Best and worst countries on COVID-19 response
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Joseph Cao
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« Reply #25 on: March 27, 2020, 04:14:01 AM »

Weighing in on the ASEAN states I’ve been following – 

Singapore: The best response, and then some. Being a small, well-ordered city-state helps, even though they caught the brunt of the early wave of cases in February, and they reacted quickly and with an appropriate level of caution.

Vietnam: Runner-up. They've been pretty efficient at tracing cases and containing them.

––– big gap –––

The Philippines: Patchy response, but they’re handling it somewhat better than their neighbours are, principally because of non-governmental action in the early stages and a crackdown in the past few weeks, including declaring a state of national emergency and actually trying to provide economic relief to their citizens, unlike…

Malaysia: Our government finally tried to get its act together in the last week or so with nationwide movement–control measures, although their response otherwise has been exceptionally ham-fisted and opaque (an obvious downside of wasting the first month of the epidemic by overthrowing the previous government and then fighting petty political spats).

Indonesia: Bad. Very bad. The government inexplicably decided to downplay the early wave of cases last month (and continues to do so!), their number of cases is rising fast with a poor healthcare system about to buckle under the strain, and controlling its spread among such a large population has been justifiably difficult.

Thailand: This beats Indonesia out for the bottom ranking, if only because active negligence combined with the authoritarian streak of the official response is almost certainly worse than whatever Indonesia’s motivation for their lack of response is. Very few medical measures, almost all of the preventative nature; an attempt at price controls of face masks that failed spectacularly and also blew up in their faces; poor communication of every single measure the government has tried, including the abrupt partial lockdown of Bangkok – in short, absolutely no consistency in response – and one wonders why they have the second highest number of cases in the ASEAN region. (As of now, Malaysia has the highest number. ˇViva Malaysia!)


Relative to non-ASEAN nations, I would put Singapore marginally ahead of South Korea. Indonesia’s  problems are comparable to those of India, although their response is behind India's. The Philippines and Malaysia are definitely in the bottom half of responses internationally. Thailand and Brazil can go to the bottom together, and would, except that Bolsonaro represents many more people than the Thai military junta does and will consequently cause more damage.

I should note that most if not all of these countries' responses have also been hampered by the tinderbox that is social media disinformation, which has ranged from the Philippines' folk advice about eating ginger to more institutional misinformation such as our own dear Health Minister talking about the antiviral properties of warm water. Testing and the state of the healthcare system remains a problem across the region to varying degrees, especially for countries not named Singapore.
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Middle-aged Europe
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« Reply #26 on: March 27, 2020, 04:28:29 AM »

Germany has been more good than bad (especially in the area of testing) although in retrospect they could have closed the pubs, bars, cinemas, and gyms maybe a week or two earlier. Perhaps this could have circumvented other, harsher restrictions that are now in place.
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Blair
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« Reply #27 on: March 27, 2020, 04:58:15 AM »

Reading some of these comments you'd almost think that the SARs outbreak didn't happen...
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jaichind
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« Reply #28 on: March 28, 2020, 09:16:44 AM »
« Edited: March 28, 2020, 09:54:58 AM by jaichind »

Part of this should be the economic performance.  I looked over the current 2020 GDP projections from various financial firms as of the last couple of days (so the info takes into account latest information) and took the average of those projections by economy.  I did this for the larger economies in the world

USA               -2.1%
Eurozone       -4.2%
PRC                3.3%
Japan            -2.7%
UK                -2.9%
India              (not enough data)
Brazil             0.3%
Canada         -1.6%
ROK               0.4%
Russia           -0.5%
Australia        -1.5%
Mexico          -1.9%
Indonesia       2.6%
Turkey           1.7%
Saudi Arabia   (not enough data)
Switzerland   -1.6%
ROC               0.9%
Argentina      -2.5%
Sweden        -2.4%
Poland           0.0%
Thailand       -1.8%

Russia I suspect will mostly have its economic impact being fairly minimal.   Saudi Arabia will be hit hard due to the oil price war.  India is a big unknown.  Modi shut the country down for 21 days which will hit the informal sector hard.  India GDP figures tend to be more biased in favor of the formal sector so as long as the 21 day shut down the economy can re-open I suspect the India impact will be fairly small with the informal sector hit more impacting next year's economic growth due to another hit on rural consumption.  

