Resist The Authoritarian Response To The Coronavirus

[It’s so Joever]

This entire thread is proof America is a failure of a country when it comes to disease response. Your freedom won’t matter when your family is dead and your lungs are damaged for life.

[It’s so Joever]

Why would we be locked down for 18 months?
Keep in mind Wuhan has only been under complete lockdown for a month and a half and their cases are nearly gone completely.
We can either do this the fast and efficient way (which will hurt)
Or dawdle as usual and experience a slow and painful year (which will hurt more)

[It’s so Joever]

These are the types of enlightened individuals who would claim “FDR is a fascist” or “Lincoln is destroying our Democracy”.
This is a war, full stop.
Certain liberties need to be suspended.

[It’s so Joever]

These are the types of enlightened individuals who would claim “FDR is a fascist” or “Lincoln is destroying our Democracy”.
This is a war, full stop.
Certain liberties need to be suspended.

Settle down there, General Patton.

At least Patton won against the literal Nazis.

[It’s so Joever]

This minor (don't lie and claim otherwise) pandemic has served as a wake up call.
The vast majority of humans are blithering fools, willing to enthusiastically get down on their scrawny knees and pray to their government to strip from them of all of their invaluable freedoms and liberties, simply because the government narrative states that it "must be done" to "keep you safe." Americans, unfortunately, are not exempt from this.
I have been shocked and appalled by how so many people are coming out as being little more than thoughtless media drones. This is roughly equally true of people on the right and the left. No critical thinking, no reasoning, no rationality. Just brain-dead hogs who will gladly be dragged along by the nose ring to the slaughterhouse. Cheering and commending their killers all the way.
What's even worse is that they will not be contempt to lose merely their own freedom, but will bully and harass their fellow citizens into also giving us up. This whole event has been a sick frenzy, fueled by depraved, sub-human leaders and abetted by armies of millions of mindless dolts.
The lot of you have no respect for liberty, and it's a wonder this nation has managed to maintain any vestige of it for so long. Our actions, our rhetoric, bears absolutely no respect or love for anything that makes us free, that makes us American.
We really are no different than our ancestors -- human nature never changes. It's times like these that make this inherent truth so crystal-clear. You -- you, America -- are nothing more than bottom-feeding, self-loathing rodents, practically demanding slavery. We're no different than the Russian peasants who installed a government which would go on to exterminate millions of their own. One can hope that we or our descendants do not some day meet a similar fate, but there is little evidence to suggest that we will not.

Honestly this country might as well close up shop and abandon all pretense of governing with basic human decency and honoring basic natural rights. We are nothing. Bring on eternal martial law and dictator Nancy Pelosi because some folks are coughing and a few people in some nursing homes passed away.

Had I said half thing things you said just now, I would have been muted immediately, just saying.

[It’s so Joever]

This minor (don't lie and claim otherwise) pandemic has served as a wake up call.

Of course we could follow your so called freedom (in real life, your rights to freedom end when they start endangering others) and it would be a major pandemic pretty soon.

Inane rant snipped.

And this is in response to the still rather mild measures implemented in the United States? Wounder what you'd be doing if they had resorted to Italian style restrictions? Probably wouldn't be writing here but attempting to start an armed rebellion...

What I really would like would be for you to experience first hand how the minor pandemic looks like in the worst affected area (Bergamo, for example) and then see if you still had the gall to pretend that this is an issue of freedom (in reality, undisguised egoism).

Americans have been spoiled by years of comfort and little tragedy (relative to the rest of the World) these attitudes will only make this pandemic worse here. I am starting to feel like this pandemic or something of this caliber in our country was inevitable, years of apathy eventually has a price.

[It’s so Joever]

These are the types of enlightened individuals who would claim “FDR is a fascist” or “Lincoln is destroying our Democracy”.
This is a war, full stop.
Certain liberties need to be suspended.

I've had it with your insane Chickenschit Little dreck. Onto ignore you go and bad riddance.

Bodies are piling up in Northern Italy as we speak, hospitals are overwhelmed to the brink, and thousands are dying in a few days!!!
You are the real schithead (watch this post get deleted for using the exact same word as you) if you think this isnt a national emergency. America isn’t special, we will all suffer greatly from this apathy and “muh freedom even when people are dying”.

