Resist The Authoritarian Response To The Coronavirus

[lfromnj]

[We listen to scientists. PERIOD.

If scientists are urging temporary authoritarian measures, we TEMPORARILY adopt them.

Why are some people hellbent on getting everybody killed over "Muh Freedom"? This isn't everyday politics and rights, we are in a life and death emergency here. The same rules don't apply and as someone else said, your rights do not extend into the lungs of others.

Those temporary authoritarian measures are rarely temporary

[lfromnj]

Overall I don't believe its a bad idea to slow the infection by encouraging work from home if possible and other similar policies but giving the government complete control to shut down our social lives at will even if it seems good now will not be good later.

[lfromnj]

... It's amazing to me that so many people who are clear eyed about Donald Trump's authoritarian nature are suddenly clamoring for him to take the reigns and lock us all down.  He won't necessarily give up whatever power you give him, people.  What have we learned in the last three years?

Are you listening to yourself?
It's the doctors, scientists and health specialists that are proposing policies of "locking us all down."
And remember, it's just not donald trump that is taking extreme measures to control the spread of this pandemic. It's governors of states and mayors of cities (of both parties). It's also governments and heads-of-state of most of the other world nations. This isnt some world-wide conspiracy of the nation's leaders to grab somekind of power from the people (and not give it back).

I mean, what do you mean when you say "(trump) won't necessarily give up whatever power you give him." Define exactly what "power" he wont return to us. The power not to go to bars and restaurants any more after this is all over? Cant go to a baseball game, or Broadway musical any more?
Tell me EXACTLY what you fear here; be specific.
Because all this "authoritarian" talk is extreme nonsense.

I'm sorry that you don't think the ability to leave your house and partake in those activities you listed matters.  Many other people in this country would disagree.  You can't give a time period for the this is "all over", of course.  6 months from now?  12 months from now?  When tens of thousands of companies have liquidated because no economic activity is occuring?  The concern of doctors and scientists right now is singularly focused on saving the elderly, admirable.  We elect public officials to balance many competing interests and act in the best interests of everyone.

What he's asking you is this: WHY would the government want to control you in this way? Governments only want to control people if there's a BENEFIT for them in doing so. Kerping you loked in your house crashes the economy and doesn't help them acheive any hypothetical sinister goal. There's no benefit.

There are multiple things going on here.  We just had a primary election illegally cancelled tonight because of virus concerns.  Whatever the motives were, bad actors (Trump or other) can jump on the mass hysteria and use these kinds of precendents for their own gain.  You'd better hope to God there's not some kind of natural disaster/pandemic in November.  Trump may try to postpone or cancel the election.  And what will you say, thats fine?

Second, the "doctors, scientists and health specialists" he referenced calling for total lockdowns of the country are not concerned about our civil liberties.  They are also not concerned about the economic fallout.  They are singularly focused stopping the virus.  I'll ask it again.  What's an acceptable amount of time to shelter in place.  What if they say we need to do it for 6 months?  12 months? 18 months? We have posters on here and people in the media implying just that, and how dare anyone question it.  At some point, you don't just go, "BUT THE DOCTORS SAID WE HAD TO DO IT".  This is why our public officials need to balance multiple interests.  They don't just blindly follow one piece of advice.

Pelosi and the Supreme Court will not allow Trump to cancel the election. Delay the election slightly? If the circumstances actually call for that and Pelosi and Supreme Court agree, then sure why not.

We will lockdown for 18 months if necessary, and as soon as we realize that tjat is the reality, we'll have people coming up with new strategies to help the economy and social lives improve. Skype may become WAY more popular. Some sportd MAY start up again like MMA with empty crowds but broadcast to TV watchers. Online casinos will get more popular. Some new animated movies might get green-lit where voice actors and animators can self-isolate while they make the movie, and they can go straight to VOD or Netflix. We'll find a way.

No we will not be locking down for 18 months and anyone that thinks the vast majority of Americans can handle that is insane.

[lfromnj]

The State of Oregon today banned gatherings of more than 25 people, including churches. This is probably extremely unconstitutional. But considering the Courts are mostly shut down there's not a whole lot we could do about it. The Archbishop was not happy, but decided to comply with the state order and suspended the public celebration of Mass. It would seem imprudent to invoke a call for civil disobedience under the circumstances and, if undertaken, very well could get people killed.

I'm frustrated with the whole thing too. It seems especially severe that the state can shut down activities explicitly protected in the constitution while allowing commerce to largely continue. But here we are waiting for the doom. I wonder how people of centuries past felt waiting out plagues. I bet many of them still went to church. But alas that's not a priority these days.