Edit: A bunch of Russia GDP projections came in.  All in all they come out to an average of -0.5%. Also added Argentina, Sweden Poland, and Thailand
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Tender Branson
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« Reply #29 on: March 28, 2020, 09:31:42 AM »

Part of this should be the economic performance.  I looked over the current 2020 GDP projections from various financial firms as of the last couple of days (so the info takes into account latest information) and took the average of those projections by economy.  I did this for the larger economies in the world

USA               -2.1%
Eurozone       -4.2%
PRC                3.3%
Japan            -2.7%
UK                -2.9%
India              (not enough data)
Brazil             0.3%
Canada         -1.6%
ROK               0.4%
Russia            (not enough data)
Australia        -1.5%
Mexico          -1.9%
Indonesia       2.6%
Turkey           1.7%
Saudi Arabia   (not enough data)
Switzerland   -1.6%
ROC               0.9%

Russia I suspect will mostly have its economic impact being fairly minimal.   Saudi Arabia will be hit hard due to the oil price war.  India is a big unknown.  Modi shut the country down for 21 days which will hit the informal sector hard.  India GDP figures tend to be more biased in favor of the formal sector so as long as the 21 day shut down the economy can re-open I suspect the India impact will be fairly small with the informal sector hit more impacting next year's economic growth due to another hit on rural consumption.  

A couple days ago, Austria’s WIFO Institute has predicted a 2.5% recession for this year:

Press release (English, PDF)
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jaichind
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« Reply #30 on: March 28, 2020, 09:34:02 AM »

The trend of warmer economies doing better (India, Brazil, Indonesia) seems quite clear. Sort of does play into the narrative that the virus spreads quicker in colder environments which is why Eurozone is taking such a hard hit.
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Former President tack50
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« Reply #31 on: March 28, 2020, 02:12:02 PM »

It's worth Google translating this article, because researchers at the University of Southampton and Reporters sans frontičres have estimated that if China had a free press, the number of people infected could have been almost 90% lower. And the world would have gained precious time in responding to the disease.

Worth thinking about before you jump to quickly to praising China's response.

Libertarians, especially, seem to be shilling hard on every front that either the virus is not that bad in the West, or that WELL AKSHUALLY it's all China's fault, and people are dying on the streets here and the government is just lying. Why? Because whether you like liberal democracy or not, this is clearly an example of a time when autocracy seems to work better, and there will almost certainly be a global increase in support for "statism" in its many different forms.

While I agree that, regrettably, authoritarianism will probably rise in support (even more), the reason China performed relatively well (assuming numbers are to be believed which is a whole other story) is certainly not authoritarianism.

The successes of South Korea and Japan, both liberal democracies with press freedom and the other perks that Western countries have prove that an authoritarian government is not necessary to contain a pandemic.

If anything I would argue the reason is less of a political and more of a cultural one, with broadly East Asian cultures being more effective at stopping the pandemic for various reasons. Might sound a bit racist but I think it is a better explanation than a political one.
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Vaccinated Russian Bear
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« Reply #32 on: March 28, 2020, 02:13:54 PM »

Part of this should be the economic performance.  I looked over the current 2020 GDP projections from various financial firms as of the last couple of days (so the info takes into account latest information) and took the average of those projections by economy.  I did this for the larger economies in the world

USA               -2.1%
Eurozone       -4.2%
PRC                3.3%
Japan            -2.7%
UK                -2.9%
India              (not enough data)
Brazil             0.3%
Canada         -1.6%
ROK               0.4%
Russia           -0.5%
Australia        -1.5%
Mexico          -1.9%
Indonesia       2.6%
Turkey           1.7%
Saudi Arabia   (not enough data)
Switzerland   -1.6%
ROC               0.9%
Argentina      -2.5%
Sweden        -2.4%
Poland           0.0%
Thailand       -1.8%

Russia I suspect will mostly have its economic impact being fairly minimal.   Saudi Arabia will be hit hard due to the oil price war.  India is a big unknown.  Modi shut the country down for 21 days which will hit the informal sector hard.  India GDP figures tend to be more biased in favor of the formal sector so as long as the 21 day shut down the economy can re-open I suspect the India impact will be fairly small with the informal sector hit more impacting next year's economic growth due to another hit on rural consumption.  