[It’s so Joever]

These are the types of enlightened individuals who would claim “FDR is a fascist” or “Lincoln is destroying our Democracy”.
This is a war, full stop.
Certain liberties need to be suspended.

I've had it with your insane Chickenschit Little dreck. Onto ignore you go and bad riddance.

Bodies are piling up in Northern Italy as we speak, hospitals are overwhelmed to the brink, and thousands are dying in a few days!!!
You are the real schithead (watch this post get deleted for using the exact same word as you) if you think this isnt a national emergency. America isn’t special, we will all suffer greatly from this apathy and “muh freedom even when people are dying”.

Lol.

Over 1,500 Americans die every day of heart disease.  
Over 1,500 Americans die every day of cancer.

Also, just to clarify your misinformation: 2,503 have died in Italy from the virus since the first confirmed case on January 31, 2020.  Please stop trying rile people up by posting misinformation.

At this point, it’s worthless arguing with you or certain other Atlas posters. It’s like shouting at a brick wall.
All I will say is that you all will regret every word you said, mocking us “chickenschits” in a few weeks-a couple of months.
Our healthcare systems will be overloaded to the maximum, people with treatable illnesses and conditions will be turned away just to fight the virus. Your own personal friends, and family members will be affected heavily, some will die. You all will wish you had listened, that America had listened. But it will be too late, and soon, there will be no turning back.
America has chosen to pay a long term heavy price in lieu of a short term pinch.
I hope your freedom makes you all feel better when you are watching family members die from treatable conditions.
(No this is not excessive hyperbole, so don’t label it as such, this is literally happening in Northern Italy right now)

[It’s so Joever]

A year is probably way overboard.
Let’s just keep the lockdown for 8 weeks and then reassess the situation.

[It’s so Joever]

Also, we really can’t go off of one study that says 18 months is needed.
As bad as this virus is, it still is not that hard to defeat. What we need is 2 months of Wuhan style lockdown across the country, and gradual easing of restrictions afterwards. During those two months, a ****ton of resources must go into testing and isolating any new cases.
Afterwards we must conduct large scale testing to check for clusters, and contain those areas as needed while allowing the rest of the country to get back to work.
Once we reduce the number of cases, we can go the Singapore/South Korea containment route.

[It’s so Joever]

Off topic, but it’s kind of interesting how Biden supporters are simultaneously both the most, and least supportive of these shutdown measures.

[It’s so Joever]

I am hopeful we can switch to more intermediate measures in 2-3 months.  Hopefully there is a middle ground even if normal life can't return until there's a vaccine.

Honestly we probably can if things start to look better.
It’s good to have restrictive measures now, but eventually we will have to return to the workplace, even if in a slightly modified manner.

[It’s so Joever]

You're really a bunch of brainwashed cucks aren't you?

Do you really accept being locked up at home for 18 months?

My God, this is how totaltarianism starts

PTemporary partial totalitarianism is NORMAL is a NATIONAL EMERGENCY situation.

“Temporary partial totalitarianism”. 😂😂😂😂😂

Keep telling yourself that, you poor naive child.

It's literally happened hundreds of times, for example World War 2 (UK, Allied France) and 9/11 (just at the NYC local level).

“It’s Roosevelt, not Hitler, the World should fear!” -Libertarians/right wingers in the 1940’s
“It’s the government, not Covid, the World should fear!” -Libertarians/right wingers now.
Don’t worry, this is nothing new.

[It’s so Joever]

Nobody is seriously talking about a 18-month lockdown. That would obviously be unenforceable as well as being, yes, more economically ruinous than our society can reasonably afford.

The virus will probably stay with us for 18 months or longer, but what we're trying to do here is get through the peak of the infection, and do so gradually enough that hospitals aren't overwhelmed. There are many estimates of how long that will take, but to my knowledge it shouldn't be more than a couple months.

However, for it to actually work, we need to go on lockdown right now. This means people need to quit being babies or LARPing as brave rebels, suck it up, and stay home for a few months. It also means the state should provide immediate economic relief to everyone who needs it. If we're actually serious enough to do this thing, we'll be able to go back to our daily lives soon and minimize deaths as much as possible. If not, then whatever happens next is something we'll have brought onto ourselves.

“Stay home for a few months”.