As somber as is the above, it seems reckless, even indecent, to consider going out to a bar or restaurant with things in this state. If we have a fund to make up whatever lost revenue local businesses face from this, I would gladly put in my couple hundred dollars or whatever I would have spent during the quarantines. I doubt something like that will be organized though. What's harder is the isolation of living at home, working at home, church banned, all social functions cancelled etc etc. I hope we can all grow in virtue from this experience and become less selfish because of not having our way for a while. This is a good time to pray for our country and all those affected by this, and confess and do penance for our sins as best as we are able without the sacraments.

One idea to continue to support local businesses is to buy gift cards for that business right now so they can keep the cash flow up.

[lfromnj]

Oh yes the temporary measures just like the T in TSA stands for temporary
or the PATRIOT Act .

Stop using the arguments everything is temporary, its very important to keep an eye out for government trying to snatch power.

[lfromnj]

You're really a bunch of brainwashed cucks aren't you?

Do you really accept being locked up at home for 18 months?

My God, this is how totaltarianism starts

PTemporary partial totalitarianism is NORMAL is a NATIONAL EMERGENCY situation.

We're going to lose two years of our lives, we'll all be mentally ill at the end of this and their won't be any jobs at the end of this! We'll end up in homeless shelters at the end! Is that worth it?

We won't all be mentally ill and despite a high unemployment rate there will be many jobs. Governments have already commited im some countries to delaying and cancelling evictions and mortgage defaults. You are fake news.

Im sure cancelling evictions and mortgage defaulting for 18 months will have absolutely no ill effects.

[lfromnj]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eXWhbUUE4ko

[lfromnj]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schenck_v._United_States
National emergency arguments often end up like this.

[lfromnj]

It's cute that you think everybody that disagrees with you is a libertarian.

The funny part is that, Sprout,green line , and Lech could all actually be considered to some degree communitarians, they just recognize the risk of shutting down everything to the whole community.

[lfromnj]

Let’s be honest here, a large number of the “anti-authoritarian” posters who are against these lockdown measures seem more concerned about inconveniences to their own lives as opposed to actual authoritarianism. That isn’t everyone, but some posters definitely seem to be more concerned about themselves than, well, authoritarianism.

I am 100% chilling here lol and not super upset about current circumstances at a personal level but more worried as a whole.

[lfromnj]

Read the article and most of it is pretty bad but lol at us rejecting asylum seekers with coronavirus.
Anyway I was just fear mongering of course and nothing bad could ever happen during emergencies.

[lfromnj]

https://www.texastribune.org/2020/03/23/texas-stops-most-abortions-during-coronavirus-outbreak/
Im not particular about abortion itself being a right but it is a right according to the supreme court, and we shouldn't be breaking rights like that.

[lfromnj]

Disturbing stories starting to come in.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/maine-residents-try-force-quarantine-out-towners-cutting-down-tree-n1171596

Vigilantes in Maine cut down a tree in an attempt to quarantine two individuals they suspected of being infected.  They had no symptoms, they were simply from out of state.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-police-turning-parts-of-uk-into-dystopia-after-prosecuting-people-driving-due-to-boredom-and-shoppers-11965903

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-derbyshire-52095857

Police in the UK have been citing people for offenses such as, "out for a drive due to boredom", and "multiple people from the same household going to the shops for non-essential items".  In other areas, they've used drones to film people outside on walks and dyed a lagoon black.

WTF I am literally doing that, Yes I get that I may slightly increase infection risk at a gas station but I used mobile pay when i needed to refill 3 days ago my local gas station so nothing was touched.(NJ is clerk mandatory)

This is disgusting.

[lfromnj]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/house-commons-covid-emergency-bill-1.5507499

Last week.

[lfromnj]

Weird the article talks about gun shops but not about abortion clinics.

[lfromnj]

https://www.sfexaminer.com/news/sf-police-issue-first-citation-for-violating-stay-at-home-order-to-abortion-protester/?fbclid=IwAR0ArKzlS5lYtEYv_1ydGf4iWITGMXlrU9SFUBgYJFG_Ot9p2yN6gBNID5M
Seems weird the First citation was for an abortion protestor, Suspicious at the least and could show abuse of the order to go against certain types of speech, although not certain.

[lfromnj]

https://www.sfexaminer.com/news/sf-police-issue-first-citation-for-violating-stay-at-home-order-to-abortion-protester/?fbclid=IwAR0ArKzlS5lYtEYv_1ydGf4iWITGMXlrU9SFUBgYJFG_Ot9p2yN6gBNID5M
Seems weird the First citation was for an abortion protestor, Suspicious at the least and could show abuse of the order to go against certain types of speech, although not certain.

Literally warned on Wednesday before being ticketed on Thursday. But yeah, "suspicious" indeed.

Yes the fact that a 90% Liberal county's FIRST citation for violating an order is against a Conservative position seems suspicious, im not saying the guy wasn't dumb and under equal application of the law he would obviously still be cited, but the fact its the first one is still a bit suspicious to me.