Edit: A bunch of Russia GDP projections came in.  All in all they come out to an average of -0.5%. Also added Argentina, Sweden Poland, and Thailand


It'll be more informative with revisions, that is pre-Corona vs now projections, but I'm too lazy. IMF will eventually publish theirs. I'll wait.
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jaichind
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« Reply #33 on: March 28, 2020, 04:38:18 PM »
« Edited: March 28, 2020, 09:16:59 PM by jaichind »

 
It'll be more informative with revisions, that is pre-Corona vs now projections, but I'm too lazy. IMF will eventually publish theirs. I'll wait.


Good point.  I can take the Feb 2020 average GDP projections from financial firms to compare.  That might underestimate the PRC impact since by Feb 2020 it was clear that the virus will have a large impact on 2020 PRC growth but is a good benchmark to compare for other economies.

                    March 2020      Feb 2020
USA               -2.1%               1.8%
Eurozone       -4.2%               1.0%
PRC                3.3%               5.5%
Japan            -2.7%               0.5%
UK                -2.9%               1.0%
India              (not enough data)
Brazil             0.3%               2.2%
Canada         -1.6%               1.5%
ROK               0.4%               2.2%
Russia           -0.5%               1.8%
Australia        -1.5%              2.1%
Mexico          -1.9%               0.9%
Indonesia       2.6%               5.1%
Turkey           1.7%               2.8%
Saudi Arabia   (not enough data)
Switzerland   -1.6%              1.2%
ROC               0.9%              2.3%
Argentina      -2.5%             -1.6%
Sweden        -2.4%               1.1%
Poland           0.0%               3.3%
Thailand       -1.8%               2.9%
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It’s so Joever
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« Reply #34 on: March 29, 2020, 12:36:01 AM »

“China has had several outbreaks begin there!”
Yes, that tends to happen when you are a very densely/highly populated nation with a meat-eating culture. The illegal meat trade doesn’t help.

“China is responsible for hiding the pandemic!”
No, local officials in Hubei are responsible for hiding the pandemic. If the governer of Georgia hides something, that isn’t a reflection of the US national government, and the same logic applies to China.

“Western Countries wouldn’t have allowed this to happen!”
Dubious claim. Especially considering swine flu did come from the West. That being said, Swine Flu is obviously very different and can’t be compared to Covid-19. Still, I doubt the US would actually contain the virus if it started here. Heck, Trump would probably downplay it in the way people accuse China of doing.

“China is lying about their data!”
Yet another claim with no proof. While it is remotely possible that China has faked case numbers, that seems quite unlikely for several reasons. Firstly, WHO believes their numbers (No the WHO is not a Chinese puppet, the fact conspiracies like this are mainstream is appalling) China reopened their country after months of quarantine, The makeshift hospitals in Wuhan are closing, China took strong measures to fight the virus, and we haven’t seen any exported cases from China recently. The reason China beat the virus is because they aren’t afraid of self-absorbed civilians crying about any disruptions to their daily life. Unlike the American government, they can see the bigger picture and knew that heavy short term sacrifices were worth not having the virus.

“B-b-but SARS!”
America has a record of lying about things. Should we doubt their data?

“China bad, China bad, China bad!”
Okay, China bad, are you happy now?
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Zinneke
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« Reply #35 on: March 29, 2020, 05:29:22 AM »

“China has had several outbreaks begin there!”
Yes, that tends to happen when you are a very densely/highly populated nation with a meat-eating culture. The illegal meat trade doesn’t help.

Yes I forgot the EU wasn't a highly dense territory with half a billion people and that all European are vegeterians.

Quote
“China is responsible for hiding the pandemic!”
No, local officials in Hubei are responsible for hiding the pandemic. If the governer of Georgia hides something, that isn’t a reflection of the US national government, and the same logic applies to China.

