bernie-sanders-suggests-israel-should-change-its-strategy-if-it-wants-more-funding/

[Hollywood]

Bernie Sanders shouldn't suggest anything to anyone anymore.  Israel will get funds.  Ukraine will get funds. Bernie Sanders will have no impact on whether that happens, because he's an irrelevant figure in the Democrat Party. 

He's being paraded into the media cause he's an atheist with Jewish ancestors that can be relied-on to criticize the actual Jewish people fighting in Gaza.  He wouldn't even respond to the CNN reporter when he was introduced as a Jew.  He's always done that sort of thing. 

[LAKISYLVANIA]

Basically bla bla bla. Many words, and zero substance

[KaiserDave]

Bernie Sanders shouldn't suggest anything to anyone anymore.  Israel will get funds.  Ukraine will get funds. Bernie Sanders will have no impact on whether that happens, because he's an irrelevant figure in the Democrat Party. 

He's being paraded into the media cause he's an atheist with Jewish ancestors that can be relied-on to criticize the actual Jewish people fighting in Gaza.  He wouldn't even respond to the CNN reporter when he was introduced as a Jew.  He's always done that sort of thing. 

You just described half of American Jewry. Do you know anything about Jews?

[lfromnj]

Bernie Sanders shouldn't suggest anything to anyone anymore.  Israel will get funds.  Ukraine will get funds. Bernie Sanders will have no impact on whether that happens, because he's an irrelevant figure in the Democrat Party. 

He's being paraded into the media cause he's an atheist with Jewish ancestors that can be relied-on to criticize the actual Jewish people fighting in Gaza.  He wouldn't even respond to the CNN reporter when he was introduced as a Jew.  He's always done that sort of thing. 

You just described half of American Jewry. Do you know anything about Jews?

David Ben Gordon the founder of Israel drifted into this category as well !

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Bernie Sanders shouldn't suggest anything to anyone anymore.  Israel will get funds.  Ukraine will get funds. Bernie Sanders will have no impact on whether that happens, because he's an irrelevant figure in the Democrat Party. 

He's being paraded into the media cause he's an atheist with Jewish ancestors that can be relied-on to criticize the actual Jewish people fighting in Gaza.  He wouldn't even respond to the CNN reporter when he was introduced as a Jew.  He's always done that sort of thing. 

He's very secular, but that doesn't mean he's an atheist.

[Pericles]

This is a very reasonable position to take on the issue. The next step would then be to insist on a political solution, and at least steps towards a solution, being taken.

There is an inconsistency between supporting a regime that commits war crimes and subjugates a foreign people, and also supporting Ukraine. Biden is wrong to say that these are the same cause.

[CumbrianLefty]

Sanders also opposes a ceasefire and thinks Hamas should be removed as a major player locally.

Strangely, this didn't get as much attention from the OP......

[pppolitics]

Sanders also opposes a ceasefire and thinks Hamas should be removed as a major player locally.

Strangely, this didn't get as much attention from the OP......

This is what Sanders said:

“So once again, the immediate concern is you gotta have a pause in the bombing,” Sanders said on CNN’s “State of the Union.” “You got to take care of immediate disaster. Israel’s got to change their strategy. Let me just say this, the United States of America provides $3.8 billion every year to Israel.”

“But we have a right to say ‘Sorry, you need a new military strategy. Go after Hamas, but that means — but do not kill innocent men, women and children,” he added.

He is right and I don’t know what the confusion is about.

[Vosem]

This is a very reasonable position to take on the issue. The next step would then be to insist on a political solution, and at least steps towards a solution, being taken.

There is an inconsistency between supporting a regime that commits war crimes and subjugates a foreign people, and also supporting Ukraine. Biden is wrong to say that these are the same cause.

I don't think there's an inconsistency in supporting two regimes whose lands are being illegally occupied. Ukraine understands this clearly, which is why their government (supported by public opinion, though not to the same degree as in the US) supports Israel; the present Israeli government is much sillier but I think the course of this conflict has made it clear that they'll support Ukraine.

Either terrorist breakoffs like Gaza and the DNR have a right to exist, or they don't.

[pppolitics]

This is a very reasonable position to take on the issue. The next step would then be to insist on a political solution, and at least steps towards a solution, being taken.

There is an inconsistency between supporting a regime that commits war crimes and subjugates a foreign people, and also supporting Ukraine. Biden is wrong to say that these are the same cause.

I don't think there's an inconsistency in supporting two regimes whose lands are being illegally occupied. Ukraine understands this clearly, which is why their government (supported by public opinion, though not to the same degree as in the US) supports Israel; the present Israeli government is much sillier but I think the course of this conflict has made it clear that they'll support Ukraine.