Really, really privileged quote there Anthony.  People CANNOT stay home for a few months.  They will die,  in far far greater numbers than you can ever imagine.  We will have mass starvation and civil unrest.  You may be able to stay home for a few months, and good for you.  By all means do so if you feel it necessary.

And btw we have a bill of rights, including freedom of religion. Good luck trying to stop people from attending services for months on end.  It won’t happen.  I will be back in the Church soon, as will many others.

Even in Wuhan, grocery stores were open, so please stop playing this game.
As for your church, I don’t think god wants you to willingly infect people and violate common sense measures, but you are free to believe otherwise.  However, I will tell you this, you aren’t special, you are a part of a larger problem and the rules apply to you, even if you don’t like it. Your self comfort isn’t more important than thousands of lives. People who willingly resist social distancing ought to be fined and recorded for later (because arrests right now are problematic)

[It’s so Joever]

Authoritarians love a tragedy.

People who willingly resist social distancing ought to be fined and recorded for later (because arrests right now are problematic)

what does this even mean?  How are you going to tell at a distance that someone is "willing resist(ing) social distancing"?  Some of us have, ya know, important jobs...some of us have to, ya know, go buy food/supplies for people who can't/shouldn't leave their home.  I'm outside my home right now (at work) and have been every day since this thing started (I may not have left the house on Sunday, I don't really remember) and will be out (nearly) every day while it's going on.  If someone who thinks like you was in charge I'd have to spend a week in court after this was over with proving that I had important things to do.  Hopefully they'd believe me, but if people like you are in charge I doubt it.

...There is a big difference between buying groceries and congregating in groups of 10+ people for prolonged periods of time deliberately. Don’t even try to make these bad faith arguments, when they don’t hold weight. As for work spaces, all non-essential businesses and services must be shutdown immediately. You will receive monetary support during this time.
Not every minor infraction of social distancing will be punished, but larger instances certainly will.

[It’s so Joever]

Authoritarians love a tragedy.

People who willingly resist social distancing ought to be fined and recorded for later (because arrests right now are problematic)

what does this even mean?  How are you going to tell at a distance that someone is "willing resist(ing) social distancing"?  Some of us have, ya know, important jobs...some of us have to, ya know, go buy food/supplies for people who can't/shouldn't leave their home.  I'm outside my home right now (at work) and have been every day since this thing started (I may not have left the house on Sunday, I don't really remember) and will be out (nearly) every day while it's going on.  If someone who thinks like you was in charge I'd have to spend a week in court after this was over with proving that I had important things to do.  Hopefully they'd believe me, but if people like you are in charge I doubt it.

Anyways, since you are telling everyone that authoritarians/socialists/whoever your bogeyman of the day is, are exploiting this tragedy, let me remind you that libertarian minded people are buying huge stocks of hand sanitizer/soap and price gouging to a desperate American public. Don’t try to act virtuous, because this isn’t it.

[It’s so Joever]

That's the final straw. You have finally convinced me to go out to some local touristy place this weekend before my liberties are stolen from me. Perhaps Valley Forge, the site where freedom was created.

On ignore you go.

[It’s so Joever]

It's cute that you think everybody that disagrees with you is a libertarian.

The funny part is that, Sprout,green line , and Lech could all actually be considered to some degree communitarians, they just recognize the risk of shutting down everything to the whole community.

Exactly

As Mr R said, the consequences of the lockdowns will be far worse than the disease itself

I am sure nurses in Bergamo agree with you right now....

[It’s so Joever]

“This is the biggest mass panic in history”
The healthcare system in Northern Italy collapsed in a few weeks over this, this is far closer to the biggest underreaction in history, at least among Americans. You people seem to have some weird belief that America is special, that it won’t get bad here. Well guess what, it will!
We are not any better than Italy, we are no different than the European countries right now. We have widespread community transmission across the country, and a month of a lockdown to prevent a disease that has hospitalized 20% of the infected is now an overreaction?
We curved civil liberties over a one time terror attacked which killed about 3,000 Americans. Now it’s somehow unacceptable and “unprecedented” to do the same for possibly hundreds of thousands of lives (as hospitals are overloaded, preventable conditions won’t be treated)
Honestly it feels like a lot of Atlas posters are looking at the numbers only, without any analysis on their impacts. Ask any nurse or doctor in Northern Italy, we are not overreacting in any way.