January 14th the CPC in Beijing were well into the crisis and were still telling foreign journalists that there was no human-to-human contact.

Its a reflection on the culture of fear within the Chinese Communist Party bureaucracy that cares more about their neo-Confucian ideas of "saving face" that actual good policy. To not responsabilise a highly centralised, 1-party totalitarian bureaucracy that is federal only in name is pure delusion. Do you think the CPC Central Leadership isn't responsible for locking under a million Uyghurs in camps either?

Quote
“Western Countries wouldn’t have allowed this to happen!”
Dubious claim. Especially considering swine flu did come from the West. That being said, Swine Flu is obviously very different and can’t be compared to Covid-19. Still, I doubt the US would actually contain the virus if it started here. Heck, Trump would probably downplay it in the way people accuse China of doing.

The West, as in the developed North, have far greater health standards, crisis management techniques and built and funded institutions such as the WHO to counter these kind of crises. I mean we did some terrible sh**t as a block during the Cold War but I actually happen to think the standards I've listed above are a positive net gain to humanity. I don't think its a particular coincidence that when China is invited to join these multilateral institutions like the WHO it becomes a puppet organisation to their interests, because the Chinese cultural idea of rule of law and objective, multilateral institutions that judge on these things is none existant. That doesn't make them inferior to us, it just makes their current political elite not suitable for the multilateral world we are trying to create to be able to tackle these humanity-wide problems objectively.


Quote
China is lying about their data!”
Yet another claim with no proof. While it is remotely possible that China has faked case numbers, that seems quite unlikely for several reasons. Firstly, WHO believes their numbers (No the WHO is not a Chinese puppet, the fact conspiracies like this are mainstream is appalling) China reopened their country after months of quarantine, The makeshift hospitals in Wuhan are closing, China took strong measures to fight the virus, and we haven’t seen any exported cases from China recently. The reason China beat the virus is because they aren’t afraid of self-absorbed civilians crying about any disruptions to their daily life. Unlike the American government, they can see the bigger picture and knew that heavy short term sacrifices were worth not having the virus.

You know how we could confirm your assertions? By having independent actors on the ground during the crisis. Do you know who blocks international actors on the ground? the CPC.

And the Director of the WHO was elected through Chinese and allies support, and China has a large funding presence in the WHO (partly because of SARS, which is to their credit, but it still is a conflict of interest if they are pulling strings).

https://www.institutmontaigne.org/en/blog/fighting-coronavirus-pandemic-chinas-influence-world-health-organization

Quote
“B-b-but SARS!”
America has a record of lying about things. Should we doubt their data?

SARS was a warning. Countries like Taiwan and South Korea heeded that warning, they responded to this accordingly. Countries like the PRC, where the virus emerged in the first place, failed to acknowledge the textbook rule of crisis management, which is the principle of precaution. The CPC are failing the principle of precaution on the Environment too, because they are a rich, corrupt state-sponsored elite that is looking first and foremost at expanding Chinese capital in the world through the BRI, and buying up Western capital to hide from their own taxmen. These are mediocre, greedy corrupt bureaucrats, that are at the hands of a 1.4 billion country, and you are shilling for them.

Quote
“China bad, China bad, China bad!”
Okay, China bad, are you happy now?

*Peoples Republic of China, and specifically the Communist Party of China. Its important we make a distinction between the Party and the People. Yes I am going to ing oppose what I see as the biggest threat to democracy, good governance and our livelihood, litterally buying the loyalty of entire member-states in the EU. The biggest strategic threat, far greater than the USSR, that we have ever faced. But the West is too busy self-flagellating itself.

beep boop back to r/sino, robot. 
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Mike88
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« Reply #36 on: March 29, 2020, 06:47:27 AM »

“China has had several outbreaks begin there!”
Yes, that tends to happen when you are a very densely/highly populated nation with a meat-eating culture. The illegal meat trade doesn’t help.

Yes I forgot the EU wasn't a highly dense territory with half a billion people and that all European are vegeterians.

Quote
“China is responsible for hiding the pandemic!”
No, local officials in Hubei are responsible for hiding the pandemic. If the governer of Georgia hides something, that isn’t a reflection of the US national government, and the same logic applies to China.