Either terrorist breakoffs like Gaza and the DNR have a right to exist, or they don't.

We all know you are a far right extremist who wants Israel to steal all of Palestinian land.

You have no credibility on the issue.

[Vosem]

This is a very reasonable position to take on the issue. The next step would then be to insist on a political solution, and at least steps towards a solution, being taken.

There is an inconsistency between supporting a regime that commits war crimes and subjugates a foreign people, and also supporting Ukraine. Biden is wrong to say that these are the same cause.

I don't think there's an inconsistency in supporting two regimes whose lands are being illegally occupied. Ukraine understands this clearly, which is why their government (supported by public opinion, though not to the same degree as in the US) supports Israel; the present Israeli government is much sillier but I think the course of this conflict has made it clear that they'll support Ukraine.

Either terrorist breakoffs like Gaza and the DNR have a right to exist, or they don't.

We all know you are a far right extremist who wants Israel to steal all of Palestinian land.

You have no credibility on the issue.

My credibility comes from citing actual international law, opinion polls, and historical sources. Credibility does not come from opinions; whether someone is a 'far right extremist', or a 'far left extremist', or anything else, has no bearing on whether they have credibility.

Israel cannot steal Palestinian land because under international law the territory of the former Mandate of Palestine wholly belongs to Israel anyway. It can give some away for a political solution -- doing this would be wise and it committed to doing so in 1994 -- but it cannot steal anything it already has, and has had since 1948.

[pppolitics]

This is a very reasonable position to take on the issue. The next step would then be to insist on a political solution, and at least steps towards a solution, being taken.

There is an inconsistency between supporting a regime that commits war crimes and subjugates a foreign people, and also supporting Ukraine. Biden is wrong to say that these are the same cause.

I don't think there's an inconsistency in supporting two regimes whose lands are being illegally occupied. Ukraine understands this clearly, which is why their government (supported by public opinion, though not to the same degree as in the US) supports Israel; the present Israeli government is much sillier but I think the course of this conflict has made it clear that they'll support Ukraine.

Either terrorist breakoffs like Gaza and the DNR have a right to exist, or they don't.

We all know you are a far right extremist who wants Israel to steal all of Palestinian land.

You have no credibility on the issue.

My credibility comes from citing actual international law, opinion polls, and historical sources. Credibility does not come from opinions; whether someone is a 'far right extremist', or a 'far left extremist', or anything else, has no bearing on whether they have credibility.

Israel cannot steal Palestinian land because under international law the territory of the former Mandate of Palestine wholly belongs to Israel anyway. It can give some away for a political solution -- doing this would be wise and it committed to doing so in 1994 -- but it cannot steal anything it already has, and has had since 1948.

If I use force to displace you from your house, it is now my house.

Sorry, but no court would accept that.

[Comrade Funk]

Is Vosem arguing Israel is occupied? I don't get it. He can't be that obtuse, right?

[Vosem]

Is Vosem arguing Israel is occupied? I don't get it. He can't be that obtuse, right?

Uh, yes, obviously? Under international law Gaza and the West Bank belong to Israel, and if there is a sub-governmental entity there that Israel doesn't recognize (and particularly one militarily hostile to Israel, like Hamas), then that's just what the word 'occupied' means.

How would you characterize the current regime in Gaza?

This is a very reasonable position to take on the issue. The next step would then be to insist on a political solution, and at least steps towards a solution, being taken.

There is an inconsistency between supporting a regime that commits war crimes and subjugates a foreign people, and also supporting Ukraine. Biden is wrong to say that these are the same cause.

I don't think there's an inconsistency in supporting two regimes whose lands are being illegally occupied. Ukraine understands this clearly, which is why their government (supported by public opinion, though not to the same degree as in the US) supports Israel; the present Israeli government is much sillier but I think the course of this conflict has made it clear that they'll support Ukraine.

Either terrorist breakoffs like Gaza and the DNR have a right to exist, or they don't.

We all know you are a far right extremist who wants Israel to steal all of Palestinian land.

You have no credibility on the issue.

My credibility comes from citing actual international law, opinion polls, and historical sources. Credibility does not come from opinions; whether someone is a 'far right extremist', or a 'far left extremist', or anything else, has no bearing on whether they have credibility.

Israel cannot steal Palestinian land because under international law the territory of the former Mandate of Palestine wholly belongs to Israel anyway. It can give some away for a political solution -- doing this would be wise and it committed to doing so in 1994 -- but it cannot steal anything it already has, and has had since 1948.

If I use force to displace you from your house, it is now my house.

Sorry, but no court would accept that.

Unfortunately, pppolitics, I don't even think it's a goal of this war to give the people of Gush Katif their homes back. I agree that a horrible crime was committed there in 2004.