[It’s so Joever]

You all being total nutjobs on your 18 month total lockdown is going to push a lot of people towards voting for Trump who wouldn't otherwise

Nobody wants 18 month lockdowns, read my post about a 2 month nationwide lockdown and then what to do from there.
As usual, “Anti-guvment” Atlas users are misinterpreting our arguments every single time.

[It’s so Joever]

Libertarians would rather die than have any minor social responsibilities placed on them. Shock.

I would rather go out fighting tyranny and slavery than acquiesce to it, yes. That is a judgement that is up to every individual to make. Choosing slavery is a legitimate option, but it doesn't make you more responsible, moral or good than someone who does not. It just makes you a slave -- at the end of the day, most people can be easily contented with slavery so long as the velvet chains don't set too heavy.

For a Confederate Sympathizer, it’s ironic you are complaining about slavery.

[It’s so Joever]

No one will EVER prevent me from attending mass obligations for any reason. If Pennsylvania instituted this, I will flee to New Jersey or Virginia. If all churches complied and locked their doors, I will livestream from outside the church. If anyone tried to stop me and others from fulfilling that obligation as best I can, I will have to start exercising my other rights.
...

Does this sound like a serious comment of yours?
You describe your commitment to your religion, and then end it by saying that you may need to possibly shoot people.
WTF is that?
I didnt even know you were religious. Is this another (poor) troll attempt from you?
And if you are religious (Christian I assume), shame on you for wanting to "exercise your other rights," just because you cant go to mass.

Please know he doesn’t speak for most of us religious people, who value the lives and wellbeing of our community first.

[It’s so Joever]

No one will EVER prevent me from attending mass obligations for any reason. If Pennsylvania instituted this, I will flee to New Jersey or Virginia. If all churches complied and locked their doors, I will livestream from outside the church. If anyone tried to stop me and others from fulfilling that obligation as best I can, I will have to start exercising my other rights.
...

Does this sound like a serious comment of yours?
You describe your commitment to your religion, and then end it by saying that you may need to possibly shoot people.
WTF is that? What level of morality is in your soul?
I didnt even know you were religious. Or is this just another (poor) troll attempt from you?
And if you are religious (Christian I assume), shame on you for wanting to "exercise your other rights," just because you cant go to mass.

I have never missed mass and never intend to. No one will infringe on that right. It seems the churches are closed up and down the east coast. Standing outside and streaming it is.

And you may need to shoot people over this?
ARE YOU LISTENING TO YOURSELF !!

Its not something you could ever understand.  Stop harassing people who dare to live their faith.

Threats of violence aren’t faith, full stop.

[It’s so Joever]

No one will EVER prevent me from attending mass obligations for any reason. If Pennsylvania instituted this, I will flee to New Jersey or Virginia. If all churches complied and locked their doors, I will livestream from outside the church. If anyone tried to stop me and others from fulfilling that obligation as best I can, I will have to start exercising my other rights.
...

Does this sound like a serious comment of yours?
You describe your commitment to your religion, and then end it by saying that you may need to possibly shoot people.
WTF is that? What level of morality is in your soul?
I didnt even know you were religious. Is this another (poor) troll attempt from you?
And if you are religious (Christian I assume), shame on you for wanting to "exercise your other rights," just because you cant go to mass.

I have never missed mass and never intend to. No one will infringe on that right. It seems the churches are closed up and down the east coast. Standing outside and streaming it is.

I am ashamed that at one point we ever supported the same candidate...

Seriously,
THINK ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE.
This isn’t about you, this is about American lives, and the complete collapse of our healthcare system. Learn to compromise, and stop with the spoiled attitude in times of tragedy.

[It’s so Joever]

Speaking of "tragedies" - I am reminded of the classic George Costanza quote:
"51 people?! That's it?! I thought it was like a thousand!...That's no tragedy!" [You can multiply both those numbers by 500 for this exercise.] THIS IS NOT THE BLACK PLAGUE

If you think only 25 or 26 thousand will be the death toll in America, you're living in a fantasy land.

You're really digging your heels on 25 million, aren't you? I'll gladly have a signature/avatar wager over this. I'd say 250k looks like the obvious break-even point between our two projections but I'll even give you 150k. Anything less in the US and I win (and so does America). Take it or leave it.

Again, are you calculating just deaths from Covid infections, or the systematic collapse of the healthcare system? (which you seem to like to pretend won’t exist)