January 14th the CPC in Beijing were well into the crisis and were still telling foreign journalists that there was no human-to-human contact.

Its a reflection on the culture of fear within the Chinese Communist Party bureaucracy that cares more about their neo-Confucian ideas of "saving face" that actual good policy. To not responsabilise a highly centralised, 1-party totalitarian bureaucracy that is federal only in name is pure delusion. Do you think the CPC Central Leadership isn't responsible for locking under a million Uyghurs in camps either?

Quote
“Western Countries wouldn’t have allowed this to happen!”
Dubious claim. Especially considering swine flu did come from the West. That being said, Swine Flu is obviously very different and can’t be compared to Covid-19. Still, I doubt the US would actually contain the virus if it started here. Heck, Trump would probably downplay it in the way people accuse China of doing.

The West, as in the developed North, have far greater health standards, crisis management techniques and built and funded institutions such as the WHO to counter these kind of crises. I mean we did some terrible sh**t as a block during the Cold War but I actually happen to think the standards I've listed above are a positive net gain to humanity. I don't think its a particular coincidence that when China is invited to join these multilateral institutions like the WHO it becomes a puppet organisation to their interests, because the Chinese cultural idea of rule of law and objective, multilateral institutions that judge on these things is none existant. That doesn't make them inferior to us, it just makes their current political elite not suitable for the multilateral world we are trying to create to be able to tackle these humanity-wide problems objectively.


Quote
China is lying about their data!”
Yet another claim with no proof. While it is remotely possible that China has faked case numbers, that seems quite unlikely for several reasons. Firstly, WHO believes their numbers (No the WHO is not a Chinese puppet, the fact conspiracies like this are mainstream is appalling) China reopened their country after months of quarantine, The makeshift hospitals in Wuhan are closing, China took strong measures to fight the virus, and we haven’t seen any exported cases from China recently. The reason China beat the virus is because they aren’t afraid of self-absorbed civilians crying about any disruptions to their daily life. Unlike the American government, they can see the bigger picture and knew that heavy short term sacrifices were worth not having the virus.

You know how we could confirm your assertions? By having independent actors on the ground during the crisis. Do you know who blocks international actors on the ground? the CPC.

And the Director of the WHO was elected through Chinese and allies support, and China has a large funding presence in the WHO (partly because of SARS, which is to their credit, but it still is a conflict of interest if they are pulling strings).

https://www.institutmontaigne.org/en/blog/fighting-coronavirus-pandemic-chinas-influence-world-health-organization

Quote
“B-b-but SARS!”
America has a record of lying about things. Should we doubt their data?

SARS was a warning. Countries like Taiwan and South Korea heeded that warning, they responded to this accordingly. Countries like the PRC, where the virus emerged in the first place, failed to acknowledge the textbook rule of crisis management, which is the principle of precaution. The CPC are failing the principle of precaution on the Environment too, because they are a rich, corrupt state-sponsored elite that is looking first and foremost at expanding Chinese capital in the world through the BRI, and buying up Western capital to hide from their own taxmen. These are mediocre, greedy corrupt bureaucrats, that are at the hands of a 1.4 billion country, and you are shilling for them.

Quote
“China bad, China bad, China bad!”
Okay, China bad, are you happy now?

*Peoples Republic of China, and specifically the Communist Party of China. Its important we make a distinction between the Party and the People. Yes I am going to ing oppose what I see as the biggest threat to democracy, good governance and our livelihood, litterally buying the loyalty of entire member-states in the EU. The biggest strategic threat, far greater than the USSR, that we have ever faced. But the West is too busy self-flagellating itself.

beep boop back to r/sino, robot. 

Hear, hear, JosepBroz!.
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« Reply #37 on: March 30, 2020, 01:29:01 PM »


“China is responsible for hiding the pandemic!”
No, local officials in Hubei are responsible for hiding the pandemic. If the governer of Georgia hides something, that isn’t a reflection of the US national government, and the same logic applies to China.


I agree with the rest of your points but having governors hide something is intrinsic to the Chinese system. Beijing has a habit of shooting the messenger, leading to local leaders hiding everything from the most trivial to a pandemic.