[pppolitics]

Is Vosem arguing Israel is occupied? I don't get it.

Yes.

He likes to make Israel the victim.

[Comrade Funk]

So Vosem's okay with Palestinian Arabs receiving no civil, political or voting rights inside the West Bank. Got it.

[pppolitics]

So Vosem's okay with Palestinian Arabs receiving no civil, political or voting rights inside the West Bank. Got it.

He supports ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians and Israel annexing all Palestinian land.

[Vosem]

Is Vosem arguing Israel is occupied? I don't get it.

Yes.

He likes to make Israel the victim.

Israel is the victim. This war opened with an attack on their territory from an organization with no legitimacy determined to conquer it by force.

Individual Palestinians are also victims, in huge numbers, but in a war between Israel the political entity and Palestine the political entity the lines could not be starker; I don't think there's a war on the face of the earth where it's more obvious who the 'good' and who the 'bad' guys are. It's so clear that I try to draw conclusions about other conflicts by analogizing them to this one and seeing which side is more like Israel. Many other conflicts are 'hard cases', and hard cases make bad law, but this is just not a hard case. (I've been really heartened to see people in real-life subcultures I'm part of, who previously knew nothing about this, become vociferously pro-Israel over the past month; I choose my friends and associates well.)

So Vosem's okay with Palestinian Arabs receiving no civil, political or voting rights inside the West Bank. Got it.

The area belongs to Israel under international law, and Israel has the right to use an ordinary police power there (enforce criminal law, set immigration law, and so forth). Under international pressure Israel has refrained from recognizing the area as part of its own territory, because many countries would like there to be a Palestinian state, and this is also the opinion of most of the people living there.

At the moment there is an impasse, because there are no Palestinian political parties which are not genocidal, and so there is no one to hand power off to, but neither most Israelis nor most Palestinians want a full recognition of Israeli sovereignty in the area (which is what extending citizenship rights to the people there would mean). This isn't even a polling question: when Israel did extend full sovereignty over a limited fraction of the West Bank -- East Jerusalem in 1981 -- most of the Palestinians refused Israeli citizenship.

The solution is either the establishment of a non-genocidal Palestinian state (a 'Zionist Palestine', which would recognize Israel's right to exist within the borders established and not try to change them), or full extension of sovereignty, which is impossible at the moment because of public opinion on the ground and international pressure. My guess is that over time, as the demographic situation continues shifting, the ultimate solution will be West Bank annexation by the time I am an old man.

[Vosem]

So Vosem's okay with Palestinian Arabs receiving no civil, political or voting rights inside the West Bank. Got it.

He supports ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians and Israel annexing all Palestinian land.

I'm not the one saying Israel shouldn't try to win in a war against Hamas!

(It blows my mind that people here will take a war against an organization just executing Palestinians left and right for political offenses and say the side fighting that organization wants ethnic cleansing. Are you actually blind? How divorced from reality do you have to be?)

[pppolitics]

So Vosem's okay with Palestinian Arabs receiving no civil, political or voting rights inside the West Bank. Got it.

He supports ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians and Israel annexing all Palestinian land.

I'm not the one saying Israel shouldn't try to win in a war against Hamas!

(It blows my mind that people here will take a war against an organization just executing Palestinians left and right for political offenses and say the side fighting that organization wants ethnic cleansing. Are you actually blind? How divorced from reality do you have to be?)

You attempt to deflect doesn’t fool anyone.

[Vosem]

So Vosem's okay with Palestinian Arabs receiving no civil, political or voting rights inside the West Bank. Got it.

He supports ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians and Israel annexing all Palestinian land.

I'm not the one saying Israel shouldn't try to win in a war against Hamas!

(It blows my mind that people here will take a war against an organization just executing Palestinians left and right for political offenses and say the side fighting that organization wants ethnic cleansing. Are you actually blind? How divorced from reality do you have to be?)

You attempt to deflect doesn’t fool anyone.

How am I deflecting? I stand by absolutely everything I've written in this thread and 99.9% of stuff I've written about Israel/Palestine (absent stuff like 'such-and-such will take 72 hours' when it took 48).

I think your stance is horrifying -- in particular I think your stance is horrifying because you claim to oppose Palestinian ethnic cleansing while every post is about strengthening the organizations that want to do it. (I can only imagine someone in Gaza whose family member was shot for trying to flee a warzone reading the material that you're writing.) I think people who think like you should be prevented from reaching positions of power and made to feel unwelcome in academia (and society more broadly). I think calls for a ceasefire between Israel and Hamas are unconscionable, and are the products of either ignorance or hatred. I've been very clear about these stances.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Israel should take into mind the famous snowstalker quote "Those who feed you, control you - thomas Sankara"