US governors would behave that way if our system allowed for their replacement and/or prosecution if they were ever to report bad news. Imagine if Trump had the right to replace any governor/mayor who reported a shortage of ventilators and requested federal support.
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parochial boy
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« Reply #38 on: March 30, 2020, 02:12:23 PM »

Judging by recent scenes of masses of migrant workers having to flee back to their home villages or face starvation, I think Modi's response has been, as with everything with him, utterly horrifying.
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jaichind
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« Reply #39 on: March 30, 2020, 03:03:28 PM »

Judging by recent scenes of masses of migrant workers having to flee back to their home villages or face starvation, I think Modi's response has been, as with everything with him, utterly horrifying.

Could be.  But politically it has been a great success for Modi and will consolidate his regime further.

http://www.jankibaat.com/complete-lockdown-has-made-people-more-serious-and-aware-about-covid-19-jan-ki-baat-state-of-nation-survey/16912/

Jan Ki Baat poll shows huge support for Modi regime measures to deal with virus

Approval of government response at 81%


95% support Modi 21 day lockdown


46% think the virus is a PRC conspiracy


only 4% think there will be no impact on economy


The main weakness of Modi-BJP since the 2019 LS landslide has been the weak economy.  Now this virus not only consolidates support for the regime but also allows Modi to blame an external virus for any economic problems.
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SInNYC
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« Reply #40 on: March 30, 2020, 03:19:34 PM »

Modi's response definitely ranks among the bottom of countries. But it does seem popular for now. ...and perhaps even if more die of his actions than would have died from covid-19 (latest number I saw was that 29 died from COV-19 and 22 died probably due to the migration). It is truly shocking to see the Trumpification of the Indian electorate (half think its an intentional Chinese plot???).

Interestingly, his equally poorly thought out demonetization plan a few years back was generally panned, I believe because it mostly affected the middle class. Now that he has another hare-brained solution to another real problem, except affecting the migrant poor more, it is praised.
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jaichind
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« Reply #41 on: March 30, 2020, 03:49:24 PM »

Modi's response definitely ranks among the bottom of countries. But it does seem popular for now. ...and perhaps even if more die of his actions than would have died from covid-19 (latest number I saw was that 29 died from COV-19 and 22 died probably due to the migration). It is truly shocking to see the Trumpification of the Indian electorate (half think its an intentional Chinese plot???).

Interestingly, his equally poorly thought out demonetization plan a few years back was generally panned, I believe because it mostly affected the middle class. Now that he has another hare-brained solution to another real problem, except affecting the migrant poor more, it is praised.


Demonetization was a disaster for low income daily wage laborers and I was convinced it would be a political disaster for Modi.  But instead it was a great political boon for Modi.  The reason, it seems to me, is the image of collective action that Modi asked Indians to support to attack corruption.  The fact that the execution was a disaster and it never achieved the goals was irreverent since the electorate felt that Modi led them on a collective campaign to attack corruption and consolidated around his leadership.  This virus responds of a not well thought out 21 day lockdown seems to be working the same way as it created large amount of economic pain for the poor daily wage belabors but most of them will continue to support Modi.

Something similar is taking place in PRC.  It is clear that the Hubei authorities bungled the initial response and I am certain many will get their just deserts when this is all said and down.  But he PRC mobilization to what seems like a successful defeat of a virus that they themselves bungled in the first place to become out of control will only seem to consolidate the CCP regime.  The CCP image took and beating in Hubei and I am sure that will not change, out outside Hubei the prestige and support for CCP is higher than ever.       
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Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.
Nathan
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« Reply #42 on: March 30, 2020, 03:58:36 PM »

Modi's response definitely ranks among the bottom of countries. But it does seem popular for now. ...and perhaps even if more die of his actions than would have died from covid-19 (latest number I saw was that 29 died from COV-19 and 22 died probably due to the migration). It is truly shocking to see the Trumpification of the Indian electorate (half think its an intentional Chinese plot???).

Interestingly, his equally poorly thought out demonetization plan a few years back was generally panned, I believe because it mostly affected the middle class. Now that he has another hare-brained solution to another real problem, except affecting the migrant poor more, it is praised.


Demonetization was a disaster for low income daily wage laborers and I was convinced it would be a political disaster for Modi.  But instead it was a great political boon for Modi.  The reason, it seems to me, is the image of collective action that Modi asked Indians to support to attack corruption.  The fact that the execution was a disaster and it never achieved the goals was irreverent since the electorate felt that Modi led them on a collective campaign to attack corruption and consolidated around his leadership.  This virus responds of a not well thought out 21 day lockdown seems to be working the same way as it created large amount of economic pain for the poor daily wage belabors but most of them will continue to support Modi.

Something similar is taking place in PRC.  It is clear that the Hubei authorities bungled the initial response and I am certain many will get their just deserts when this is all said and down.  But he PRC mobilization to what seems like a successful defeat of a virus that they themselves bungled in the first place to become out of control will only seem to consolidate the CCP regime.  The CCP image took and beating in Hubei and I am sure that will not change, out outside Hubei the prestige and support for CCP is higher than ever.       

This crisis is revealing some ugly things about lots of people's real attitudes towards muh Strong Leadership.
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dead0man
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« Reply #43 on: March 31, 2020, 07:25:30 PM »

NPR=why Germany has the lowest rates in the world
Quote
"We have a culture here in Germany that is actually not supporting a centralized diagnostic system," said Drosten, "so Germany does not have a public health laboratory that would restrict other labs from doing the tests. So we had an open market from the beginning."

In other words, Germany's equivalent to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention — the Robert Koch Institute — makes recommendations but does not call the shots on testing for the entire country. Germany's 16 federal states make their own decisions on coronavirus testing because each of them is responsible for their own health care systems.
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CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #44 on: April 01, 2020, 05:18:53 AM »

That figure in India for "its all a Chinese conspiracy" - depressing.
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jaichind
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« Reply #45 on: April 01, 2020, 05:23:16 AM »

That figure in India for "its all a Chinese conspiracy" - depressing.

I do not think the poll is worded correctly.  If a large number of Indians feel that PRC bugling led the disease to spread a lot greater than it should they are presented with "honest mistake" and "conspiracy" I can see how a large number of people would pick the latter.  If the choices had been "honest mistake". "criminal incompetence", or "conspiracy" I think a large number of people that choose "conspiracy" would pick "criminal incompetence".
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CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #46 on: April 01, 2020, 06:01:26 AM »

Fair comment, polling on this crisis is not an easy thing to get totally right.
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MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!
Kalwejt
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« Reply #47 on: April 01, 2020, 06:57:40 AM »

Poland's response is rather mediocre but, to quote everybody's famous nuclear engineer, it's "not good, but not terrible".

Best: China, Germany, Czech Republic
Worst: Russia, Ukraine, Italy (month ago), Romania
China?  WTF?  You mean the country that put people in jail for mentioning it?  The country that tried to sweep it under the rug for most of 2 months?

True.

Not to mention that China essentially tolerates hunting endangered wildlife that may carry the virus and selling it on meat markets that are far from observing any reasonable sanitary rules.
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Sbane
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« Reply #48 on: April 01, 2020, 10:40:21 AM »

You need to test early and trace contacts of those who test positive. Have them test even if they are asymptomatic. And when there is an outbreak, you put out a shelter in place order to stop the outbreak when the numbers are low. Countries and subnational units that have followed that formula tend to be doing better.
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Meclazine for Israel
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« Reply #49 on: April 01, 2020, 07:22:05 PM »

Singapore and South Korea.

"Singapore doesn’t allow patients with COVID-19 to self-isolate at home even if they have a mild symptoms. That helps prevent family members catching it."

South Koreans are notified when a person in their district contracts COVID-19 and they are also given details of their whereabouts.


https://www.marketwatch.com/story/what-we-can-learn-from-south-korea-and-singapores-efforts-to-stop-coronavirus-in-addition-to-wearing-face-masks-2020-03-31

Clearly, it is too late for the USA to learn these lessons and implement these systems, but the numbers at the end simply don't lie.

It is easy in hindsight to look back at the numbers and pick the winner, so I am not criticizing any country for their response to this pandemic.
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